Class rebalance ideas for pyro and spy

[T. Rex]

Been a while since I posted anything about balanceing for TF2, last time I did it it was pre-jungle inferno. This will not be touching on the balance of individual weapon unlocks, mainly cause that would get lengthy too quickly but also cause that's a discussion that should probably follow after balancing the core of the classes themselves. It also won't address balancing for specific modes like MvM though some both arguably need some tweaking there. Also why I'm not discussing Heavy is mainly due to personally having throuble thinking of a good way to buff him, even if I think he definitely should be buffed in some way. With that all said, here are some ideas:

Pyro
Base Movement Speed: Change from 100% to 107%. (Reasoning: A close range class that is less mobile than three classes (five if you count sticky jumping demos and rocket jumping soldiers), and only outruns three classes (that would be including soldier and demo who both have other huge mobility options) and one of those is his direct counter (heavy has more health and does more damage letting him win in direct fights and has enough health to easily tank afterburn). At least make it keep up with the medic and more importantly the spy as well as outrun sniper and engineer should make its close range be not quite as big of a problem and help it in several different roles or scenarios.)

All Flamethrower Weapons: +7,6% damage (from 13 to 14 damage per damage tick at point blank range, and from 6,5 to 7 damage per tick at flamethrower’s max range). (Reasoning: Current dps-output still struggles somewhat despite the minor point-blank range damage buff, in part due to the significant increase in the damage fall off it had with the damage buff. Increasing damage output slightly more should improve the performance of pyro’s primary and help emphasize its specialist role as close range dps.)
--------
Spy
Disguising: When disguised add 20% damage resistance (does not stack with cloaks damage resistance). (Reasoning: Giving the same damage resistance as when cloaked should help increase a Spy’s survival chance without making him better in combat situation. To avoid exploitation it doesn’t stack with cloak.)

Cloaking: Change base time for staying cloaked at full cloak from 9 seconds to 10 seconds. Change decloaking from taking 2 seconds to 1 second (except for the Dead Ringer). (Reasoning: Not a large difference in terms of cloak duration but can be vital for some pro spies possibly. As for the faster decloaking, it means there is a smaller time that enemy team can notice him decloaking and also means a spy can start taking actions faster after choosing to decloak, however as unfavourable decloaking is one of the big things balancing the Dead Ringer it keeps the old decloaking speed.)
------
Input is apreciated

[Klogg]

Flamethrowers being too weak?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztVMib1T4T4
Delet.

[T. Rex]

@klogg Flamethrower is currently only with 5 dps higher than stock scattergun when at point blank range, at mid range the scattergun can relatively reliably have greater dps, and flamethrower can't get any further than at best mid range. Additionally Scattergun has the extra advantage of having its damage front loaded which potentially quickly take out targets before they can response rather than flamethrower's steady stream giving opponents much more time to respond.

That was a quick comparison between Pyro's flamethrower and Scout's scattergun, this isn't even comparing it to something insane like heavy's minigun damage output nor Soldier's or Demoman's damage output who are better known for their high damage.

[Klogg]

Originally posted by Franklin D. Roosevelt:

@klogg Flamethrower is currently only with 5 dps higher than stock scattergun when at point blank range, at mid range the scattergun can relatively reliably have greater dps, and flamethrower can't get any further than at best mid range. Additionally Scattergun has the extra advantage of having its damage front loaded rather than flamethrower's steady stream giving opponents much more time to respond.

That was a quick comparison between Pyro's flamethrower and Scout's scattergun, this isn't even comparing it to something insane like heavy's minigun damage output nor Soldier's or Demoman's damage output who are better known for their high damage.

Buffing a Pyro's weapon due to it being "weaker" compared to a Scout's weapon doesn't seem like the best solution to me.

[eat scat #KillTF2]

If they fixed flamethrower particles I'd be fine with this

[76561198153579493]

U CANT BALANCE THOSE CLASSES ITS IMPOSSIBLE
IF U TRY TO NERF OR BUFF PYRO U WILL BREAK THE CLASS
SAME FOR SPY EXPECT U CAN MAKE IT EVEN WORSE

[T. Rex]

@Klogg So, what would you personally think be a better idea? I'm open for suggestion, I just see that as long as Pyro's primary can't compete with other primary's in the one specialized role its supposed to have Pyro will remain unable to compete with other classes at higher level of play.

[Discount Sam Fisher]

Hurt de durr pyro week Volvo plox buff pyro

[Flavor Town]

Originally posted by Executioner:

U CANT BALANCE THOSE CLASSES ITS IMPOSSIBLE
IF U TRY TO NERF OR BUFF PYRO U WILL BREAK THE CLASS
SAME FOR SPY EXPECT U CAN MAKE IT EVEN WORSE

caps lock is on

[Discount Sam Fisher]

But on a serious note: pyro has no reload restriction, his flame damage are particle based so seizures deal more dmg than direct aim.
So yeah ♥♥♥♥ pyro

[Klogg]

Originally posted by Franklin D. Roosevelt:

@Klogg So, what would you personally think be a better idea? I'm open for suggestion, I just see that as long as Pyro's primary can't compete with other primary's in the one specialized role its supposed to have Pyro will remain unable to compete with other classes at higher level of play.

I suggest we give Spy a buff or two. Meanwhile, the Pyro should "git fixd", neither buffed, nor nerfed. Just fixed.

[76561198153579493]

Originally posted by Flavor Tøwn:

Originally posted by Executioner:

U CANT BALANCE THOSE CLASSES ITS IMPOSSIBLE
IF U TRY TO NERF OR BUFF PYRO U WILL BREAK THE CLASS
SAME FOR SPY EXPECT U CAN MAKE IT EVEN WORSE

caps lock is on

cant balance those classes its impossible
if u try to nerf or buff the pyro u will break the class
same for spy expect u can make it even worse

[Flavor Town]

Originally posted by Executioner:

Originally posted by Flavor Tøwn:

caps lock is on

cant balance those classes its impossible
if u try to nerf or buff the pyro u will break the class
same for spy expect u can make it even worse

That’s not true in the slightest

[76561198153579493]

Originally posted by Flavor Tøwn:

Originally posted by Executioner:

cant balance those classes its impossible
if u try to nerf or buff the pyro u will break the class
same for spy expect u can make it even worse

That’s not true in the slightest

that is pretty much the true just leave them at the current state and dont touch them no 1 is that smart to figure out to completly fix the class oh and by the way u cant its imposible the class is made not to be balanced at all same for both

[Flavor Town]

Originally posted by Executioner:

Originally posted by Flavor Tøwn:

That’s not true in the slightest

that is pretty much the true just leave them at the current state and dont touch them no 1 is that smart to figure out to completly fix the class oh and by the way u cant its imposible the class is made not to be balanced at all same for both

Did I have a stroke or is that actually how you typed that?

[76561198153579493]

Originally posted by Flavor Tøwn:

Originally posted by Executioner:

that is pretty much the true just leave them at the current state and dont touch them no 1 is that smart to figure out to completly fix the class oh and by the way u cant its imposible the class is made not to be balanced at all same for both

Did I have a stroke or is that actually how you typed that?

should have released u would troll