GRADUAL MOVE IDEAS

[Les]

Hi all,

In this review, there is an interesting idea with gradual move option:
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197968907104/recommended/431700?tscn=1504786481

I will copy & paste the important bits, as we might be on something interesting:

• Units can not walk around a corner, which is annoying. Instead of just the initial walking circle, the actual distance walked should be counted. At the very least, units should be able to walk as often as they want until their range is "used up" or they did some action.
  
  
• But how would you implement shield walls then? I mean the scenario, where unit just goes around your shield wall and stabs your ranged in the back.
  
  
• That is what usually zones of control are used for in one form or another. As soon as a unit is in another's zone of control, "something bad" happens when they try to move out. Attacks of opportunity (like in DnD, Pillars of Eternity, etc.) are probably the most common.
  
  
• That would even allow some additional skills of certain units to have "something extra bad" happen when moving away.
  
  
• Another, maybe easier to balance, idea would be to generally allow such free movement with a usable distance, but when moving away from an enemy that is in melee range, only one movement is allowed (as it is currently).
  
  
• Zone controls is a difficult concept in grid-less environment. Opportunity attacks are doable. However, it sill doesn't solve fast unit moving around your shield wall.

This is something I am scratching my head for a long time, so maybe more brains will do better :-)

Any ideas are really welcome.

Les

[TheSHEEEP]

I think it is okay if fast moving units can move around a shield wall eventually (with some kind of zone of control implemented).

After all, that is pretty much the purpose of fast-moving units.

Right now, some of the fastest are relatively bad since they have little HP and not really much to make up for it (like harpies).

[Les]

How about, instead of giving units speed, give them moving uniformed segments?

For example, footman and most of the units, will move only 2 segments, slow unit will move a single segment, while knight could move 3 (or maybe 4) segments?

As zone of control we could have use melee range and make sure the move ends if unit enters there

I am just trying to imagine how would that work.

[zakblood]

"For example, footman and most of the units, will move only 2 segments, slow unit will move a single segment, while knight could move 3 (or maybe 4) segments?" would be worth a test to see how it pans out, but on hols for 2 weeks so a no go atm for me, back the 23rd etc so more time to think and plan :)

[Les]

Oh, it's not for now.

Now I have angry supervisor which asks what the heck was I doing for the last couple of months instead of writing my dissertation :-D

[willsama974]

How about updating the movement range circle as the player moves his unit around?
The circle would get smaller as you move and yet you can still prepare your movement and stop midway if required for x reason).

That leads to Zone of Control:

How about granting that as a passive for any melee unit having a regular size or bigger (keeping range/caster/small creatures like they are right now)?

Flying creatures should benefit from those rules as well (ignoring ZoC seems ok).

That ZoC should obviously be seen easily (toggle perhaps?) around all units at once. The area covered by the ZoC could also be modified by skills/weapons/traits...
Some serious food for Movement and ZoC skills and perks^^

All this stuff might require a beta branch on one of the games at least, to keep a stable and balance game while doing testing.
Would gladely help testing if the time comes.

[Les]

Hey, it's something to play with definitely :-)

It's on TO-DO list, just cannot give any timeline

[Les]

Hey, I have tuned geometry a lot recently - units can squeeze between allies, can go around corners better etc. I think it's working much better now - maybe segmented move is not needed anymore?

Opportunity attacks are in development.

[father nurgle]

"Skulls of the Shogun" uses a system where as you move your remaining range shrinks such as willsama974 suggested. "Valkyria Chronicles" has a similar idea as well.

From memory in AoF2 the gap between units had to be large enough to fit your unit, which was difficult to judge. It seems better in AoF3. I personally like the straight line movement because you have to carefully plan your positioning, though it takes a bit of getting used to.

[Les]

All games were updated to have better geometry :-)

On practical note - there is support already on segmented move in Time Shift spell, but AI would need to refactored a lot to take advantage of that.

It's something I plan to tackle at some stage, just don't know when.

[willsama974]

I can really feel the change (for AoF1n2) for the movement ability to "turn corners" and the space of each unit feel more accurate!

[SpiralRazor]

Another idea for gradual move...and im not sure its doable under the engine, is my-turn-your-turn movement. Id move one or two units and the AI would move one or two units....maybe something with Initiative as a stat.....eh...im probably over reaching here. Hmm...maybe certain factions gain an initiative bonus as a whole.

[Les]

SpiralRazor a écrit :

Another idea for gradual move...and im not sure its doable under the engine, is my-turn-your-turn movement. Id move one or two units and the AI would move one or two units....maybe something with Initiative as a stat.....eh...im probably over reaching here. Hmm...maybe certain factions gain an initiative bonus as a whole.

Quite difficult to be honest. Especially AI will be difficult to refactor into that so it still behaves sensible and keep formation.

The initiative is kind of already into factions - for example humans have the most tactical options and will usually try to control battlefield, while playing slow dwarves is pretty much all about holding shield wall and process one enemy at time.

Forest is very good at taking tactical options from opponent with its entanglements and dryad's ensnaring attacks.

There was a lot of work put into factions, but currently heroes are stealing the show and it's not that much visible as heroes can use really almost all skills. In time, I think we will refactor AOF into more strategic game and then the distinctive features of faction will be more highlighted.

The next bit are procedurally generated battles (for grinding), then I will check how to fit fatigue and salaries into all of this.Then we will see :-)

[SpiralRazor]

Well...i dont have as much issue with Hero's being spotlighted. After all, if any of them die you uh...lose.

Forest has good crowd control, aye. Humans can get a ton of mass slow though as well.

Also...I kinda have to disagree a bit. In my current playthrough, my enslaved units are the spotlights. Necromancer and Magus steal the show currently:). Nairi and Balvar are there just to lend support while Firestorms and Chain Lightings/Disintegrate rage. All the new units that are available go a long way towards evening out the power curves.

[Les]

Ah, true - I am still forgetting that you are using items on all units. Then you are right - you can do crazy combos like this and blast your way :-)

Generally, damage spells are very powerful but also burn mana fast. Then you either equip units with mana items or give them lots of potions.

I tend to make Balvar high damage dealer (works nicely with his Double Attack and high speed) and battlemage out of Nairi. Lexa tends to get summoning spells and some support spells.

How does your army configuration look like?

[SpiralRazor]

Currently I have Balvar, Gunther, Nairi and Lexa as hero units. Balver has been set up with movement and tank items. I primarily used him to tank as many hits as the AI will direct, and steal every item except for potions. His mass movement speed makes him a very good thief and you can attack once and still steal an item..I went the warrior path on him for even more tank. For weapons he has Jade sword/Vampire kiss. Balver also carries a Warhorn, for those battles that i can afford to waste a turn using it.

Nairi is mostly just launching fireballs and bolts with a fire wand, and keeps my living troops healed up with greater heal. Moderate defenses, i think i have def 6 or 7 on her but many resistances. She is also my very early game Undead Controller, with the Bone Candle you can get early on allowing you to nab those 2 banshees and a Bone Golem from near the beginning of the game.

Depending on the battle, Lexa either drops an immediate cauldron if im defending, or a Mass stone skin if the battle will be mobile or attacking. Lexa's Cauldron is pretty key to most of my strats, since i am quite magic heavy. After that its a rain of mass black widows or mass slows depending on unit type and the occasional frostbolt. I still have a Sleep staff on her lol. I dont use her to summon except for cauldron. She has a phase cape and speed ring to reposition. Shes almost purely my buffer/debuffer.

Gunther requires a *significant* amount of XP when you pick him up, and he has quite a skill list with several very expensive skills. When i got him i gave him Shimmer, Crystal Shield and Armour of Haste, which he all still has. Plan on giving him dragonscale when i have the funds. Pretty much made it so that he can run out and disable anything with a spellbar, and be able to take some hits on the way there.....I dont have nearly enough skills bought to figure out what his prime role is going to be yet lol..

Ah..but now for the good stuff!:

That banshee I captured early on was kitted out with an early game random fire wand find. I sunk a bunch of +MP items on her and always used mana and blood vials..Turns out to work *very* well with all the resistances and movement speed of 10. I found a Tear of God mid game and just upgraded her with a Dark Elves Staff...and now she melts faces off lol. very high defence for a caster, base 10. Early on she is too squish to risk in melee.

Enslaved a Necromancer in the one tomb...completely kitted him out with Crown of the Dead, Book of the Dead, Bone Armor, Necromancers Phylactery, Fire Wand and some +MP items.

Enslaved a Magician in the first battle where they appear. Kitted him with Golden Wand, crystal armor, amulet of life, and some +MP items. Nesting doll helps with his lowish morale, but chain lightning/fireball and mass stone skin spam really does some work.

Bought a Chaos Cart from the Freak Show once I had it all completed. Soo many good units in the Museum lol...its really like a candy store. With Lexa's Cauldron this thing can pump out Imps like no tomorrow lol....I passed it the fire want my banshee had and now it just spits out Imps or Fire spells depending on what the resistances are like. Its a bit squishy in the HP department being a mage, but if you kit it out with Staff of Striking and get some good armor etc man....that thing can just tear through living troops with all of its proc on hit effects. Im rolling it as a caster for now but once i buy up its skill tree im converting it to full melee! Its pretty much the only mage unit ive seen so far that i WOULD use Staff of Striking on lol. I think its a real swiss army knife and probably very underrated by most players.

For tanks I have 3 Ents for pure meatshield. They are kitted out with various equipment but really just there to auto entangle and suck up hits with there regen and relatively high defences. All have rings of speed and life potion.

I have that early game Bone Golem which took a HELL of a long time to level even with a study book, but im hoping it pays off when i have it skilled out. Its pretty slow and the lack of any useable equips except for artifacts makes it tough to get XP on. On the other hand, being both undead and a construct it has quite a few immunities. I put an All Seeing Eye on it to avoid the worst debuffs. Im sure theres more stuff to put on it, but all ive found of use is the Demonic Flower, Lucky Horseshoe and Study book. Necro can resurrect it though if it ever does go down.

I have two fast attackers, a Debuff oriented Ghoul with Barb King crown, skull belt, giant belt, shard sword and crystal shield. Primarily its there to land disease debuffs and eat corpses to prevent them from being raised or resurrected. The other is a Shade with dwarven sword, wolf shield, anti magic ring, vial of blood and brutes brew...with an amazing Phase range of 18...it makes it quite easy to get off backstabs or go straight to a mage and wreck there day with magic burn. Also has enough defenses to survive anything but a concerted attack.

Currentl the only dedicated ranged unit i have is an enslaved Evil Eye from early on...Its either one of them or the Wyvern...and having a ranged paralyze with magic burn and magic attack/ fire strike is amazing lol. Its also pretty accurate for a mid range archer. The only equip it has is All Seeing Eye.


I have a bunch of from other Enslaves or Plants, including one of those Octopod guys..whom i thought would have been very cool..but not so much after trying to use it lol... Theres enough units and stuff to equip to do a very viable line up just about any way you like to play though, kudos!

When getting any new character, i try to get a Ring of Scholars, Scholars amulet and a Study book on it..or at least as much as i can equip. Helps a ton!!