Somatic Philosophy #3

[fg_thomas]

In preparation for the release of SOMA, here is another philosophical conundrum:

A scientist, holding a wrench, stands in front of a small robot. As the scientist raises the wrench, the robot whimpers and backs off. It looks scared. The scientist brings the wrench down on the robot and it cries out. The robot desperately tries to crawl away, but it's no use. The scientist hits it again. After having struck it twice more, the robot stops moving. "Don't be alarmed," the scientist says. "It's just a mechanical robot, made out of silicon and metal, that's wired to act like this. It can't possibly feel pain".

A scientist, holding a wrench, stands in front of a small kitten. As the scientist raises the wrench, the kitten whimpers and backs off. It looks scared. The scientist brings the wrench down on the kitten and it cries out. The kitten desperately tries to crawl away, but it's no use. The scientist hits it again. After having struck it twice more, the kitten stops moving. "Don't be alarmed," the scientist says. "It's just a cellular organism, made out of flesh and bone, that's wired to act like this. It can't possibly feel pain".

[Promilia]

That poor kitten..

[♡ Katalina Aryze ♡]

Based on how advanced the robot's programming is, yes it could possibly feel pain. Nothing is impossible.

As for living beings with flesh and blood... well, they have muscles, tendons and nerves so when it gets hit by something, the nerve sends an impulse to the brain which stimulates the feeling of pain... this can be programmed into a robot so you can get a similar result by different means.

The scientist was clearly wrong. I'd like to place his brain in a kitten or in a robot robot (Soma style) and see what he thinks after a few beatings, I'd bet his thought of processing would be alot different then ;)

[MapleOmega]

Originally posted by stevehino56:

Based on how advanced the robot's programming is, yes it could possibly feel pain. Nothing is impossible.

As for living beings with flesh and blood... well, they have muscles, tendons and nerves so when it gets hit by something, the nerve sends an impulse to the brain which stimulates the feeling of pain... this can be programmed into a robot so you can get a similar result by different means.

The scientist was clearly wrong. I'd like to place his brain in a kitten or in a robot robot (Soma style) and see what he thinks after a few beatings, I'd bet his thought of processing would be alot different then ;)

Exactly this, A robot by extension is a creation of humans. All what they can experience and stimulate can be virtually identical, id argue in a more pure form they would feel these chemical reactions but in a more rational tone. Logic would dictate before emotions, as emotions are subjective and can be altered and shouldn't be a tangible source to rely on.

[Sivulla]

It's easier to kill a cat, or anything else, if you don't consider it alive. Despite whatever it may plea.

[Godling]

https://i.imgflip.com/r3n6q.jpg

... sums it all up nicely I'd say. ;)

[Toveryn]

The flaw in the scientists logic is that humans, too are wired to react in a certain way to particular stimulii. That reaction -is- pain. It is the same with other cellular organisms, whom are wired very much the same way. In the case of the robot, if we define pain as a response to potential harm to our being, then yes, of course the robot feels pain. It is reacting to a physical and immediate threat, much the same way humans or kittens, do.The sensation they percieve as pain may be different, as every being feels pain different, but pain is the wired response itself, running through little electric wires that we call the neural network. Robots can have a similar system of physical sensors all wired to respond to stimulii. The threat is sensed (ie, the wrench hitting the thing), electrical signals travel from the sensor, to the central processing unit, and it responds as it has been taught/programmed. Thus, the scientist is only half right. The process is very similar, but pain is the response itself, that tells us of the danger to react to, so both the kitten, and the robot can and should feel pain.

[J F J]

Pass the butter.

[Void Bearer]

:( Poor kitten.

[Trouser_Dune_Worm]

The fact that a scientist would never think that ( "It's just a cellular organism, made out of flesh and bone, that's wired to act like this. It can't possibly feel pain".) makes it impossible for me to even comment on this.

[Maniak 2000]

Humans are " just a cellular organism, made out of flesh and bone, that's wired to act like this" too, and we can feel pain, so the kitten can feel pain as well. Second statement is false.

First statement is........partially true. While robot can't feel the pain (same way as humans can), still it can detect ("feel") damage to it's (sub)system(s), so for a robot it can be considered "pain" ......... but I guess that depends on programming / A.I.

[Godling]

Originally posted by C_Dorner:

The fact that a scientist would never think that ( "It's just a cellular organism, made out of flesh and bone, that's wired to act like this. It can't possibly feel pain".) makes it impossible for me to even comment on this.

I'm curious, how does the field of science manage to guarantee that only morally superior people practice science? Is there a test or something? Ankle bracelets maybe?

[Algaar]

It maybe off topic, but this thoughts come to me after reading this tread.

What is pain actually? When you hit your head with a hammer, sensory receptors send impulses to your brain. And brain interprets this impulses like THAT IS BAD! YOU SHOULD AVOID THAT. Why? Because the gods of evolution decides that! Every organism that like to hit his small head with a hammer and didn't feel bad about that eventually smash his scull and become very dead. Only the pain-feelers survive.
But if you are robot you don't have any evolution behind your back. Sure this artificial sensory receptors sending some impulses to your artificial brain. And your brain interprets it someway. But maybe brain is wrong? Who decided that this feeling should be bad? Maybe hitting your head is harmless to you now? You definitely should find it out.

[Toveryn]

Originally posted by Al Gaar:

It maybe off topic, but this thoughts come to me after reading this tread.

What is pain actually? When you hit your head with a hammer, sensory receptors send impulses to your brain. And brain interprets this impulses like THAT IS BAD! YOU SHOULD AVOID THAT. Why? Because the gods of evolution decides that! Every organism that like to hit his small head with a hammer and didn't feel bad about that eventually smash his scull and become very dead. Only the pain-feelers survive.
But if you are robot you don't have any evolution behind your back. Sure this artificial sensory receptors sending some impulses to your artificial brain. And your brain interprets it someway. But maybe brain is wrong? Who decided that this feeling should be bad? Maybe hitting your head is harmless to you now? You definitely should find it out.

Well, this is where the ethics of creating an AI start to become increasingly muddy. The entire topic of robots being able to feel and experience life and the morality of creating such beings aside, there's a bit of a question of why we would program robots to feel pain.

On one hand, this could be highly unethical as we would likely have to perform many tests and trials on developed A.I.s (artificial, but living beings) in order to get it to work. And once it did, it could be considered amoral to implant A.I. lifeforms with these systems and programming, and allow them to feel potentially horrible things.

On the other hand, there would be a few different applications for this. The first and most obvious one would be programming robots to respond to pain in a way that mimics humans. That is, they respond to the same stimulii with pain as we would. This would be used for creating lifelike mechanical replicas of humans, which happens to be a whole nother ethical issue. The other use for pain in robots would be to tell them when their systems are actually in danger, which is what the pain response's purpose actually is. Yes, a robot could feel pain, and thus experience some possibly very horrible things, but a robot that can feel pain when its systems are damaged -- or are in danger of imminent destruction -- would be more aware of its well being, possibly avoid damage to its systems that robots without a pain-response wouldn't or couldn't avoid.

[Frosty]

You can bring a robot back to "life" but not a organic being. Interesting prompt, but just over simplifies the subject matter into a anecdote.

[Frosty]

So is the robot a kitten robot?

OOH! What if you mixed the robot and kitten together? Would it multiply the fluffiness factor of adorableness? Hmm... Much research needs to be done, anyone have a kitten and/or robot? :D