Grim Dawn's No Cheat Clan (Steam Group)

[Losse]

I just want to make it clear that I have NO problem with people that want to edit/mod the game to make it easier, but I personally don't want to do that myself or play with people that do.

Here is what I am thinking:

I know this is the honor system so I dont know if this will work but we can give it a try. The problem may be that the definition of cheating will be different for everyone. If it doesn't work, no money lost.

Please do not use any mods that make the game easier, other than bank storage space. We can remove the bank space if we get overwhelming complaints for allowing it I guess.

Examples of cheating mods or game tweaks would be:

Increasing power of your chracter.
Giving characters more iron or items.
Reducing power of monsters.
Increasing drop rates.
Increasing move speed.
Removing fog of war.
Duping of any kind (characters, items, iron) using mods or by manipulating save game files.
Auto completing quests.
Map Hacks
Etc, etc.

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/GDNCC

Update: As of 10-17-2017 > The group is: Open - Anyone can join and invite their friends

[rage]

Is there any way to tell if an item has been duped?

[Percello]

I'm interested in joining. Personally, I dislike cheats/mods. The game is alot more fun without them, plus, I like the fact that I have to work towards getting items I need vs just pressing a button and getting it.

[powbam]

Originally posted by rage:

Is there any way to tell if an item has been duped?

If you take a txt file on your computer, copy it, then paste it elsewhere, is there anyway to tell that you 'duped' it besides the fact that you know it was done because you are the being who committed the deed?

Nope.

That's what 'duping' is. Duplication. Copy and paste from an 'existing' item/object.

Now, if you mean duping as in bringing it into existence thru other means, then the answer would still likely be a resounding, nope.

There are certain checks and balances that can be done I suppose but nothing that would 'stick' for long since hacker and modder types would devise means to circumvent any obstacles in short order. I don't believe that Crate is interested in that kind of electronic warfare with their community at the present time. It would be a waste of resources and time to fight a continual battle with a game they intended to be modded from the outset. It would boil down to a constant tug of war between them and the people who are enjoying their game. Not worth it.

I'm not big on cheating myself, except for testing purposes, but I would like to remind people that not all 'modding' is 'cheating' for the sake of cheating. To me, cheating is cheating. Modding is making new items, quests, CONTENT, skills, masteries, story ETC. Modding is something that ADDS to the experience, EXTENDS the experience and even in many cases IMPROVES the experience. Cheating is enabling a function that circumvents normal gameplay to give the player an advantage of some kind not intended thru normal play. Real mods are usually intended and created to be played in a mostly normal 'vanilla' fashion or in a balanced fashion of some kind. Real mods are often done by talented artistic people with experience in art/animation/game-making/level-making or people who are trying to learn these skills to be used as a hobby or a stepping stone on the way to a more professional career.

I believe the distinction is important and the difference should be noted and stressed wherever possible since there are many people in this day and age who still think modding is for 'hackers'/'cheaters' and other devious, negative connotations. This is a misrepresentation of the truth and gives modding a bad name.

Enlighten yourselves and enlighten the ignorant.

Edit: to be clear, this slight 'rant' was not directed at the OP. It is clear from his post that he, at least, understands the distinction. This is for the ones who bundle the concept together with no understanding what they are talking about.

[Ceno]

Originally posted by powbam:

Originally posted by rage:

Is there any way to tell if an item has been duped?

If you take a txt file on your computer, copy it, then paste it elsewhere, is there anyway to tell that you 'duped' it besides the fact that you know it was done because you are the being who committed the deed?

Nope.

There are ways to tell if someone is playing "by the rules" or not. But they are expensive (in the computational sense). And in the scope of Grim Dawn, you could make it reasonably difficult for someone to break the protective system.

If, every time a user accessed their shared stash (as this is generally the principal of duping) you logged that access time to the character file through a cryptographic hash, you'd have a "checksum" of sorts with which to compare future stash files. If the last modified date of the stash file does not match the date stored in the character file, wipe the stash clean before letting the character access it.

//how to check the last modified date of a file in Java:
File file = new File("my_file");
SimpleDateFormat sdf = new SimpleDateFormat("MM/dd/yyyy HH:mm:ss");
String date = sdf.format(file.lastModified());

You could skip the SimpleDateFormat part, I guess, since there's no reason to make anything readable.

The glaring problem with this is twofold: one, you need to hash not only the date of the file but also the data of the character file itself so that one can't simply copy/paste hashes to beat the system. Two, you need to do this FOR ALL characters a player has so that you can't dupe between multiple characters and so that when one character changes the transfer file another character is capable of still using it.

Practical? No. But entirely possible nonetheless. A cryptographic hash like SHA-256 would more or less prevent any cheating-tool program from breaking this system within any reasonable time (i.e., years). Sadly, this DOES NOT prevent a player from duping character saves, only stash files...


--------------------------------------

Anyways, as a modder for Grim Dawn, I still hope you guys will use what I make. Making the game easier is basically the exact opposite of what I'm working on (aside from a few new items to find as well that change the dynamics of your characters). So if that's all you're worried about, have no fear from me!

I won't join such a group, and I've indirectly explained why on the main forums. After release, once I've got several hundred or thousand hours under my belt, chances are I won't be playing legitimately for much longer. I grow too bored of the early game. :P Plan to send myself straight into Ultimate with a lot of characters, and give them capable-enough gear to reasonably work within the difficulty.

Nonetheless, for those that aren't bothered by that idea, I certainly wouldn't mind joining you in a game (when my internet works)!

[powbam]

Originally posted by Ceno:

There are ways to tell if someone is playing "by the rules" or not. But they are expensive (in the computational sense). And in the scope of Grim Dawn, you could make it reasonably difficult for someone to break the protective system.

I know there are ways Ceno.. but nothing that can't be countered and nullified. And I'm sure you and others would work hard to negate any attempts.

In the end it would be a waste of time and resources. I'm sure Rhis and Zantai have better things to do ;)

[Ceno]

Originally posted by powbam:

And I'm sure you ... would work hard to negate any attempts.

:/

I have no interest in enabling cheating. I'm not an enabler. I'm a tech hoarder instead, so if I found a way to break something (in this context), I wouldn't share. >:D

[powbam]

Originally posted by Ceno:

Originally posted by powbam:

And I'm sure you ... would work hard to negate any attempts.

:/

I have no interest in enabling cheating. I'm not an enabler. I'm a tech hoarder instead, so if I found a way to break something (in this context), I wouldn't share. >:D

haha well if not you some other yokel, I'm sure. There's always someone else who will.

[DeadByDefault]

I am definitely interested in joining the group. I have never liked cheaters, hackers, trolls, game-breakers etc. 100% cheat free and hack free on my side.

[Skyhaster]

Hey, Losse! I am interested! Hope we'll have a lot of fun all together.

I am always looking for people to play!

[Ceno]

Originally posted by Losse:

Examples of cheating mods or game tweaks would be:
[...]
Removing fog of war.
[...]
Map Hacks

wat. So...what's FoW then if it isn't maphacking?

[YontEvnKnow]

Im all for this, though, once the game is out, i will likely use mods to make the game more difficult and "fun".

[DeadByDefault]

Originally posted by YontEvnKnow:

Im all for this, though, once the game is out, i will likely use mods to make the game more difficult and "fun".

That's not cheating, though, so it's fine. I'm probably going to create some additional challenge areas for hardcore players which will make the Steps of Torment look like a walk in the (undead) park once the game has been released. ^^

[Ricky Sauce]

Originally posted by Ceno:

If, every time a user accessed their shared stash (as this is generally the principal of duping) you logged that access time to the character file through a cryptographic hash, you'd have a "checksum" of sorts with which to compare future stash files. If the last modified date of the stash file does not match the date stored in the character file, wipe the stash clean before letting the character access it.

There are ways around that and any good hacker would figure it out. :)

Though, that could cause issues for legit players in the long run. I'd hate to lose my stash because there was a core dump in the middle of my game causing the checksum to mismatch.

[powbam]

Originally posted by Swank Stedly:

There are ways around that and any good hacker would figure it out. :)

Though, that could cause issues for legit players in the long run. I'd hate to lose my stash because there was a core dump in the middle of my game causing the checksum to mismatch.

Thankfully most 'hackers' are familiar with the concept of backing up (or that 'other' term, duping) their saves/stash :)

[Ricky Sauce]

Originally posted by powbam:

Originally posted by Swank Stedly:

There are ways around that and any good hacker would figure it out. :)

Though, that could cause issues for legit players in the long run. I'd hate to lose my stash because there was a core dump in the middle of my game causing the checksum to mismatch.

Thankfully most 'hackers' are familiar with the concept of backing up (or that 'other' term, duping) their saves/stash :)

The average player isn't and if a crash of the game causes them to lose their stash... I imagine they'd be pretty pissed.