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the only way to speed run through the game right now is to do hibernation. what this does is get the player to whatever amount of days and hours he sets his goal to in the fastest time. If you set your goal to say 50 days then you can easily do that in just a couple of real life hours on pilgrim using hibernation to power sleep the hours and days.
basically what you do is stay inside a safehouse for pretty much 99% of the game and you starve yourself to death while fulfilling all your other needs inside the safehouse (Fatigue, Cold, and Thirst). what this does is force the player to drain his health condition down from 100% to 1% then you eat very little calories then sleep for 12 hours and you go from 1% back up to 100% in just 12 hours. once you have fulfilled everything minus hunger and you are officially starving (that is your hunger bar is maxed out) you will begin to lose 1% health condition per hour. This means that from this point you have 98-99 hours left before you die so you eat very little calories (no more than 800 calories ) once your health condition reaches 1%-2% in order to get it back to 100% in 12 hours. Usually what players do is just eat 800 calories from cooked deer meat once every 116.5 hours because that is the current cap on Pilgrim. On stalker you have to eat once every 60 hours or so to avoid death.
you only come out of hibernation when you need supplies, forage wood, or you are running out of food so you leave when your Feels Like temperature is very good to go outside. this also means you have to quickly craft the deer boots, wolf coat, rabbit mittens and bear skin ASAP. of course to get the bear skin you would have to start a new game already in Pleasant Valley or walk there from wherever you started. Now that you have the best clothing to go outside your good to go. what this does is prevent your cold meter to go up because you are always warm even outside as you will usually have 20F-38F with the best clothing when outside in perfect weather and around 0F during a blizzard.
to put it simply you eat 2.2 lbs every 4.85 days on pilgrim and on stalker you eat this same amount every 2.5 days so if you have 50 lbs of meat stored up then you have enough food to power sleep (or speed run) your way to an automatic 9.0909 days or an easy 218.18 hours.
but the developer has already said that they are looking to stop this abuse in a future update so take advantage while you still can.
if you do decide to do this then i suggest to cafefully look at the patch notes for future updates so that when you go to an event you have don't update to a version where this got patched.
but yes to sum it up you can get to day 50 in an hour or two on pilgrim but you have to power sleep which means stock up on food and water before you hibernate your way to day 50. You can probably reach that goal quickly if you rely on bags and cans and not on meat since you can consume alot less calories from those and delay your health condition even more than using meat. also rely more on coffee, tea and drinks and less on water to delay the health condition drop even more but seeing as how you find very little thirst items you are pretty much forced to rely heavily on water. you want to keep your thirst down as much as possible for as long as possible because if you let thirst and hunger get to the red then you begin to lose about 4% health condition per hour instead of the usual 1% from just starving.
We'll investigate.
Keep in mind, also, that when you allow yourself to Starve, you suffer a Fatigue penalty where your Fatigue is capped at 50% (you cannot exceed this) until you remain at full Condition for a period of time. This means that if you intentionally Starve yourself, you are making yourself highly vulnerable as soon as you leave the safety of your shelter.
All that said:
1) while Hibernation is possible based on the way the mechanics work, this is not an experience we endorse as it's completely contrary to the spirit of the game
2) since Hibernation ruins the value of Leaderboard scores, we intend to address this simply for those people who value the Leaderboards and "Days Survived" scores.
Solving this is a fairly complex design problem which involves changing several systems. That said, we may introduce "bandaid" solutions to further reduce the effectiveness of this "strategy".
thank you for the in depth in regards to the planned fix. I will be the first one to tell you that i am not on the leaderboard nor do i have any intention of being on it until i deem that the leaderboard is actually legit and when i saw the top guy on the leaderboard had 2,177 days survived, the first thing i said was "he cheated" or "he used hibernation mechanics to get there". sure enough once i started playtesting and figuring out the hibernation system it was clear how everyone on that leaderboard got so many days because common sense tells you that the most you can survive with actual skill before you run out of things is 100-200 days if playing the way the game is meant to be played instead of hibernating your way to the top of the leaderboard.
i consider being on the leaderboard a test of true skill rather than abusing something that is built into the game that was either overlooked, not tested, or was ignored thinking no one would figure it out. If i wanted to be on the leaderboard i could easily get on it based on whatever goal i set myself to. But like i said i will save that for the day i can say that the people on the leaderboard actually have skill to be on there instead of being there when they lack the skill of actually surviving.
i don't mind the hibernation style of play because i too use it and don't want to see it get get gutted to where it doesn't even become an alternative style of play. all i want is to be able to still hibernate but not be able to abuse it.
hibernation is a style of play because it is basically a second game within the game. think of the real game as an arcade/casual game. now think of hibernation as a simulator. not many games can do both so this would be a big leg up to the developer and to the game itself.
the real game is all about exploring and worrying about wolf and bear attacks and finding shelter to spend the night all while looting to keep you alive to live another day. that is the real game.
however when you are hibernating you are doing none of that because your priorities are different.
here when you hibernate you are saving every single piece of thing you find when you explore in order to make it last as long as possible to get to as many days as you can. for instance if you find a hunting knife you need to manage it properly because you will then need to use a scrap metal and when you have scrap metal every single one counts big time when you are hibernating because you need to get to the highest days survived that you possibly can get. rather than cutting up every single deer you find and ending up with 200 lbs of meat stored up is pointless because more than likely all that meat will reach 0% condition before you even get half way through eating it.
but if you are not hibernating and your playing the game normally you don't care about the hunting knife lasting as long as possible because all you care about is eating your 3 meals a day.
do you see how these are two different styles of play. it's two games in one and i just want to be able to play both styles without getting the nerf bat. i mean it's gonna get addressed but i would still like it to be an alternative style of play rather than the only way to get on the leaderboard.
Hibernating = gaming the current mechanics to extend your life for as long as possible by starving yourself and sleeping for weeks on end. This is not the intended experience.
The rest of what you describe *is* the intended game experience. Exploring, looking for resources (both natural and man-made), harvesting them and using them as carefully as possible, and hoping to survive another day despite a myriad of obstacles mother nature throws in your way.
but animals hibernate by eating lots of food and then using the stored fat to last through the cold winters when food is not available so how is this not any different from real life.
if hibernation gets completely removed from the game i will be dissapointed like alot of people. all i am saying is keep hibernation possible but try to find a way to keep it balanced so it doesn't get abused. in other words embrace it as a style of play rather than as an unfair method of playing the game. perhaps the player can not sleep while he is not fatigue, or perhaps throw a wolf inside his shelter for hibernating too much (after all wolves and bears will do whatever they have to do if they smell meat in real life). these are the things that can be done to create a temporary fix but still be used so that the hibernation style of play can still stay in the game but being more balanced.
Maybe make the game have loot respawn after xx days, or once you have looted a percentage of the total items then the game automatically respawns items like if it was a new game. Or if say all the hunting knifes have been aquired then the game automatically puts more hunting knives in the game but puts them randomly so they don't reappear in the same place again. If this happens then i am fine with eliminating hibernation from the game otherwise i will be sad once hibernation gets eliminated because i like it because to me it is a style of play it just needs to be somehow balanced to keep in the game.
otherwise when the player has no cloth, scrap metal, hunting knife, etc... you are pretty much just waiting to die but now you are just prolonging the inevitable death rather than finding a wolf or bear and purposely let him kill you because "well the game ran out of items anyway so no point in playing anymore so i'll purposely die to end the game".
The game should not end because the game ran out of items. Which is why i say hibernating is a style of play because you are conserving cloth, scrap metal, ammo, etc (aswell as food and water) for when you really need it when all the loot is gone from the game. hibernating is not just about starving yourself to death or sleeping the hours away, it is also about preserving and managing the items that you have at your disposal. The game should in fact end because the player either got attacked by wolves/bears or because he didn't manage his loot properly or because he didn't go out looking for another hunting knife when the one he had reached 0% condition because he ran out of scrap metal.
i hope you understand what i'm saying.
It is not the game that end because ran out of items.... it is the sandbox...
Animals do hibernate, but humans don't. In real life... And your statement is kind of wrong. When you hibernate in-game as you describe it, foos IS actually around, but you decide to starve yourself. I am not sure Mother Nature would have make bears sleep 6 months if salmon were available all the year...
I don't get your sentence :
Players can play a third way, by trying to survive as long as they can, but not using a game mecanics. Each time you play, you learn how to survive longer, what kills you before is less likely to kill you the next time. I saw one players foraging about 1000 Fir wood because he had no more cloth and need a perma fire. I hardly consider his way of play funnier than hibernation.
Stalker is definitly not easy when you play the game as it is intended. When you always go outside to find a new area, and deal with weather and wolfs daily, that dificulty really make it hard. You can find yourself out of cloth and bandage, meaning that your newt encouter with a wolf is maybe your last day on earth, bringing every outsides action as a very challenging decisions. Without hibernating, I cam across day 75 and decided to kill me for another round, true I had a lot of items stockpile in differents houses, but the game never lost his tension because I was always PLAYING.
Please consider passing on this feeling to the dev in the same time ;) , because sure players want it harder, but others find it great to play with, and maybe don't want so much change...
I can find a very good option by being able to sleep only when tired....this should be consider by dev and sure it will or has already be.
Actually in pilgrim this is possible. I don't think that others dificulty let it happen...
TL:DR : Hinterland can't focus on changing in depth the sandbox experience as they are working on the story mode. We must keep in mind that sandbox is sandbox, even if we all found it great and playable, this is not the game Hinterland are working on. We are not playing TLD, we are playing its sandbox.
The "game", as some players seems to call it, is not at all released.
We thinking "gaming" the mechanics as they are currently designed, to artificially extend life, is not a very interesting way to experience the game, is not our intended experience, and in fact detracts from the value of measuring days survived on the Leaderboards. As such, we don't think this is a playing style we want to encourage.
Another way of thinking about it -- surviving for many days should feel like an accomplishment, not a "cheap trick".
as long as you guys make loot respawnable so that we can continue to manage our stockpiles and last longer i completely agree with everything you said and have no problems with eliminating hibernation from the game. Otherwise when the player runs out of scrap metal, cloth, ammo, hunting knife, and the hatchet because the game does not respawn these essential items then the game is pretty much over and just waiting for the death screen to appear sooner or later.
* Without Hibernation being a valid strategy for long-term survival, it will be much harder to survive long enough to have to worry about running out of the items that are limited
* Rather than respawn man-made objects, our focus has been to try to let players build towards self-sufficiency by harvesting from the natural environment.
Respawning loot is not currently part of our plans.
but you just said the game will be harder to survive yet nothing stops the player from reloading before he gets attacked by a bear or a wolf, so in the end a player will still reload when the wolf starts coming his way to avoid death then he simply tries again and again until he succeeds that's no different than abusing hibernation. you would have to eliminate reloading but even then you can't stop someone from turning off their PC or pressing Alt+F4 to bypass this. this is something you simply cannot prevent unless you make the game automatically delete the save game once the player does any of this and even then how do you let players leave the session when they are actually done playing.... you simply can't.
you said u want to not encourage negative things but a player will still reload in order to get around "death" and continue playing. yet when he keeps reloading he will still be at day 150 still looking for a cloth or scrap metal to fix his rifle or his clothing. you have to plan for what the game will do once the player gets very deep in the game and he is on day 150 and desperate to find the resources he REALLY NEEDS to survive at that stage of the game.....
the wildlife is the main factor in deciding how long the player lives, it's not the lack of food, water, bed and shelter because those are not that hard to get. and as a result bears and wolves are easily avoidable by either not interacting with them or simply reload if you weren't looking for a fight.
As for the loot, so the game will turn into another stranded deep or the forest. that's not a bad thing but i still kinda wished it wasn't another crafting survival sandbox game though. We have plenty of those around and the one thing i really like about TLD is that you don't have to craft everything in the game. this game is great because the items are already crafted and you just have to go out there and find them. that's what sets this game apart from the rest of the one's already in the genre.
ok so this means that we will finally be able to chop up trees and chairs to have wood to make fires.
but how are we going to make cloth when you need sewing kit to make cloth and sewing kit currently has no way to repair. the same goes for repair tools. both sewing kit and repair tool would need to be repairable to make that system work. and in order to make sewing kit repairable you would need things like needles, scissors, yarn, etc.... which the game doesn't have. either way you still need man made items in the game in order to make the sewing kit and repair tool. Which still goes back to what i said earlier about making loot respawn because you still need man made items to respawn when the game has no more. otherwise how are you going to make scissors, yarn, and needles. you can't exactly make a pair of scissors by using one wood and then using a knife or hatchet to turn the wood into a sharp object and even then man made scissors are just superior to a crafted scissor. the needle i guess is easily done since it's just a long straight sharp object that doesn't need precision cutting.
and how are we going to get scrap metal?
are we going to have to harvest cans from the food and drinks we consume?
if so that is fine and all but once again sooner or later scrap metal will still be very limited. in order to compensate for the limited scrap metal you need to introduce bows and arrows for us to hunt wildlife so that we can craft bows and arrows out of wood and rope. but again you would need to introduce rope, yarn or lashings to the game.
the same is said about ammo, how are we going to "craft" ammo. you would need to add gunpowder to the game to make bullets and then use the empty cartidges from used ammo cartridges to make a bullet. or perhaps use match heads or the leftover wood to use for making bullets. even then you still need scrap metal to make a bullet (for the shrapnel) anyways which still makes scrap metal even more of a necessity. the only way i see harvesting scrap metal from the environment is to break down electronics/appliances in safehouses. that would mean refrigerators, dryers, washers, tv's, radios, etc....
ahh now i understand why theres radios that don't work. now we get to use them to make scrap metal... it all makes sense. :)
I'm not even reading most of this thread. I trust you guys 100% and I know you'll make awesome decisions. Cheers!