No Achievements? What gives?!?

[Mephisticles]

I don't understand why a company would be so moronic as to not include achievement support on Steam. And I don't understand why Steam wouldn't force the issue. It reduces piracy and gives gamers a way to measure their worth against others. It can't take that long or be that expensive, at least not enough to offset the increased sales due to achievement hunters purchaces. I would buy this game if there were achievements, but alas the lack of them means you've lost my intrest. I understand you may not care about the paltry sum from one sale, but I doubt I am the only person who feels this way. Please agree if you feel the same way; maybe it will show this developer it needs to add achievements if its doing a Steam release. Thank you.

[Tiger]

If lack of achievements is the only reason you're not buying this game, then I don't know what to say. Your loss?

[Mephisticles]

If anyone really wants to play it, they can always pirate it. True gamers like playing real games, giving their money to the developers that earn it, and ranking themselves against others. Gamers need to show companies that achievements are not only greatly wanted in the community, but also a good business model. If not buying this game (or any other without achievements) shows them that, THEN I won't buy it.

[Panzerlied]

Everyone has an opinion, your answer to his statement is only yours and yours alone. Don't lump "true gamers" into an achievement hunting sub-group. I honestly don't give a crap about acheivements and I've got well over 130 games in my Steam Library.

[Mephisticles]

Postat inițial de =TaT=Sgt. Panzerlied:

Everyone has an opinion, your answer to his statement is only yours and yours alone. Don't lump "true gamers" into an achievement hunting sub-group. I honestly don't give a crap about acheivements and I've got well over 130 games in my Steam Library.

If you read my reply post sir, I did not. In fact, I did not use that term in my reply. I simply stated that gamers like ranking themselves against others. Through leaderboards, achievements, or just bragging to your friends, all gamers, or rather all humans, enjoy showcasing how awesome they are. Achievements are a handy and intelligently designed way of doing this, but yes you are right that the achievement hunter sub-group, is just that: a sub-group. Nevertheless, you almost make my point, although I in no way tried to insinuate that "true gamers" are achievement hunters, or vice versa, developers and Steam alienate this sub-group and exclude them from purchacing their games if they do not include achievements.

[Panzerlied]

People will play what they want to play. I just find it silly that a game is not played simply because there are a lack of digital bragging tokens. All I can say is, don't pass this game up simply because it doesn't have achievements, you're missing out.

[Mephisticles]

Postat inițial de =TaT=Sgt. Panzerlied:

People will play what they want to play. I just find it silly that a game is not played simply because there are a lack of digital bragging tokens. All I can say is, don't pass this game up simply because it doesn't have achievements, you're missing out.

I agree. And I am not speaking for myself, but many gamers feel even a $9.99 price tag is too much when pirating the game is so much easier, and free. If a player does want achievements, you have to buy a DRM protected game. It is a bad business model for companies to NOT even offer acheivements, whether everyone cares or not. The gamers that DO care, won't even coniser pirating. And the only way developers will LEARN this, is if consumers (i.e. us gamers) don't purchase achievement-lacking games while explaining our reasoning. Achievements are good for sales and good for gamers, if you don't care about earing them, then that's your right. But why should those that care be excuded? And why should these specific gamers be allowed to feel the itch to pirate if the simple solution is just to require achievements of all games? It is good for the industry as a whole. But only by not buying their games can we teach developers this lesson.

[Thjan]

Postat inițial de Mephisticles:

Postat inițial de =TaT=Sgt. Panzerlied:

Everyone has an opinion, your answer to his statement is only yours and yours alone. Don't lump "true gamers" into an achievement hunting sub-group. I honestly don't give a crap about acheivements and I've got well over 130 games in my Steam Library.

If you read my reply post sir, I did not. In fact, I did not use that term in my reply. I simply stated that gamers like ranking themselves against others. Through leaderboards, achievements, or just bragging to your friends, all gamers, or rather all humans, enjoy showcasing how awesome they are. Achievements are a handy and intelligently designed way of doing this, but yes you are right that the achievement hunter sub-group, is just that: a sub-group. Nevertheless, you almost make my point, although I in no way tried to insinuate that "true gamers" are achievement hunters, or vice versa, developers and Steam alienate this sub-group and exclude them from purchacing their games if they do not include achievements.

Sorry, but what you write is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. What makes you think that "all gamers, or rather all humans, enjoy showcasing how awesome they are." ?

[Mephisticles]

A psychology textbook. Under the section entitiled "Self-Esteem".

[Yorkie]

I would like to know how you link the lack of Achievements with Piracy.

I am one of Many, please don't speak for me.

[Mephisticles]

Postat inițial de Yorkie:

I would like to know how you link the lack of Achievements with Piracy.

The "link" is NOT two-way. If a game has achievements, a achievement-hunting gamer MUST purchace a DRM protected game in order to gain them. Even an average gamer not in this sub-group who compares achievements with a few close friends will purchace a DRM protected game to do so. IF a game lacks achievements, AND the gamer is inclined to pirate (and let's face it, many are), THEN the developer and Steam earns nothing when this type of gamer pirates. If you don't fall in this caregory then it might seem rediculous, but for this "sub-group" this is an unfortunate occurace. The achievement-hunting sub-group is quite large, and, regretably, so is the group willing to pirate. Whether it is one lost sale or hundreds of lost sales, everyone in the community looses.

[Segovax]

Postat inițial de Mephisticles:

Postat inițial de =TaT=Sgt. Panzerlied:

Everyone has an opinion, your answer to his statement is only yours and yours alone. Don't lump "true gamers" into an achievement hunting sub-group. I honestly don't give a crap about acheivements and I've got well over 130 games in my Steam Library.

If you read my reply post sir, I did not. In fact, I did not use that term in my reply. I simply stated that gamers like ranking themselves against others. Through leaderboards, achievements, or just bragging to your friends, all gamers, or rather all humans, enjoy showcasing how awesome they are. Achievements are a handy and intelligently designed way of doing this, but yes you are right that the achievement hunter sub-group, is just that: a sub-group. Nevertheless, you almost make my point, although I in no way tried to insinuate that "true gamers" are achievement hunters, or vice versa, developers and Steam alienate this sub-group and exclude them from purchacing their games if they do not include achievements.

You used the actual phrase "true gamers" in your post up there. Your exact sentence was "True gamers like playing real games, giving their money to the developers that earn it and ranking themselves against others."

Postat inițial de Mephisticles:

If anyone really wants to play it, they can always pirate it. True gamers like playing real games, giving their money to the developers that earn it, and ranking themselves against others. Gamers need to show companies that achievements are not only greatly wanted in the community, but also a good business model. If not buying this game (or any other without achievements) shows them that, THEN I won't buy it.

If you really need to showcase your achievements in order to rank yourself against others, that's not self esteem, that's the personal problem of heavy dependence on external validation. Maybe you should read that psychology textbook, or at least check the print date.

I'm all for achievements, I think they're gangs of fun, but if I feel the need to be recognized I'll participate in a competetive league for cash money. Achievement hunting is for personal entertainment since the bragging rights are worth nothing - anybody can save scum or youtube a strat and pretend they're awesome by flashing a steam badge. Accuracy tracking stats are harder to scum but if I'm paying attention to those in a game that puts that much effort into it stat tracking, I'm probably not vetting someone's ability to game by their steam profile.

A true gamer notes when he makes an error and immediately tries to correct it rather than plow ahead and try to keep building on a faulty strat. You should reconsider your entire rant and subsequent replies.

[Mephisticles]

Postat inițial de HerrComrade:

Postat inițial de Mephisticles:

If you read my reply post sir, I did not. In fact, I did not use that term in my reply. I simply stated that gamers like ranking themselves against others. Through leaderboards, achievements, or just bragging to your friends, all gamers, or rather all humans, enjoy showcasing how awesome they are. Achievements are a handy and intelligently designed way of doing this, but yes you are right that the achievement hunter sub-group, is just that: a sub-group. Nevertheless, you almost make my point, although I in no way tried to insinuate that "true gamers" are achievement hunters, or vice versa, developers and Steam alienate this sub-group and exclude them from purchacing their games if they do not include achievements.

You used the actual phrase "true gamers" in your post up there. Your exact sentence was "True gamers like playing real games, giving their money to the developers that earn it and ranking themselves against others."

Postat inițial de Mephisticles:

If anyone really wants to play it, they can always pirate it. True gamers like playing real games, giving their money to the developers that earn it, and ranking themselves against others. Gamers need to show companies that achievements are not only greatly wanted in the community, but also a good business model. If not buying this game (or any other without achievements) shows them that, THEN I won't buy it.

If you really need to showcase your achievements in order to rank yourself against others, that's not self esteem, that's the personal problem of heavy dependence on external validation. Maybe you should read that psychology textbook, or at least check the print date.

I'm all for achievements, I think they're gangs of fun, but if I feel the need to be recognized I'll participate in a competetive league for cash money. Achievement hunting is for personal entertainment since the bragging rights are worth nothing - anybody can save scum or youtube a strat and pretend they're awesome by flashing a steam badge. Accuracy tracking stats are harder to scum but if I'm paying attention to those in a game that puts that much effort into it stat tracking, I'm probably not vetting someone's ability to game by their steam profile.

A true gamer notes when he makes an error and immediately tries to correct it rather than plow ahead and try to keep building on a faulty strat. You should reconsider your entire rant and subsequent replies.

Considering I'm a psychology grad student, your personal attack is left somewhat wanting. The self-esteem comment was a direct cross to Thjan's inane comment about human nature; it was not part of the main discussion or meant to be read in any other context. Gamers should also recognize the obvious (see I can be sarcastic too!). Also, in direct contradiction to your first premise, the phrase in question was not true gamers, but achievement hunters. Do not be distracted by the shiny quotation marks.
Now as for your valid arguments, the day of being able to claim you defeated ultima weapon without showing proof is over. The proof either exists with that shiny achievement, or it doesn't. External validation is a flawed assumption. I can prove I defeated the superboss in FF13. I don't care if someone in China sees it, it is for MY personal appreciation. Of saying I can show this to my children someday, or yes, if the gamer is that type of person, bragging rights. Just because you see bragging rights as worthless, don't expect that to be universal. Earning an achievement nowadays is an immortal deed.
But back to point, this thread was not ever meant to debate the finer points of achievement's personal worth, but the business side of offering achievements to the arguably hardcore achievement hunting sub-group.

[Sir Provost]

A real gamer is one who will play a game for the game itself, bottomline. Regardless, if you were to actually play the game I think you would find that achievements would be counter-productive to the game itself, because it is so individually player driven.

As far as piracy is concerned, I've never once bought a game because it had achievements... It's not really something most people would consider when buying a game, that would be excessively shallow. I buy games to support the companies that make them, simply put.

You're in the wrong, and I agree with HerrComrade, you should really reconsider your rant. Your points are not based on logic, and your responses are full of fallacies.

[la_nague]

maybe they dont care about people like you and instead focus on real gameplay.

"gives gamers a way to measure their worth against others"


LOL

[ShadoWwolF]

i find it rather sad you seem to only be able to enjoy a games achievements and not the game itself. the rest of us however enjoy CK2 for the game and all its glory and faults and we find our own achievements in the game