Is Rome 2 Cinematic? (Discussion, or debate)

[Lord]

Everywhere i look CA says this game is SO cinematic, but is it? and what does that mean? They've used the word so much i'm not sure if i know what it means anymore.....

What do I mean by cinematic? When I say cinematic, I'm talking about zooming out, and enjoying the view of both armies clashing with distinct grace; I'm talking about looking back at the buildings and looking in awe as large buildings crumble and watch as units traverse the beautiful terrain.

What R2TW (I will not say TW:R2... it's stupid) does well for cinematics is exactly SOME of that; the building design and 'crumble' physics and the nice natural formations of the terrain and flora.... and the cinematic camera, where its only good use is whatching your troops march to battle, but not the battle itself.

However in my opinion, where cinematics should've been focused on, was the actual battles where we could see the clashing of whole units. I'm aware that CA knows there are issues with units mashing into each other, where zooming out makes it even worse XD, nonetheless it kills the immersion, whether or not it is a bug or AI scripting mistake needing an update. (i know there's a mod to fix this issue to SOME extent, but that 'moshpit' is still there)

I remember in Medieval 2 TW being able to zoom out felt satisfied watching as these huge lines of infantry clashed and held formation, there was no pointless unit camera (only the option to restrict yourself to your general's vision), there was only that feeling of epicness, watching artillery fire gradually clash into enemy lines, the sight of arrows fire in waves of awesomness, and watching tha nice line of cavalry like the Rohirrim (from the battle of pelennor fields, LotR Return of the King Movie). This includes previous titles (even Empire TW :P).

What are your thoughts? (I want an intellectual debate please, or discussion, no morons.... I realise I'm asking too much -_-)

[skada (low IQ)]

I think the battles can be quite cinematic, but I have less time to watch things unfold. Killing speeds are quite fast compared to before, and you need to micromanage units quite a lot.

For example, I constantly need to check for units that have beaten an enemy unit, which is happening every other second, otherwise they will just stand there cheering even as battle is still happening all around them. I wouldn't mind if units targeted nearby enemies automatically after their initial target routs following an attack order. There's also more unit and general abilities now, giving less time to sit back and watch (although you don't really need to use them against the AI...).

Main thing though is the kill rates and blobbification. Even if I play battles in slow mo, it's hard to see the individual soldiers fighting it out amidst the sea of people that are all shoulder-to-shoulder distance from each other. Slowing kill speeds, increasing soldier spacing, and adjusting the blobbing (soldiers from different units don't care about each other and try to cram together right now) should be a high priority IMO.

[Hannibal Barca]

Ah I can finally put this film degree to use,
OK, If we look at the most Cinematic Directors ever , Akira Kurosawa, what he did you would call it filming narrative . His camera movements are fliud and he never repeats the same camera angles. Telling the story without character dialog or action. I dont see any of that in Rome2. What I see are blobs of units smushing together and some dck in the corner yelling "the men are wavering" every 30 secs or so breaking the 4th wall pulling me right out of the narrative.

[Shogun]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhjdH3gytpk&feature=c4-overview&list=UUD1eu28G17Uabr9u2id7EYg

[Smyrffio]

I guess it's cinematic in that cinematic mode works as advertised and is awesome. For whatever that is worth.

[Itharus]

Game looks awesome to me. Although units die a little too quickly for my tastes.

[Hannibal Barca]

Originally posted by Shogun:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhjdH3gytpk&feature=c4-overview&list=UUD1eu28G17Uabr9u2id7EYg

Yea put 200 of each unit in the fight and See the massive blob of sht, you cant see that great animation just the top of helms packed tight together.

[Lord]

Originally posted by +Crux Terminatus+:

Originally posted by Shogun:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhjdH3gytpk&feature=c4-overview&list=UUD1eu28G17Uabr9u2id7EYg

Yea put 200 of each unit in the fight and See the massive blob of sht, you cant see that great animation just the top of helms packed tight together.

Agreed :)

It's good to know that they have awesome combat animations, but they're entirely pointless when you can't see anything; I enjoy much more seeing the individual soldiers in Rome Total War fighting it out, simply because you can see them actually engaged, unlike here in R2TW where it's just a bunch of polygons mushed together

[B.H.L17]

yes and no, YES, the cinematic cam is a good addition feature for the game, and NO because they thrown out one of the MOST cinematic feature of old totalwar series, a long real , awesome general speech & event /agent movie .It not only make the game so alive, but also make us more connecting to the game-i mean, i love my ..undefeated Roman general who REALLY REALLY hate Gaul, and he really do boast about it in his speech, so awesome........

Seriously....who the hell in charge for Rome 2 this time.....where is all of the good feature in the past gone ?

[Inoksvere]

Basically, CA thinks that you're going to do this every battle:

1: Organize your initial battle formation (Troop Deployment)

2: Start Battle and immediately issue orders.

3: Select a unit and press Insert

4: Watch battle until over in this view

[Shogun]

Originally posted by +Crux Terminatus+:

Originally posted by Shogun:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhjdH3gytpk&feature=c4-overview&list=UUD1eu28G17Uabr9u2id7EYg

Yea put 200 of each unit in the fight and See the massive blob of sht, you cant see that great animation just the top of helms packed tight together.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhPy6NjHhY4

[Grandmaster]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DPmOdZf-kg&feature=share&list=UUz-nL8X0JTtJ8Z3x2Xgxpww

[Lord]

Originally posted by ♎ Grandmaster:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DPmOdZf-kg&feature=share&list=UUz-nL8X0JTtJ8Z3x2Xgxpww

Originally posted by Shogun:

Originally posted by +Crux Terminatus+:

Yea put 200 of each unit in the fight and See the massive blob of sht, you cant see that great animation just the top of helms packed tight together.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhPy6NjHhY4

Anyone can make a movie and make a game look epic. Movies ommit the bad, and keep what looks good, as i'm sure you realised this after ordering the game, having watched how good and well structured the 'battle of carthage' was on youtube... -__-

Look, R2TW looks great up close and personal, with all the animations, but thats the only cinematic element in the actual fighting; zooming out is incredibly horrible as the battles look like a mess, even in the vids you guys uploaded, when the films took a long-distance shot of the battles it looked like a disorganised clump.

Personally I believe CA (probably the fault of SEGA) forgot that battles took their time, and even when units clashed, the fighting would only last 10-15 seconds before they split and re-engaged once again. It feels like every soldier in R2 either dies or kills in the instant of contact, which is why everyone dies so fast.

Although the battles in previous TWs dont see units separating and re-engaging, atleast the soldiers fought for several seconds if not minutes before they were knocked out.

what do you guys think?

[Hannibal Barca]

Originally posted by CamaroFullHD:

Originally posted by ♎ Grandmaster:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DPmOdZf-kg&feature=share&list=UUz-nL8X0JTtJ8Z3x2Xgxpww

Originally posted by Shogun:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhPy6NjHhY4

Anyone can make a movie and make a game look epic. Movies ommit the bad, and keep what looks good, as i'm sure you realised this after ordering the game, having watched how good and well structured the 'battle of carthage' was on youtube... -__-

Look, R2TW looks great up close and personal, with all the animations, but thats the only cinematic element in the actual fighting; zooming out is incredibly horrible as the battles look like a mess, even in the vids you guys uploaded, when the films took a long-distance shot of the battles it looked like a disorganised clump.

Personally I believe CA (probably the fault of SEGA) forgot that battles took their time, and even when units clashed, the fighting would only last 10-15 seconds before they split and re-engaged once again. It feels like every soldier in R2 either dies or kills in the instant of contact, which is why everyone dies so fast.

Although the battles in previous TWs dont see units separating and re-engaging, atleast the soldiers fought for several seconds if not minutes before they were knocked out.

what do you guys think?

I was in agreement with you untill you faulted Sega , Ca and Sega are the same company. There is a Sega guy at the CA studio, we got to stop seperating the 2 like Sega just obtained CA because theyve been married since 2004, You can blame Sega but dont make CA the victim.

[Go4Pro]

silven mod.

[Dark Angel]

SEGA/CA are falling down the gap between Strategy gaming and First Person Shooters. SEGA's arcade pedegree is driving a graphics emphasis that doesn't sit well in strategy games. Instead of offering exception A/I as a central feature they have gone for cosmetics to give it a 'soft-porn for wargamers' style of candy coating graphics. It's a first person shooter mentality (we've even had unlockable content in the past) shoe-horned into a wargaming enviroment and it doesn't work or at least it works badly. The TW franchise should be centred around superior A/I and battlefield effects (and in my view, superior campaign functions) and generalship skills. Si Meier does the empire building and there are a range of annoying RTS games where you build things to produce units. SEGA/CA have fallen into this mire and can't see a clearly defined niche for their product, they are simply trying to attract a wider audience and failing to satisfy either. I have a sense they would have been more comfortable with a first-person video game experience rather than an army based one. I expect most of the budget went on the opening sequence rather than the A/I enhancements that were so sorely needed. The game just feels so dumbed down in every way but graphics which are based upon the fine book and research by Professor Peter Connolly (RIP) in his work 'Greece and Rome at War' Greenhill books 1998.