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Adelion Feb 3, 2014 @ 5:48am
Possible (and succesful) character builds
Okay, this thread shall be used as feedback for the developer and as an orientation for new players. It can be hard for new players to make a character since they don't know what is awaiting them. In order to help them a little I would like seasoned players to post their succesful character builds. As succesful I will here just determine: Did reach the end of the current storyline.
I'll make the start in order to show what I imagine (PLEASE seasoned players, post your build and experience). First I would like to post screenshots about the current character with level and its skill point distribution and after that people should explain what is good about their build and where it may have problems. I'll start with my second character since I enjoy playing him more. Edit: Okay this is getting more text then I anticipated ^^


Name: Christoph
Current Level: Transition between 13 and 14
Experience Setup: Oddity
Emphasis: Psi Fighter/Scientist


http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=224127079
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=224127102

The basic ability distribution is concentrated on will and intelligence (since I'm over level 12 I have three more points then in the beginning; all of them went in will and intelligence; start was 7/8 or 8/7) and agility to be mobile.
As you can see the character has nearly now offense and defensive skills beside throwing and that only thay the grenades are not flying around totally random. After my first build I wanted to make two things: A psi character to farm achievements and a character with social skills to reduce the foul taste in my mouth after I had to blast my way through the game again. So I decided to combine those two.
I maximazed the persuasion and intimidation skill and they are, for me atleast, enjoyable since I can determine the outcome of different situations and reduce some bloodshed. The only problem I encountered which I was not able to solve in a satisfying way was a quest at junkyard because someone could not be intimidated even with an effective value of over 100. Rasing both skills is helpful because of the Synergy effects.
The initial motivation for the scientist part was that I wanted to construct my own grenades and raising your chemistry value and mechanics value will allow you to craft MK II grenades early in the game without too much cost and they can solve a lot of the fighting situations. The biology skill is for one because of synergy effects and second to create my own psi boosters and later on I will use it to create chemical weapons (science rules!).
Since my first character had lockpicking and stealth I wanted to do otherwise. So I picked hacking which is useful quite often (and I prefer it over lockpicking overall, mainly because of turrets) and electronics can be used for a few higher end stuff like your own Psi headband and maybe other stuff coming. Since electronics is not that important at the beginning you should first concentrate on the hacking stuff. The rest of the skill points I tried to raise step by step sometimes changing a bit here and there to get something done faster (like raising more points in hacking to hack the computer etc.). The traps is something when I am able to create more powerful traps. So far it is used as trap finding ability.
For the feats: The doctor feat is only there so I could save a person but the additional 20 hp from health hypos and the bandages useable with hp lower 40 % are also useful. Other then that the most important ability is shroomhead followed by premeditation, sprint and cryogenic induction.

The advantages: With the social skills I can solve some situations without fighting (thanks to the oddity experience setup allowing such a playstyle) and with all three psi abilities trained I get a lot of synergy effects. With a value of 45 you can learn all to date existing psi spells and they are awesome. There are atleast three abilities to stop living ennemies for one round atleast which gives you field control so single ennemies are no problem. For larger groups the chemistry/mechanics combination is useful since it allows to craft strong grenades. The hacking skill allows to go different routes and if there are terminals it is quite handy. Also with the ever growing mind shrooms you have an endless supply of Psi boosters (ampules can be a problem). Premeditation reduces your psi costs and the sprint ability coupled with cryokinesis (and the agility value) allows to kite and fight stronger ennemies and with cryogenic induction you can blast them away. With an armor with good acid defense playing the junkyard was also easier then expected. Now at level 13/14 there is few to fear with this build. Although you have still to reload often if you mess up the start or if you 88% hitting value leads to missing the third time in a row.

The disadvantages: At the beginning with learning the spells and buying psi boosters this build is extremely expensive and you have to manage your money very good. Also I missed lockpicking especially in GMS since you can't enter the ventilation system without it .... so you have to load a lot to get past the robots there. Robots in general have been a problem for a long time. As soon as you get electrokinesis it gets much better but till then make a bow around them. Also I would recommand a high value in hacking so you have not to fight the turrets. Fighting them without far ranging weapons may prove impossible. The stealth ability I miss aswell but it is not as bad as I feared.

Edit 1: I will change things here and there if I feel I missed something and if motivated I will upload my first build
Edit 2: I deleted my one post in this thread to keep it as clean as possible.
Edit 3: Corrected the links -____-
Last edited by Adelion; Feb 3, 2014 @ 11:45pm
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Showing 1-15 of 24 comments
Styg  [developer] Feb 3, 2014 @ 6:11am 
That would be very useful as feedback, so please do. ;)
netdark3000 Feb 3, 2014 @ 3:56pm 
I am level 12, but only took notes until level 8.

ST 3
DEX 8
AG 7
CON 5
PER 4
WILL 8
INT 5

NÍVEL 1
=======
THROWING 15
DODGE 15
STEALTH 15
HACKING 0
LOCKPICKING 15
PICKPOCKETING 15
THOUGHT CONTROL 15
PERSUASION 15
INTIMEDATION 15

FEAT
----
BURGLAR
SPRINT

NÍVEL 2
=======

THROWING +5
STEALTH +5
HACKING +10
LOCKPICKING +5
PICKPOCKETING +5
THOUGHT CONTROL +5
INTIMEDATION +5

FEAT
----
PSYCHOSIS


NÍVEL 3
=======
THROWING +5
STEALTH +5
LOCKPICKING +5
PICKPOCKETING +5
HACKING +10
THOUGHT CONTROL +5
PERSUASION +5

NÍVEL 4
=======
THROWING +5
STEALTH +5
HACKING +10
LOCKPICKING +5
PICKPOCKETING +5
THOUGHT CONTROL +5
INTIMEDATION +5

BASE
----
PER +1

FEAT
----
GRENADIER


NÍVEL 5
=======
THROWING +5
STEALTH +5
HACKING +5
LOCKPICKING +5
PICKPOCKETING +5
THOUGHT CONTROL +5
PERSUASION +5
INTIMEDATION +5


NÍVEL 6
=======
THROWING +5
STEALTH +5
HACKING +5
LOCKPICKING +5
PICKPOCKETING +5
THOUGHT CONTROL +5
PERSUASION +5
INTIMEDATION +5

FEAT
----
PREMEDITATION


NÍVEL 7
=======
THROWING +5
STEALTH +5
HACKING +5
LOCKPICKING +5
PICKPOCKETING 0 (já está bom)
TRAPS +5
THOUGHT CONTROL +5
PERSUASION +5
INTIMEDATION +5

NÍVEL 8 (REPENSAR AQUI)
=======

TRAPS +20
? another points

FEAT
----
SHROOMHEAD
Last edited by netdark3000; Feb 3, 2014 @ 4:01pm
petr_kodolov Apr 20 @ 3:19pm 
Currently, one of the easiest builds for new players is a melee bruiser/psion. I call this character Universal Soldier. It is extremely tanky and very well-rounded against all types of enemies.
ST 9
DEX 3
AG 3
CON 9
PER 3
WILL 8
INT 5
As you can see, you have a wopping 3 dump stats which allows you to start with very high STR and CON and pretty high Will as well. The offensive arsenal of this character includes Melee, Metathermics and Thought control. It's a very versatile selection, because it allows you to pretty much deal with any enemy. Sledgehammer will make short work of robots and turrets, thermics takes care of aoe situations and gives you control (through Pyromaniac feat), thought provides additional control against living targets + an OP feat (Locus of Control) and a damage source that bypasses shields and resistances. You are able to wear the heaviest armor and have a lot of health. When you take some good feats (Conditioning, Juggernaut, Stoicism, Thick skull) you will become near impossible to kill.
One of the few downsides of this build is that it has low mobility. The idea here is not to kite your foes, but to meet them head on and obliterate them with powerful psionics.
For non-combat skills I would recommend taking at least Mechanics , Electronics and some points into Tailoring, so that you can make your own armor, headband and energy shield. Also, Hacking and Lockpicking seem to be almost mandatory.
This is the build I am playing now and I have to say it's the smoothest run out of all the builds I have tried so far.
Last edited by petr_kodolov; Apr 23 @ 3:33am
petr_kodolov Apr 21 @ 3:10am 
Btw, in this build the Last stand feat seems good on paper, but is actually pretty meh. Why? The reason is that you have very low initiative (another weakness of this character), meaning that enemies will always act before you do. In this scenario all Last stand does is buy you 2 extra rounds of combat during which you have to kill everything or you instantly die at the beginning of the 3rd round. Instead, I would recommend Quick pockets to be able to easier equip a second fully charged energy shield that you can keep in your inventory. Should you need it, which won't be very often.
Last edited by petr_kodolov; Apr 23 @ 3:37am
Fire Flamazo Apr 24 @ 7:09am 
Just hit level 24, and pretty much done with what I've wanted with the storyline. Spoilers:

Done with Tchort, right before elevator, the Arena, Gauntlet, and right before the Black Eel's gangwar, however a bug seems to prevent me from talking about it. Perhaps because I wanted to talk about it after getting the quest to get the strange cube? Maybe I already failed the council chat and forgot about it.

Anyways, this is my build. Warning: Much text ahead.

[Base Stats]
STR 5
DEX 4
AGI 4
CON 8
PER 8
WILL 7
INT 10

[Skills]
Guns - 130 (174)
Throwing - 130
Mechanical - 125 (188)
Electronics - 130 (196)
Chemistry - 130 (196)
Biology - 100 (150)
Tailoring - 125 (188)
Metathermics - 130 (163)
Persuasion - 40 (50)

[Feats]
Aimed Shot
Clothier
Conditioning
Doctor
Fast Metabolism
Opportunist
Power Management
Stoicism
Kneecap Shot
Thermodynamicity
Pyromaniac
Mad Chemist
Premeditation
Execute
Psi Empathy
Hunter

The aim of this build is to take advantage of many high grade components found to make better things than what could have been only obtainable through shops or drops.

The armor choice was tactical vest. Early on, I went with riot gear, but I liked the extra protection you could get from the tactical vest, not to mention that most melee attacks would get absorbed from a good tactical vest anyways while offering amazing protection from bullets with the capacity to have less armor penalty, rendering the riot gear somewhat inferior. Tack on a 1300hp energy shield and anything mechanical, apart from sledgehammers or crossbows, attacking me is either completely absorbed or deals very little damage that gets healed from the regenerative vest. A nice health pool and both Doctor and Fast Metabolism give me the extra cushion I need to last much longer.

The weapon choice was originally going to be energy weapons, but I decided to go with chemical weapons instead. A taser along with incendiary, gas, and EMP grenades acted as support. Metathermic psi attacks and crowd control only added to my arsenal.

Chemical weapons are very good weapons for controlling different targets, as each one offers a different form of control:

  • Acid pistols are the basic model, each hit having a chance to entangle the target, rooting the target and dealing acid damage. Hits from this pistol surround the target with puddles of acid that deal some damage to things that move through them.
  • Incendiary pistols are my personal favorite, as each hit has a chance to ignite the target, dealing heat damage to the target and, if it is a living target, placing them in extreme panic, causing them to run around and stop attacking. Note: Mutants are unaffected by panic.
  • Cryoliquid pistols are a nice alternative to the Incendiary pistol, dealing some mechanical damage as well as cold damage per hit. Each hit chills the target for quite some time, and also has a chance to freeze the target, leaving them frozen and defenseless until hit from any further attacks.

Chemical weapons are fun, but they have two downfalls. One, they have a short range of attack. Two, they offer a *chance* per hit to apply their special effects. While the first issue can only be dealt with by either getting closer or luring targets to you by hiding behind cover, the second issue has a neat band-aid in the form of the feat Mad Chemist. With this feat, any on-hit effects from chemical pistols you create are doubled. This doubles the damage of the on-hit effects, which puts amazing damage on targets you manage to control. An example is my Incendiary Pistol which deals 18-30 Heat damage and has a 85% chance to ignite the target dealing 368% damage over 2 turns. Most living targets die before they put the fire out. Criticals and/or Executes only speed up the process. I mainly use Acid and Incendiary pistols, igniting and entangling targets which kills my target very quickly. Each has it's issues versus certain enemies, but the gains are very strong if you have the right pistol for the right enemy.

My issue playing with this build was dealing with enemies that could bypass my defenses, like doppelgangers and poison. You have most of the tools, or skills to make the tools, to deal with almost any defense or attack. I was just stubborn and stuck to chemical pistols and bulletproof vests, but nothing was stopping me from making a nice electric pistol to deal with an army of robots, for example.

It's fun, I believe, to play, and I hope more feats are added for high INT crafting characters and additional components for chemical pistols, like alternative dispensers, maybe a poison/explosive option, and maybe optional enchancement slots.

TL;DR - Crafter who laughs at bullets and dissolves/burns/freezes all the things.
Last edited by Fire Flamazo; Apr 24 @ 7:13am
petr_kodolov Apr 24 @ 10:24am 
Yeah, I agree. Chemical weapons look great on paper, but when I tried them I was a bit underwhelmed. Psionic attacks seem more powerful most of the time, esp. the crazy stuff you can do with Thought control.
Still, a nice build, thanks for posting.
Fire Flamazo Apr 24 @ 10:16pm 
Build was fun, all that matters, but definitely not OP or top tier. I had a monk that fit that description, abusing pre-nerf Taste for Blood with a pair of bladed boots, Vile Weaponry and Fancy Footwork. Max TfB stack 1 AP punches assisted by Psykokinesis and Adrenaline Rushes was one turn mayhem.

On topic, this build could have suffered from three things: a boring shopping experience, most of the time going second, and low movement points. The first can be circumvented by quicksaving before talking to a merchant after wares have refreshed. Reload if nothing you saw interested you. This was immensely helpful at Marty Mart. The second issue could also be circumvented just by remembering when and where hostiles were and preemtively entering combat, or by soaking attacks with a 1300hp energy shield, and a 30 mechanical damage threshold(MDT) Kevlar Tactical Vest, increasing MDT by 266% vs. bullets, and 35% vs. knives (super steel sheet). Third would have been low movement points, but as a ranged character the low movement points weren't much of an issue either, considering you could lure NPCs into range by cutting line of sight (LOS).

Some of the INT crafter feats seem lackluster, such as Disassemble, Neurology, and Armor Sloping. Some that seemed great early on, like Ballistics, also became lackluster late game. Clothier/Skinner are nice later on, and so is Gun Nut, Weaponsmith to some degree, and especially Power Management. I hope that maybe there will be some high (8+) INT feats, perhaps extra skill points on level-up or adding special bonuses to created items, like doubling the amount of items made for consumables, grenades, etc., or perhaps weapons and armor created as if the quality of all components/enchancements/etc involved were X% higher or maybe a static bonus like increasing all skills, or skills of a category by X points while the item is equipped.

Currently, I'm playing a Crossbow/Trap Stealth character, and a Knife/Throwing Knife character. I may come back and offer my experience with those characters after I've played them past level 16 or so.
Last edited by Fire Flamazo; Apr 24 @ 10:18pm
petr_kodolov Apr 25 @ 2:03am 
Yeah, would be cool to hear your impressions of the crossbow build, I am thinking of playing one myself later on.
Fire Flamazo Apr 28 @ 7:39pm 
Alright, so, here I bring two stealth builds both level 18. I have my Crossbow/Trap character Bullseye, and my Knife/Throwing Knife character named Ninja. Both totally original names, I know, but it's straight to the point, lol. Much text ahead, you have been warned.

First, Ninja, specializing in using knives, melee and ranged.

[Base Stats]
STR 5
DEX 12
AGI 11
CON 3
PER 5
WILL 3
INT 5

[Skills]
Throwing - 100 (168)
Melee - 100 (168)
Dodge - 100 (159)
Evasion - 100 (159)
Stealth - 100 (254)
Lockpicking - 100 (168)
Pickpocketing - 100 (168)
Mechanics - 100 (108)

[Feats]
Expertise
Nimble
Recklesness
Sprint
Interloper
Cheap Shots
Expose Weakness
Fancy Footwork
Taste for Blood
Cut-Throat
Critical Power
Hunter

He uses knives in melee, attempting to kill, or incap to heal/setup and pass the turn. Expertise allows more damage as levels go on, Nimble allows for increase dodge/evasion, Rocklesness, Cheap Shot, Taste for Blood, and Critical Power enables plentiful, and amazing, critical hits. Sprint and Fancy Footwork, along with Cheap Shot incaps, allow for getaways, Interloper and Cut-throat allow for quicker movement and disposal of dangerous humanoids.

One thing you may not see is any throwing knife feats. Perhaps someone else's experience may be different, but throwing knives were never useful or important in many fights. The only use I would have for them was to throw them at ranged enemies before finding cover, but for most of the playtime of the character, most knives missed or it did damage that was not really comparable to the melee attacks my character dealt. Pinning's 35% chance to pin targets was unattractive to other options. Fatal Throw seemed nice but considering the melee range penalty of throwing knives, when they would be at 25% or lower hp, I skipped it several times. Split Spare seemed like the most useful one, throwing 2-for-1 Crawler Poison knives sounded great, but seeing as my most plentiful was Burrower poison knives, I passed.

As I level him up more, I will eventually pick these feats up. By themselves, they are very lackluster, but together they seem very powerful. Not to mention the ability to throw multiples in one turn, starting with Cave Ear poisoned ones, leading into Crawler or Burrower poisoned ones. I may skip Pinning, put points into biology and get Hypertoxicity.

If I had any suggestions, it would be Expertise also working for throwing knives, as well as slightly increased precision and damage for throwing knives. Maybe a higher chance on Pinning's success. Also, would it be possible to poison knives? Maybe use a charges system similar to the electric weapons.

P.S.: Pickpocketing is kinda awesome.


Next, I present probably one of my favorite builds so far to play, Bullseye specializing in crossbows, and traps.

[Base Stats]
STR 3
DEX 7
AGI 9
CON 3
PER 12
WILL 3
INT 7

[Skills]
Crossbows - 100 (168)
Dodge - 100 (142)
Evasion - 100 (142)
Stealth - 100 (294)
Traps - 100 (137)
Mechanical - 100 (125)
Electronics - 55 (69)
Biology - 45 (56)
Tailoring - 100 (125)

[Feats]
Aimed Shot
Marksman
Opportunist
Quick Tinkering
Trap Expert
Hypertoxicity
Ambush
Special Tactics
Sharpshooter
Critical Power
Deadly Snares
Hunter
Psi Empathy (to get free crossbow early)

This and the above character are low CON so a lot needed to be planned out before combat started, with Plan Bs like Sprint and Flashbangs available to try to get things in my favor. This character, Bullseye, possessed no such things. However, fights rarely got out of hand, unless you were to start a scripted fight that left you unstealthed. Some fights, I usually reload saves a lot, and this guy was no different, but quite often I found myself reloading for one reason: just to try different trap configurations. Traps were my Plan A, along with Crossbows. I did have a nice Plan B with feats, however.

Playing became quite rough at times, getting easier with each and every feat. No Sprint or Nimble to rush Marksman and Aimed Shot. Marksman and Special Tactics to bring special bolts up to speed. Opportunist, Sharpshooter, Deadly Snares, Ambush, Critical Power, and Aimed Shot allow for one-shot kills to almost any opponent. Quick Tinkering, Hypertoxicity, and the last feat I chose Trap Expert for trap support.

As I played this character, at some point, (probably around the time Deadly Snares came into play), I found traps to provide amazing support, sometimes determining the fight's outcome moreso than the crossbow itself! Strategic placement of a mine or poisoned bear trap spelled doom for any who would become caught in it's snare. Quick Tinkering let me place traps in combat, allowing me to easily deal with LOSed ranged, and very problematic melee, enemies.
Stealthing around setting traps allowed me to choose what and who would come to me, and which enemies would be held-up until I decided to kill them. Traps allow one to place a fight moreso to their advantage than many weapons would. Unlike thrown items, you can't miss with them once they activate, and if a trap becomes avoided somehow, a quick tinkered trap usually put them in their place.

A good example is the Acid Dogs and Mutant in Old Junkyard. I started by double bear trapping the double doors, followed by double bear traps again. This let me kill the mutant and bought me time in the event of acidic entanglement, which did happen. I managed to kill two more with my crossbow. When the remaining dogs finally came through, I had set a mine next to the one found in the entrance already, and this killed all but one, which I finished with my crossbow. If I didn't have all this, this fight may have had to be skipped. The crossbow at the time, while powerful, didn't offer much past damage, except the shock bolt. Later it would prove amazing paired with another feat.

Deadly Snares is amazing for a crossbow build based on crits and increased critical damage, or if you would love to crit with Serrated Bolts. With Opportunist and Critical Power, most opponents drop in one critical with a powerful crossbow, like my Tornado, modded with Anatomically-Aware Scope and Super String. Easily MVP of my entire playthrough, followed by Quick Tinkering. My only gripe considering traps is that I didn't have access to crafting of mines or chemical traps, but this may change.

If I had any suggestions, it would be chemical traps to have a more static skill requirement much like Shock Bolts or Poison Bear Traps. Crossbows are kinda a pain to use, and special bolts help much in that regard, but spending a feat (Marksman) to bring it down to useable levels if you plan to main crossbows doesn't feel good, considering the special bolts aren't a great reason to have a crossbow secondary as you could just pick up throwing and use flashbangs/frags/EMP and maybe even throwing knives to handle both single target and AoE CC and damage and forgo the secondary crossbow anyways. With 12 Perception, I was hoping for more precision from my crossbow, but my average was 70% unfocused/80% focused in light and 50% unfocused/65% focused in low-light conditions. With two-shots, it becomes quite painful to see two back-to-back misses when the chance is 75%-85%, which would spell my doom, but thankfully I had a bear trap to deal with the enemy. Another thing would be different metals possibly increasing damage of bear traps.

P.S.: Deadly Snares.

If I could ask a few questions, before I finish and play Kerbal Space Program and give Underrail a small break:

Why is it that as you move closer to enemies with crossbows and throwing knives, your chance to hit becomes greater?

Also, I skipped over Snipe every time I got to choose feats with it involved, because Aimed Shot is better. Any chance it could be changed to be desirable? Perhaps giving your next attack a 100% chance to hit, even really far away, with it's current effect, possibly putting the target off-balance similar to Pummel.

Any chance the small cooldown on Stealth upon changing zones could be removed? If not, why?

If any information I posted is, without a doubt, incorrect, please reply and let me know.
Wildan May 6 @ 11:43pm 
Fire Flamazo you should really look more into the basic game mechanics on Underrail wiki. There are so many mistakes in your builds, especially that handgun and knife characters.
MrMuse May 6 @ 11:52pm 
I think there is more to a great build than just bumping stats. Loadout and what you craft can enhance your character out of all proportion to any base stats. For the new player I would recommend a psi build with light armour as it leaves you with a lot of cash since you arent burning so many consumables. Recycle and Repair Kit blueprints are a must.
Last edited by MrMuse; May 6 @ 11:54pm
Fire Flamazo May 7 @ 2:09am 
Originally posted by MrMuse:
I think there is more to a great build than just bumping stats. Loadout and what you craft can enhance your character out of all proportion to any base stats. For the new player I would recommend a psi build with light armour as it leaves you with a lot of cash since you arent burning so many consumables. Recycle and Repair Kit blueprints are a must.

I only offered my build, my opinion on my choices, and my experience with each build so others could read and get an idea on something they have limited or no experience using extensively through a playthrough. Are chemical weapons good? Does anyone use traps? How does a crossbow compare to other weapons?

The meat of the game, in my opinion and as you said, is the items you use and craft, whether it's a powerful sniper rifle, or some useful flashbang grenades. Knowing which item is useful in what situation is really helpful, not only in your first playthrough but future playthroughs as well. Some items can only be obtained via crafting and these offer different stats, such as the case of firearms, or powerful effects, like special bolts or grenades and mines.

However, the base stats, skills, and feats provide the foundation to the game and your character. Without a certain stat or skill level, you can't use certain feats or items. Without raising the level of a certain stat or skill level, using certain items or weapons in combat will become harder to hit with. Many feats really pump a lot of life into a build, defining a character in combat situations.

What loadout and what you can craft can really enhance your character out of all proportion to any base stats. At some point, putting more points into a skill or base stat may be pointless, as the effect gained is hardly noticable. However, don't neglect the effect your feats, skills, and even base stats give to your character. There are nice bonuses to raising stats, even past 10. If another point in DEX removes 1 AP for your unarmed character, take it, if not it's 1% crit and it pumps any DEX-related skills you have.

I also agree with your suggestions. A psi build is pretty powerful and offers a lot of damage and control, and with the new regen mechanic, it is even better. Recycle and Repair Kit are obtained as soon as I can spare the extra credits when I start new playthroughs, although they usually have Mechanics, Electronics, and/or Tailoring.

Originally posted by Wildan:
Fire Flamazo you should really look more into the basic game mechanics on Underrail wiki. There are so many mistakes in your builds, especially that handgun and knife characters.

I read the wiki very often while I play Underrail, especially when I make new characters. I like to plan ahead in terms of putting skill and stat points. For example, for my crossbow build, I decided to plan some points into biology for poisons, the wiki helps me by letting me know what level I need for a crafting component, like Crawler Poison in chemical bolts. I often think I overspent points in my crafting skills, but I didn't know what the max component level is found in shops, so I said whatever seeing as I was basically done with most of the playthrough.

Originally posted by Fire Flamazo:
If any information I posted is, without a doubt, incorrect, please reply and let me know.

I did mention this in my previous post, because I am open to any errors I made concerning what I said and my build choices. Wildan, I'm glad you were willing to point out that I made many mistakes, but if it's possible, I'd like to know what mistakes I made. Every big change to the game that brings more content to the table brings me to make more characters and I find out things I didn't know that I take with me to the next update. Any advice you offer can be helpful. I can even reply back with why I chose what I did and explain my reasoning behind those decisions. Maybe someone will read all this and find things out they didn't know before, although maybe my walls of text may hinder their efforts, lol.
Wildan May 7 @ 2:35pm 
Alright, I will break it down for you. For the sake of easier reading I will put feats and abilities in quotation marks.

Regrading your chemical weapon build:
You're oblivious to the most important fact here and even the in-game description of dexterity states it: "High dexterity also reduces action point cost of unarmed and light weapons (pistols, SMGs, knives, and fist weapons."

Chemical pistols are just like all other handguns considered light weapons. The higher your dexterity the more shots you can fire per round with your 50 AP pool.
How much dex did you put in? 4. You dumped the most important stat for this character. Well almost, as 4 dex is just as bad as 3 when it comes to AP reduction. You're still paying the base AP cost per shot and even at level 24 you can shoot only twice. How often can a level 24 gunslinger build with maximised 17 dex (16+1 from eel sandwich) shoot in a round with a chem gun? 5 times, as the base AP cost is brought down to 10 together with the gunslinger feat. If we take the feats "Rapid Fire" and "Point Shot" in acccount (which you didn't take either) its whooping 7 shots in a round! (However I reccomend a max 16 dex build = 15 base dex + 1 from the eel.)

Next is strength which you oddly set at 5. While no pistols require strength to be effective it's important to have it at 6 to be able to pick "Steadfast Aim" which is among the most important feats for an effective pistol build. The in-game text says: "Increases critical hit chance with a pistol by 1% for each base action point required to fire it above 10." So for chemical pistols it's a +15% crit which is good. For a .44 gun it's already +22% and for a plasma gun amazing +30%! At this point it becomes pretty evident that a pistol build must be based on critical hits. No other builds can come even close here (not without the "Survival Instincts" feat anyway, which works only when under 30% health).

We come to the agility stat. You have it at 4. That's too low. You correctly noted that chemical guns are very short ranged, even more than regular pistols, but with agility at 4 you can't pick a single mobility enchancing feat (older patches didn't have any agility requirement for them but now they do). The chepeast and best suiting one would be "Sprint" with 6 agility and you need it as chemical guns have an effective range of 4 which is practically not much better than melee range. "Sprint" is very good when you need to kite alot and combine it with infused leather tabby boots which bring the cooldown from 10 to 5 rounds.

You have 8 constitution. Sure, con is always helpful but my rule of thumb is - either dump it completely, and have good stealth and crowd control, or take it to at least 9 for the best constitution requiring feats like "Survival Instincts", 10 if you really need "Thick Skull". A pistol build is very hungry for essential stats like dexterity and perception. Best leave it at 3 unless you play a defensive pistol build, to which I will come later.

For perception you chose 8. Again, what's up with those strange numbers? Your weapon damage scales with you effective weapon skills and perception is linked to guns. You also need 10 per for the "Sharpshooter" feat which is amazingly good for critical hits.

Now we have will at 7. This is a similar situation like with constitution. You should either go full to 10 to pick the "Locus of Control" feat or dump it completely. Currently as how the mechanics work in Underrail I advise against any investment in will unless the character is a pure psionic aiming at 14+ will endgame. Why? Like I mentioned, in recent patch mobility feats got reworked with the agility requirement forcing many builds which previously dumped agility now to invest 6 or 7 points in it. This hasn't happened (yet) with will but I expect it to be fixed soon. Right now you can pick two best psionic feats "Tranqility" and "Premeditation" even with 3 will. Both come close to LoC in therms of usefulness. As this is not enough some PSI abilities are seriously bugged and are prone to exploitation. Both Electrokinesis and Cryostatis can't be resisted... apart from the damage caused, it's completely irrelevant if your skill is 30 or 300 the result is the same. The enemy WILL get stunned/frozen. Paired will Thought Control abilities, electroshock pistol and granades, "Tranquility" and "Premeditation" allow you to keep whole crowds stunlocked, if they manage to surive more then 2-3 rounds anyway.

Lastly we have intelligence which you set at 10. No, just no. There is absolutely no point in raising int higher than 7 which is max requirement for crafting feats. It never pays off to invest in a stat beyond feat requirement just to have a bonus to the corresponding skills. The only exception to this is the main weapon skill. So it's either str or dex for melee, per for gun and will for PSI. Everything else is all about meeting the feat requirements.
When it comes to the pistol build you best dump int completely. It's temping to raise it to 7 for nice feats like "Gun Nut", "Practical Physicist", "Ballistics" or "Skinner" but those extra 4 stat points required are going to hurt more somewhere else.

I apologize if I appear rude but your crafter chemist won't have much to laugh at as he is gimped in every possible way. Looking at your feat selection you're missing all essential pistol feats apart from "Opportunist", "Execute" and "Kneecap Shot".


Ok, this is the best pistol build I can come up with as of last patch: Click [i.imgur.com]

So the stat distribution is:
Str 6
Dex 10 -> 15 (at level 24)
Agi 6
Con 3
Per 9 -> 10 (at level 20)
Wil 3
Int 3


The main goal with the stats is to have as high dex as possible which is 15 at level 24. 16 would be the actual limit but for that you would have to lower one of other stats by 1 which would result in losing either "Steadyfast Aim", "Sprint" or "Sharpshooter". Not a good trade for this character.

As this build is based on critical hits it's important to take "Recklessness" and "Steadfast Aim" as early as possible. Most people would go for "Aimed Shot" early which is however a mistake in this build. Not only do you crit fairly often already at level 6, later on you have so many good abilities like "Execute", "Kneecap Shot", "Rapid Fire" which can all crit on their own and there are also PSI abilites you can use often thanks to the "Tranquility" feat. In fact if it wasn't for the "Sharpshooter" requirement I would entirely skip "Aimed Shot" for something else.
One thing I want to mention here: The "Expertise" feast seems to be fairly popular as it gives you +1 mechanical damage. Sounds like a good choice right? Wrong! It actually sucks compared to other feats. First of all, people usually confuse it with +1 mechanical damage to your weapon which would actually be very good but that's not how it works. It adds damage after all other factors are calculated in, so it doesn't scale with your weapon skill or anything except your level. On top of that it doesn't apply to critical hits, so it's a double waste on crit builds like this. When you start executing things for nearly 4K damage, the mere +20 or so seem like a joke. Avoid it for any build, also the unarmed ones that don't crit much but hit often. No matter what character you play there is always a better choice for your precious feat slots.

Alright, the other important thing to explain is how to use PSI abilities properly here. As I said before, PSI system is much broken right now as it allows you to dump will and still be very effective and have awesome crowd control. One big advantage all stealthy builds like this one have is that you can initiate combat on your own terms. If you use sneak properly initiative is irrelevant to you because you should always first switch into turn based mode before engaging foes.
This is where "Tranquility" feat comes extreemly handy: "Reduces the action point cost of all psi abilities by 5 while at full health." When you act first and are able to stun and disable all of characters in the first round, thanks to the -5 AP (plus "Premeditetion" you can keep crowds stunlocked till they drop dead). Only after you get hit for the first time you need to focus more on shooting instead of spamming PSI abilities.

Early you're still hurting for skill points. Besids you combat related skills, you need to work on your lockpicking, hacking, stealth. Ignore crafting for the first few levels. Instead focus on raising Psychokinesis to 30 (for "Electrokinesis") and Methathermics to 35 (for "Cryostasis"). Remember, both can't be resisted so while your low level PSI skills won't do much damage they still work well as early crowd control. I advise to take "Tranquility" somewhere midgame where you can start to afford raising Thought Control. Being able to cast "Cryostasis" and "Mental Brekdown" for 5 AP each is sweet indeed. Invest in Psychokinesis and then Methathermics ONLY after you maxed Thought Control for your current level and are satisfied with your crafting skills. Thought Control can be resisted quite well by enemies since the recent patch but in the last quarter of the game you'll have enough points in all 3 disciplines and they synergize very well between each other so you'll actually be able to offset some of your low PSI skills due to low will.

Crafting, yes you'll still be a crafter but it will take a bit longer till you can make good quality stuff compared to someone with 7 int. Speaking of crafting we come to a key point for this build. You'll focus on crafting and using mainly two weapons:
1. Electroshock pistol
2. .44 hammerer pistol
Chemical guns are good but they still pale compared to electroshock pistol for two reasons. First one is, electroshock pistol is best crowd control weapon in the game (as it stuns like "Electrokinesis" but with much lower AP cost), which also has AoE ability and crits insanely strong when crafted with the Circular Wave Amplifier.
As for the .44 hammerer you need to craft it with the Rapid Reloader (-20% Base AP cost) to be most effective.

If you first raise your dex to 14 (possible at level 16), when on a eel sandwich diet your now 15 dex will allow you to:
Shoot your electroshock gun for 15 AP.
Shoot .44 hammerer for 12 AP.
Execute with hammerer for 17 AP.
Trippleshot (Rapid Fire) with hammerer for 18 AP.
Thats pretty neat for someone who barely got trough half of the game.

Example how your combat can look like at level 16 against 4 enemies (3 with guns, one melee, you have 15 dex with the eel):
- 1st round - initiated combat from stealth, E shock pistol on nearest gun wielder(15 AP - 35 AP left) -> stun,
- activate "Premeditation", perform "Electrokinesis" on one enemy (0 AP - 35 AP left) -> stun,
- perform "Execute" on closest stunned enemy (17 AP - 18 AP left) -> kill
- cast "Cryostasis" on 3rd guy with the gun (5AP because of Tranquility - 13 AP left) -> freeze
- perform "Kneecap Shot" on the melee guy (12 AP - 1 AP left) -> slowed,
- kite away with "Sprint" from the melee guy (in the direction opposite from the frozen guy but if possible him having closer to the stunned dude.

-2nd round - Eshock pistol on the melee guy (15 AP - 35 AP left) -> stun
- "Rapid Fire" on the melee guy (17 AP - 18 AP left) - kill
- normal shot on the guy with the gun who just got out stun (12 AP - 6 AP left)
- if he's still alive cast "Mental Breakdown" on him (5 AP - 1 AP left) -> incapacitated

-3rd round - the other gun dude awakens from "Cryostasis", perform "Electrokinesis" on him (20 AP - 30 AP left) -> stun
- the other guy should really be dead now if "Electrokinesis" conected, if not two .44 shots will kill him for good.

-4th round - deal with the last guy however you see fit, there is no way he can survive your attacks from the full 50 AP pool.

As you can see you can deal with larger groups of enemies without anyone even moving a finger towards you. It all comes down to micromanaging your AP points and cooldowns of abilities and statuseffects on the enemy.

"Point Shot" can come in handy when you have some AP left over and want to squeeze one last shot in. It does have a hefty aim penalty, more even than "Rapid Fire" (not as if it matters against a stunned opponent) and it's not that essential so it fits good as the very last feat to pick.

I'm running out of time now, but later I will post an alternative pistol build which is focused towards constitution. Although it's somewhat less effective in the offense it has a greater survivability so I personally perfer it to first build because I play Underrail permadeath style - No reloading on death or any other bad/good event.
Last edited by Wildan; May 7 @ 3:08pm
MrMuse May 7 @ 4:05pm 
Sheesh dude...you're taking the fun out of it...who cares about "perfect" builds? This isn't IMBA Warcraft. His original post was about builds that work...whilst it may be lacking for the build he intended it clearly "worked". *shrug*. I'm guessing my Psi Ninja isn't close to perfect either but with a stealth rating of 80 and only 17 points in it I'm happy (for example). Your point about grabbing the right feats is valid but not NECESSARY. I'm loving pyrokinesis for example. And yes FF psi gives great crowd control.
Holocausm May 7 @ 5:10pm 
Crit Pistol/Crafter/Riot Armor Build: I've tested this to Level 12 now (Normal/Oddity Difficulty), and while I'm changing a few of the stats here to a more ideal (I think) it works fairly well, although the damage is a bit bursty, and a bit squishy at times, it's definitely fun. I find very few games where I can run with a pistol and shield, so this was nice to see.

Starting Stats: Str - 6, Dex - 8, Agi - 3, Con - 5, Per - 8, Will - 3, Int - 7
Starting Feats - Aimed Shot and Gunslinger
Additional Feats - Rapid Fire, Steadfast Aim, Recklessness, Critical Power, Opportunist, Sharpshooter, Execute, Ballistics, Clothier, Disassemble (Not necessarily in this order)
Stat Point Level Ups - Perception to 10, Dex after that.
Skills - Guns, Throwing, Lockpick, Hacking, All Crafting Skills,
Gear - Seeker goggles, riot armor with shield, shield emitter (high range), electroshock pistol and .44 (possibly plasma pistol as well).

Playstyle - Close range killing using pistols and grenades. Good resists against guns and melee, but squishy to other damage. High damage (after appropriate perks) using a stun with the electroshock pistol and following up with a .44 or plasma pistol shot. Can craft anything.

You could probably switch around con into more dex, per, or int if you're really brave. The 6 str is needed for steadfast aim and the heaviest riot armor. 7 int for most of the crafting perks, and you'll need 10 perception for sharpshooter.
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