pikmonwolf Apr 17 @ 9:28am
Discussing the flaws of Morrowind.
I already know what the responses to this will be. I'l surely get a "Your just a filthy casual who can't handle a real RPG." or maybe "Stupid Skyrim fanboys." perhaps even the good old "Must be a troll." but this game is incredibly overrated.

Let me tell you about a little thing called nostalgia, the dictionary definition is "pleasure and sadness that is caused by remembering something from the past and wishing that you could experience it again" this is why so many people like this game. I am pretty sure that most of the playerbase got this when they were young, and it reminds them of a happier time. They are the ones who go around blindling yelling how good it is. I will try to show you my counters

The combat in this game is god awful and if you don't see any flaws in it then you need to realize how much of a fanboy you are. The random chance makes no sense and takes all strategy out of combat. I have never held a sledge hammer in my life, but I guarentee you I could hit a guy with it. It is not "realistic" to miss people as much as your character does, I am willing to bet your character would lose in a fist fight with you. It is more realistic for your damage to go up, since you would get better at using your weapon and therefor better at hitting hard. The random chance doesn't aloow strategy since there is literally nothing you can do to make it better without leveling up many times. Look at a game like XCOM, it's combat is done with a random chance, but there are factors to it. Your chance of hitting somebody goes up the closer you are to them. Keep in mind that in Morrowinfd you still have to hit the people you are fighting, you have to make contact with your weapon and once you have done so, the game decides if you made contact. There is no method to it, you can't try to avoid there attacks then hit them when the moment is right, just click and load your last save until the world decides that win your fight.

Characters are non-existant. Give the personality of any NPC who is not part of a quest-line, you can't can you. The lack of voice acting could be forgiven, but there is no personality, they are all just lore vending machines with copy-pasted dialogue. Skyrim may not have any realy memorable characters either, but at least they have personalities!

The journal is god awful. I will agree that it is annoying that the only way to know where to go in Skyrim is by the quest markers, since the journal isn't useful. The thing is, Morrowind's journal is hardly any better. The lack of organization and really bad directions, it is terrible. What is worse, following a marker that tells you where to go or constantly opening the journal trying to decipher directions and searching the same area for an hour trying to find the path. Some missions have completely wrong directions, it's a nightmare.

I don't blame people for liking it, even the aspects I have listed. People who do are only huge Morrowind fans. Don't use these in arguements against Skyrim. This game has the fan base it does because of fond memories, not because it still holds up. Feel free to like it and refuse to see the flaws in it, but please don't posting that you are right in the most smug way possible. (I get that it is kind of ironic, but I am countering some of the main points used to say Morrowind>Skyrim, I have seen all of these used to call Skyrim casual like it is the worst thing a game can be.) I'm sure some people will find Morrowind and like it, but those people make up a fraction of it's player base.

I am sick of people like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JweTAhyR4o0
Last edited by pikmonwolf; Apr 18 @ 12:11pm
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Ygolnac Apr 17 @ 9:54am 
I absolutly love Skyrim, spent nearly 1000 hours on it.

I hate people that says that Skyrim is crap and everyone thinking different is just a casual fanboy. i like Bethesda policies and the direction they are taking with their games and I'm looking forward to Fallout 4 in anticipation.

Thus being said, you are the same of the one you criticize, but in reverse order. If someone prefears Morrowind over Skyrim is not an elitist old school. Tastes are tastes, and having absolute opinions is always a mistake. In games like this immersion is everything, if someone does not get immersed for some reasons they can't enjoy. That's what happened with me and Oblivion. But i don't think the ones that liked Oblivion or prefear it over Skyrim are crazy. All Bethesda products have super quality and technology.

Morrowind had superior writing, the mainquest is far more interesting and better written than Skyrim's. It has an incredibly fresh and weird world, something unique in a fantasy setting. And it is appelling and fun even 12 years after release. Combat system is cluncky, but is also very rewarding when you master it. Skyrim becomes too easy too soon.

I'm enjoying my current playthrough, so mine can't be nostalgia becouse I'm playing Morrowind (with all its pros and cons) today.

Even if there are people that will not enjoy anything after Morrowind becouse they sink in nostalgia, there are also other people who prefears it over tastes, and posts like yours only strengthen their ideas.
pikmonwolf Apr 17 @ 10:04am 
Originally posted by Ygolnac:
I absolutly love Skyrim, spent nearly 1000 hours on it.

I hate people that says that Skyrim is crap and everyone thinking different is just a casual fanboy. i like Bethesda policies and the direction they are taking with their games and I'm looking forward to Fallout 4 in anticipation.

Thus being said, you are the same of the one you criticize, but in reverse order. If someone prefears Morrowind over Skyrim is not an elitist old school. Tastes are tastes, and having absolute opinions is always a mistake. In games like this immersion is everything, if someone does not get immersed for some reasons they can't enjoy. That's what happened with me and Oblivion. But i don't think the ones that liked Oblivion or prefear it over Skyrim are crazy. All Bethesda products have super quality and technology.

Morrowind had superior writing, the mainquest is far more interesting and better written than Skyrim's. It has an incredibly fresh and weird world, something unique in a fantasy setting. And it is appelling and fun even 12 years after release. Combat system is cluncky, but is also very rewarding when you master it. Skyrim becomes too easy too soon.

I'm enjoying my current playthrough, so mine can't be nostalgia becouse I'm playing Morrowind (with all its pros and cons) today.

Even if there are people that will not enjoy anything after Morrowind becouse they sink in nostalgia, there are also other people who prefears it over tastes, and posts like yours only strengthen their ideas.

You have some good points. I am kind of feeding the trolls by posting this, but after seeing so many threads where they say how "Skyrim is crap" and "Morrowind is the best game of all time with no flaws and if you diagree you are a candy druch loving casual" I got fed up and decided to post this.

You are right that immersion can save a game, and it is rather subjective what is immersive, I tried to take a more objective look at this. I disagree about the writing though, the plot may be more interesting but the amount of emotionless copy-paste NPCs are terrible.

I really tried to like Morrowind, I have nine hours in that game but all of them were dreadful. I did play Skyrim first, but I don't really have nostalgia for it since my life hasn't changed much since I got it. I haven't seen anybody that didn't start with Morrowind like it the most.
EgoMaster Apr 17 @ 10:20am 
Originally posted by pikmonwolf:
The combat in this game is god awful and if you disagree then you need to realize how much of a fanboy you are.
It's enlightening that you define the word fanboy as "people who like Morrowind's combat" but what about me, good sir/madam? I don't consider Morrowind's combat better or worse than Skyrim. It's just different. It's dice rolled and maybe because I'm accustomed to the system, I don't have any trouble with it. While I prefer dice roll system in general to actiony combat of Skyrim (in a game that calls itself RPG), I acknowledge the fact that in Morrowind, combat feedback is god awful. You don't know if you missed because of dice roll or facing the wrong direction. If anything, dice rolled combat is more suited for third person games and with "automatic enemy facing" like Bioware's older titles.

But combat has always been the weak link of TES games. "Swing the mouse to swing your sword" system of Arena and Daggerfall is unnecessarily hard. I prefer Dark Messiah of Might and Magic's, hell, even Thief: The Dark Project's combat over all the games of the series. That being said, "Morrowind is the best in the series" is my opinion too. My introduction to the series, Daggerfall coming in close behind (if only it wasn't procedurely generated), Skyrim is in a proud third place.
Last edited by EgoMaster; Apr 17 @ 10:21am
pikmonwolf Apr 17 @ 10:25am 
Originally posted by EgoMaster:
Originally posted by pikmonwolf:
The combat in this game is god awful and if you disagree then you need to realize how much of a fanboy you are.
It's enlightening that you define the word fanboy as "people who like Morrowind's combat" but what about me, good sir/madam? I don't consider Morrowind's combat better or worse than Skyrim. It's just different. It's dice rolled and maybe because I'm accustomed to the system, I don't have any trouble with it. While I prefer dice roll system in general to actiony combat of Skyrim (in a game that calls itself RPG), I acknowledge the fact that in Morrowind, combat feedback is god awful. You don't know if you missed because of dice roll or facing the wrong direction. If anything, dice rolled combat is more suited for third person games and with "automatic enemy facing" like Bioware's older titles.

But combat has always been the weak link of TES games. "Swing the mouse to swing your sword" system of Arena and Daggerfall is unnecessarily hard. I prefer Dark Messiah of Might and Magic's, hell, even Thief: The Dark Project's combat over all the games of the series. That being said, "Morrowind is the best in the series" is my opinion too. Daggerfall coming in close behind (if only it wasn't procedurely generated), Skyrim is in a proud third place.

Maybe I should have been clearer, it is not liking that makes you a fanboy. You acknowledge that it has issues and jsut doesn't really, also admitting that you probably like it because yo uare used to it. The people who annoy me are the ones who say it is an amazing system with no issues then call people who disagree "casual" the same way a white supremacist calls a black man a... well you know.
spaneika Apr 17 @ 10:34am 
I'm in the same thought with you. I played Oblivion first, then Skyrim, and now Morrowind. I am having a blast playing Morrowind, although i do recognize its flaws and merits though. There is a greater sense of freedom and exploration in MW then in Skyrim, simply because of spells such as levitate, water walking, etc.

Although everybody is entitled to their own opinion and what they prefer, i have a hard time believing people when they say that they PREFER the combat in MW versus Skyrim.... that just doesn't make sense to me, simply because as you said, there is no strategy really involved.
pikmonwolf Apr 17 @ 10:37am 
Honestly, I'm a little shocked how many reasonable people have responded. I was expecting a lot of the usual arguements "It's just to hard for you!" and "You just can't handle a real RPG." are my points really that good or have the fanboys not caught wind of this post yet?
spaneika Apr 17 @ 10:39am 
Oh, and one more thing that I cannot grasp: there are many purists who believe that you should play MW today in 2014 with no graphic mods whatsoever :D The "you need to play vanilla MW to truly enjoy it" argument is just mind-blowing.
spaneika Apr 17 @ 10:40am 
Originally posted by pikmonwolf:
Honestly, I'm a little shocked how many reasonable people have responded. I was expecting a lot of the usual arguements "It's just to hard for you!" and "You just can't handle a real RPG." are my points really that good or have the fanboys not caught wind of this post yet?

the fanatics have not seen your post yet lol
pikmonwolf Apr 17 @ 10:40am 
Originally posted by spaneika:
Oh, and one more thing that I cannot grasp: there are many purists who believe that you should play MW today in 2014 with no graphic mods whatsoever :D The "you need to play vanilla MW to truly enjoy it" argument is just mind-blowing.
Are there really people who do that? Sheesh, the Morrowind fanbase sounds like it would drink the kool-aid if a mission told them to.
spaneika Apr 17 @ 11:02am 
Now don't get me wrong though, i don't necessarily think that the game survives on nostalgia. As you've seen in your post here, there are plenty of players that enjoy the game today, sans nostalgia goggles. However, it would be silly to ignore the key mods that have been created to enhance the experience for a proper 2014 enjoyment.

IMHO, mods like MGSO, Passive Cliffracers, Fair Magicka Regen, and Speed and Stamina mods are absolutely MANDATORY to properly enjoy this game in all its glory.
Ygolnac Apr 17 @ 11:26am 
Originally posted by spaneika:
Now don't get me wrong though, i don't necessarily think that the game survives on nostalgia. As you've seen in your post here, there are plenty of players that enjoy the game today, sans nostalgia goggles. However, it would be silly to ignore the key mods that have been created to enhance the experience for a proper 2014 enjoyment.

IMHO, mods like MGSO, Passive Cliffracers, Fair Magicka Regen, and Speed and Stamina mods are absolutely MANDATORY to properly enjoy this game in all its glory.

Important thing is that you enjoy the game period.
MGSO, passive cliffracers are amust for me too.
Speed+, magicka regen and the fast travel, in my opinion, don't give you the real experience. there are also mods that removes dice rolls from combat making it like skyrim. I personally think that to have the morrowind experience you must feel some pain.

But most of all i think that everybody should have teir fun, and if for new players enjoying (thus keeping alive) the game means modding it to remove all the pain, just go for it and have fun.

To OP, getting immersed in Morrowind in 2014 IS particulary difficult. Graphics are outdated and all the experience feels more clunky, so i can feel you. If only you could pss that 9 hours markers and get involved in to the main quest...
Coalheart Apr 17 @ 12:59pm 
Morrowind is my favorite game of all time. It's not nostalgia, I just happen to love it. It's not perfect, but it's really, really good. Some one preferring something older doesn't automatically equal "Nostalgia".

I prefer Citizen Kane to Battlefield Earth. It's a matter of quality, not age. Calling folks "fanboys" and thinking that just because you don't like it that it must be "nostalgia" is just...beh, nevermind, as they say, if ya can't say something nice.
Herne the Hunter Apr 17 @ 12:59pm 
Morrowind is more like a tabletop rpg
Coalheart Apr 17 @ 1:05pm 
Originally posted by Herne the Hunter:
Morrowind is more like a tabletop rpg

Agreed. If I had never played Pen and Paper RPGs , if I had never even heard of D&D or any games based on those and had only played "modern" games and then played Morrowind, I would probably think it was garbage.
Last edited by Coalheart; Apr 17 @ 1:08pm
Originally posted by Coalheart:
Originally posted by Herne the Hunter:
Morrowind is more like a tabletop rpg

Agreed. If I had never played Pen and Paper RPGs , if I had never even heard of D&D or any games based on those and had only played "modern" games and then played Morrowind, I would probably think it was garbage.

Tabletop is like Planescape torment, Baldurs Gate, and Fallout right? (I own all of these)
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