"Dead-end situations in game play were removed. " - Much disappointment.

[BurlsoL]

This game was made in the 90's, before the era where everything had a tutorial and you were guided through with a neatly laid out trail of breadcrumbs. This was also made before the age of the internet where you either had to have friends, buy a hint book, or just sit there trying to figure things out.

Now, not only can anyone just pull up a gamefaqs walkthrough when they get stuck, but they are also able to completely ignore the numerous parts of the game where you won't be able to progress because you used an item on the wrong thing. This was an acceptable mechanic in the golden age of point and clicks as a means of discouraging the behavior of using items on everything randomly in order to progress. This made you have to stop and think about solutions to puzzles and maintain more than a single save. This was acceptable even before the age when you could get a solution to any part of the game within seconds of searching on google. Sad to see an old game revived and dumbed down for the sake of the new generations.

This one line completely killed my interest in purchasing this updated version of the game. Better to just buy an old copy off ebay or amazon and run it through dosbox if you want the game as it was intended.

[Killbomb]

Getting yourself into a no-win situation that you don't discover until hours later is a huge waste of time and I'm glad that part of adventure games has disappeared. Killing your character off after doing something that puts the game into an unwinnable state is perfectly fine though because at least you know what not to do next time with much less time wasted...unless you haven't saved recently that is.

Games should never rise above Tough on the scale linked below in my opinion...

http://www.ifwiki.org/index.php/Cruelty_scale

[quasardw]

Dev here. The couple of situations that were fixed being referred to here were unintentional oversights, as confirmed by the original game's developers. These weren't minor dead ends, these were a couple of game killing situations 90% of the way into the game where, if you didn't pick up an inconsequential item a couple hours earlier, and didn't have an early enough save, you'd have to restart the entire game.

[BurlsoL]

Originally posted by Killbomb:

Getting yourself into a no-win situation that you don't discover until hours later is a huge waste of time and I'm glad that part of adventure games has disappeared. Killing your character off after doing something that puts the game into an unwinnable state is perfectly fine though because at least you know what not to do next time with much less time wasted...unless you haven't saved recently that is.

Games should never rise above Tough on the scale linked below in my opinion...

http://www.ifwiki.org/index.php/Cruelty_scale

And yet many of the most memorable games of that era would fall into either the Nasty or Cruel classification. Being "wasted time" is a matter of argument. Unlike Telltale games, point and clicks from this time were not just stories meant to be played through. They were meant as logic (or in some cases illogic) puzzles where success was dependent on noticing minor details or spending hours trying to figure out ways to get through a situation. When I played this game back in ~1997, there were a number of parts where I spent hours, and even days trying to figure out solutions to things. There were no guides, there were no walkthroughs or hint books. This wasn't time spent staring at the screen mind you, but it was time spent thinking about solutions to the puzzles. When I hit a point where I could not progress, like most other people, I started over to see if I could find the thing that was missed or done incorrectly. Even 18 years later I remember how it felt to play, how it felt to get stuck, how it felt to eventually figure it all out and make progress. Having to think about solutions was part of the game just as much as anything else.

Given the original $40-$50 pricetag, buying something that would leave you stumped for a weekend was part of the whole idea since you would be spending more than a dozen hours playing it. Just like how certain retrogames are only noteworthy for their brutal difficulty which was largely only present because of either oversights or to add playtime. And similar to retroesque games being made these days, newer point and clicks just can't duplicate the same sort of feel that old ones had. And it's not just nostolgia. Games made these days just aren't as memorable, you play them for a few hours, you finish them since all you have to do is follow the neat trail of breadcrumbs, then you uninstal them and move on.

Having things in the early game which could be missed but become crucial to completing the game was something that was very standard of games of this era. In retrospect they may have not always been intentional, in fact a number of other games had these things solely to encourage buying guidebooks for those games, or as an anti-piracy measure; but it was what colored the difficulty of the game and helped create that golden age.

[quasardw]

Noctropolis was very carefully designed by Flashpoint to *not* have any unwinnable situations. The ones we found during our playthroughs were confirmed to be unintentional. As a classic gaming enthusiast myself, I wouldn't have thought about changing them if they weren't confirmed to be bugs.

In addition, I'll add that we made the alternate solutions a little less than obvious, to keep the challenge there.

[ronaldopassarinho]

Thanks for the changes, man. It will certainly make a great game even better. I can hardly wait to play it again.

[FroBodine]

Wow, this brings back some wonderful memories! I played this game through multiple times. It was the top of the line in graphics and video back then.

I don't know if I have the energy to play it again, but it was sure a blast in the 90s!

[Hannibal]

I don't see a problem with this. Sounds like an unintended flaw. If I were 90% done and had to start all over I most likely wouldnt. I remember some of those games, never did finish them. You lose 20 to 30 minutes no big deal. Trial and error and all.

[mitsubi]

Dont remember any ded-ends there, maybe thats because i didnt got in any, folowing the story makes go to right places do right things.It is not Kyrandia where you can dump all the stuff in the nearest swamp or burn in in eternal fire.

[GabrielK]

I remember I had to go to a bar at one point, but that didn't pop, so somehow I managed to progress through the game without going to that place at all. Not a dead-end, just an oddity.

[PalestHorseYouKnow]

As a fellow dev and avid fan of this game (which inspired me to really pursue games in the first place), let me just say thank you, and that you are doing god's work here!

[ThreeSon]

I agree with the developer's decision, based on their rationale posted here. Still, it would be a nice "bonus" feature to be able to play the game with the original difficulty and gameplay - dead-end situations intact.

This is mostly for historical reasons in my view. I love it when games are properly fixed and updated as Noctropolis has been for Steam, but all the same I would still like to be able to play it as it was originally designed.

[[40-1]King_Kosher]

I get why people say "back then,you did not get spoonfed with the solution to riddles etc" but i remember my boxed copy of Noctropolis coming with a (well made) walkthrou book.

[Mashuo#85]

I cannot more agree on, that beauty of old games is in the quirks or unintentional design flaws that players could or even sometimes had to exploit or avoid to excel in the game. It's something that we all were somehow aware about and even crash of the game was acceptable.

I feel like dead-ends (wrong use of item) are an important part of this game. Though I know how it feels when you design changes, spending days on them, and then users say it wasn't good move. Kind a hard to accept ? ;)

On another hand and in defence, I don't agree with statement that game for historical reasons should be exactly the same. I am very much into preserving old mood and difficulty or even making it more difficult, but dding something new would be awesome, such that old players (which will mostly be the audience for this remastered version) will enjoy some new challenges. I have nothing against adding dead-ends or adding something to the story, such that we can experience something new, not only in terms of graphics.

For the full retro-experience I suggest to run original in the dosbox :) Though I know how hard it is to get that copy :)

[timmo4444]

Thankyou devs. Thats something that a lot of people dont realize, most dead-ends in "old-school" games were not meant to be. It was not the devs aim to ruin somebodies day, nor was it a part of a games charm. Going to give this game a play for halloween.

[Kwama57]

Thank GOD for this POSITIVE EVOLUTION in videogames... Amen.