Community Update 10/22

[Kaboom]

Windborne is a labor of love for all of us at Hidden Path Entertainment- it’s our only fully self-funded project, and for many of us represents the game we’ve always wanted to make. While self-funding a game can be exciting, it also can be really frustrating too- things are less predictable and often slower than we want. We understand the frustrations and loss of patience from those in our community; we apologize for our part in this. We are here and we hear you.

We are striving to make Windborne the best adventure/creation sandbox title out there. One of the reasons we decided to launch the title on Early Access was to get community feedback as well as try to accelerate our development schedule (the viability of self-funding is subject to the whims of other business).

We are learning how Early Access works, as well as learning how development works while running a live game. We are succeeding and failing as we go.

Along those lines we discovered that overly communicating and putting our goals out there was good and bad. It was great when we met and exceeded our hopes, but if we made a guess and failed to deliver, not so much. The negative became very negative, and because of this we pulled back in our communications about the process of development. This obviously didn’t work out either. We are trying to discover that sweet spot of how often we communicate and how much we communicate. At the moment we do not have much to share other than that we will develop and release Windborne.

That is a great segue to the second reason we chose to go Early Access; we were hoping it would fast track the journey to release. We knew this game would take around three years to develop on the scale we wanted, with the ups and downs of our ability to self-fund. We thought Early Access was a great opportunity to speed up development by allowing us to spin up the team and then hopefully it would cover their cost and time through launch. It did bring in money, and we spun up the team, but it only lasted a short time. Our original plan of three years was temporarily shortened, but now we have to go back to being realistic. Because we’re still out there in Early Access this could change again, but right now we’re back developing at a what-we-can-self-fund pace.

We love our community here at Hidden Path and we do listen. Just as we delivered DG2 to our supporters after the Kickstarter fell short, we are as fully committed to finishing Windborne.

Cheers,
Kaboom and the entire HPE Team

[[gbx]vr00mie]

As a fellow dev, this is a genuine and honest post about the trials of the development process. Thank you for the update and I look forward to the future. :)

[SleuthSlayer]

Thank you for the update Kaboom :) It is good to hear that Windborne development is moving forward.

Perhaps something like bi-weekly updates would work? Even if there is not much to share, just so we know things are moving forward.

[Quantic Mage]

Thank you, Kaboom.

[Gigs]

Missing goals is part of life. players can understand that. Thank you for letting us know the light is still on. Total lack of communication is really the only thing players can't accept. You might have some that demand dev milestones met, but most of us will be cool if we know you guys are doing what you do and not leaving it behind.

[LoneGunman]

I'm glad to hear there's still a commitment at HPE for Windborne development.

I do feel communications is a big part of the problem when it comes to HPE's relationship with the community. Early Access is an early funding opportunity for sure but it's also an opportunity to engage true fans of the game. Not everyone who buys into EA is necessarily a true fan: people maybe see what they want but it might not be there yet. However, I feel true fans do buy into EA because they know what it means.

While it can be difficult managing the different relationships--dealing with those who bought the game thinking it was done or close to only to realise it isn't or those who expect a release schedule like some other titles--understanding that and addressing the concens you can't control as customer service issues and focusing more time on community building through engagement in the development process would lead to a much better outcome.

This is Steam. The forums are legendary for the types of trolls that will appear. But, when a community is strong through the commitment of those customers like the many I've seen answering questions and keeping the trolls at bay on the Windborne forums and the backing of the developer through a relatively open development process with a healthy dose of honesty, the community thrives and the trolls are muted out by the louder chorus of that happier community.

My hope is that lessons were learned and--from the top of the organization down to the customer-facing personnel like Kaboom and Echo amongst others--a stronger commitment to working with your community exists coming out of this "dark" period. As a community, we're here because we love the game and the philosophy behind it and because we're more than happy to help out. You're getting a free QA department filled with the very people who will play your game and tell their friends to play it as well.

We bought into Early access due to our commitment and interest in the game. You've got an incredible resource at your disposal here. It would be a shame to lose it.

[Cadfael]

Thanks for the update. Please keep at it because this is a cool game.

[3dloki]

I'll just leave this hear and then make my exit for now, if an actual update ever does come out maybe I'll return.

this was NOT an "update" nothing "new" was revealed here, and this sort of thing has already been said by Echo months ago. (and sorry I will not be taking any more time to hunt down / paste / quote those older versions, but search the forums and you'll see them yourselves)

the community has begged for information and the devs went dark, broke 'promises' (on NOT going dark for example) and other things.

and I can't help but wonder if this thread would even exist if Megazazazaz had not started the "invasion" of the DG2 forums (Something I myself wanted to do for weeks now lol)

The community has addressed HUGE issues with the game going back all the way to May ? June that have been totally ignored / not addressed by the dev team nor the community manager.

you guys "kicked a**" when you first hit early access, not with updates, information or anything like that mind you, but you DID take the proper steps to get people interested and passionate about the game.

A simple google search shows all the people who reviewed the game and loved it (and back then there was NOTHING to love but an idea and proof of concept!!!)

When the World Traveler update went live you did nothing and money wise that was your first mistake, why you never bothered to follow up with those pre early access / early access reviewers is so far beyond me, even I mentioned via messages and emails that if it was an issue of time and resources I would draft a letter for approval and contact those people for updated reviews..... I was flat out ignored. (I even offered references so I could be properly vetted)

And it's not like people from HPE did not hit my linkedin page as it shows me who visits my page lol so those who did look saw I'm not just some obsessed fanboy but a person who's been hired by multiple national companies for marketing, consulting, brand building, graphics etc. you need money to fund your passion project? that means you need SALES, and you don't get SALES by doing zero promotions, not following up, getting key people into your game, or not giving out any free review or promo keys.

You reached out to the community and said things like:

it's up to YOU to spread the word

and when it came to the wiki for the game, again it was up to us the community, but any requests for art assets were ignored for SEVEN weeks and then the "official" response was

use screenshots from in game

Again, a total drop of the ball there, it would have taken 10-20 minutes for someone at the office to zip up the contents from those data0001.hpz files and provide them to the community.

I could go on and on here, but it's futile, it appears you have placated the masses here by regurgitating the same excuses you've used in the past and STILL have nothing "new" to report or release.

I'm out, good luck to everyone, if lag, multiplayer etc get fixed, actual new content gets added in someone let me know.

[Hido]

Well.. we'll see if the things start to change instead of keeping the way the were. Or are these words just simply words...
I'll still keep an eye on the forums.

[Azraile]

Least there is some responce..... still haven't hurd anything from my e-mail though, not even automated. I would realy like to help on this, I know a lot about this kinda game and modding is very important and there is a lot of potential in a few factors I think your overlooking. It could allow some amazing things to happen.

[Streiben]

Shut up give me my money back.

No development, just words.

Empty, void words.

Empty void purse.

Empty void game.

Emtpy void promises.

[Joreel]

Thanks for letting us know that things are still moving forward Kaboom. I know the community can be hard on you guys, but it's only because he love the game and are passionate about seeing it to completion. I hope the live streams resume in the near future :-).

[WarPidgey]

Thank you for the communication. I really like this game, and hope to see more in the future. Until then, I will continue to enjoy the lovely scenery and music. Thanks for all your work, and don't let the negativity keep you down. :)

[Kestryll]

The thing to remember is that the Devs are not just Devs. They are the heart and soul of the community. When you create the game, you also create the community.

- Don't ignore the community. Otherwise, the childish trolls come out to play and ruin it for the rest of us. Up to, and including, telling others not to purchase the game...
- Don't make promises you can't keep. Simple as that. It's better to say, "Yes, we are working on it." Than, "We'll have something next week." Then not have anything to say "next week".

Other than that. THOSE elements of the community can go feed themselves to the pinchers. Until HPE staff tells me the game is dead, I'll still be here. I bought it, I'm going to play it, and I'm going to enjoy it.
XP!!

[Azraile]

Originally posted by Streiben:

Shut up give me my money back.

No development, just words.

Empty, void words.

Empty void purse.

Empty void game.

Emtpy void promises.

You should know that most early access games are alpha or beta at the best and are atleast a year from finished.... most are in alpha though or pre-alpha and are in the 5 years or more till finished area.

If you don't look into what your spending your money on then your throwing it away and it's only your fult.

Early access is a way to help struggling developers get the funding they need to produice a game and get it out faster. You are helping them fund the game, buy buying it far before it's done.

You think it's bad thing sare slow....... people re-ordered that duke nukem flop 13 years before it came out and they didn't get to have anything untill release day.... and some didn't get anything because the places they preordered with had gone out of buesness

[LoneGunman]

(sorry this is long)

While you're right azraile about what Early Access is, there's a big difference between putting money up for a pre-order and putting money up for EA. Duke Nukem is a really extreme case. It's like trying to justify a point about investment in airlines by using an example of an aircraft that was downed by aliens.

The speed isn't the exact issue. The issue here is EA is effectively an investment. And as with any investment, the investor expects to be kept in the loop about what's going on.

Do we need to be told about every daily update and to-do list item checked off? No.

Do we need updates every week (even though some manage to pull this off)? No.

What we need is regular communications and updates about the state of the game and any upcoming updates, just like anyone would like to see with a released game. The difference is a released game is, more often than not, done at release. There may be expansions or DLC and there are always bug fixes but those come with different expectations and schedules of their own.

All we really needed here, really, was some honesty. Instead of waiting for weeks to inform us about what's going on, there should've been a frank post and resulting discussion that essentially was the OP above. Tell us you're a small shop and you need to wrap up DG2. That you're expecting this and that (even if that ends up being wrong because, development is unpredictable at times). Don't tell us "Everything's fine! We've got more to talk about soon!" then just walk away and don't say anything. Worse, when people are asking where the update is that you promised them, you actually ignore them. When has that ever been a viable solution to a contentious situation?

A couple weeks after that original promise, there could've been another message: "Guys, we're sorry but DG2's taking more time. We promised we're going to come back strong with Windborne but it may take a bit longer." And when a couple weeks later, DG2's released and, as usual, there are bugs to fix and balance issues and the like, you post "Guys, we're sorry but we've got to delay some more. We've got bugs to contend with, etc."

Will people still complain? Of course. But knowing this community, I think a lot of people would also understand and more importantly be happy to know they weren't abandoned.

Look at how it looked to us. We were going to get an update after a couple of weeks and nothing. Kaboom just skirted the issue. Playdates were scheduled, build challenges were posted, like nothing changed or was wrong. Meanwhile, people are asking what's going on? Is anything happening? Soon, people are asking if the game's dead, if development's stopped. Not a word.

Not only that, DG2 released (which we all pegged as the reason for the delay in updates and which we all understood). We got it. Small shop, again. Lots to do. Then still nothing. Worse, you soon hear about an upcoming port of DG2 to Mac and Linux. Okay, last I checked, that isn't a decision you make at the last minute. Unless you miraculously picked a game engine that was easy to port over and you hadn't done your research until release date. Still no word.

I've been developing Web applications and software for 15 years. I run tech departments. Most of my career has been spent in startups and small companies; companies that have to struggle to balance small teams with multiple products and last minute RFPs and deals that we wanted to win to help bring the company to that next level. I get all of this. I'm very rational about the whole thing because I understand.

The one thing that bothers me and that I don't understand was the lack of communication. I've followed game development for years (longer than this career--starting back in another life when I was in another career path). The old standard has always been (and still is with some devs) to keep a clamp on everything. Mostly for IP reasons (you can't copyright ideas) but also because PR and marketing departments (as well as the CEO's office and the MBAs running the companies) worry about that one bit of bad news tanking a game's prospects when it still has another year or two of development coming.

In this day of Kickstarter and Early Access on Steam, that old standard is gone, at least for games funded that way. Funding a game 100% by yourself? Do whatever you want. But, as many game devs have learned of late, there's a great deal to be gained by involving a subset of your target demographic early. Game development's often hit or miss because it's a largely creative endeavor. Having the input of the very people who are going to play your game is the equivalent of letting a restaurant's customers taste the sauce as the chef tries to figure out his or her recipes.

There are pros and cons. But with EA, you don't really have a choice, to be honest. There's a higher risk involved here as your customers invest in your game which may not even make it to release day. In return, we expect a certain amount of openness and interaction. You don't have to show us your financials and have a web cam in your daily meetings. However, you also can't just cut off communications and expect things to be fine.

We can wait longer for updates. We may not want to but we can. We have. But we have to know two things: when that update's coming (however vague) and what to expect. And, guess what? It's okay to say "I don't know". As long as you can follow that up with something better soon after. "When's this feature coming?" "I don't know but it's on our list. The next update should have X and Y." (...a week later...) "Guys, it turns out Y came with a lot of issues so we're delaying that. However, X should be ready in a week."

It's not that hard really. Ultimately, though, it comes down to respecting each other and maintaining a solid relationship. Is it easy? No. But it's also not that hard at all. And it's not set in stone either. Evolve. Figure out what works and what doesn't. Just don't wait for months to pass.