Thanks for the feedback!
Most "problematic" rooms can be solved if you save your active but that O shaped room is, indeed, the bane of Gurzil's existence and theres little to do about it. Even giving you a free turret wont avoid taking damege on that one if you dont have mana to spare.

About timed things, I gotta insist, I'm against them 100%...they are the easiest solutions to implement but they create too much situations where you just wait. Yes, I know there are situations where you gotta wait with Gurzil, already, but I dont want to implement mechanics that make you want to wait or reward you for waiting.

For now I'd say, just skip that O shaped room or just restart if you see it (it only appears on the basemens as far as I'm aware so, at least, it wont ♥♥♥♥ up an entire run)....but, on the long run, I have some "future possible" mechanics, that I'm considering, that can help this case:

- A 2nd firemode for the wall turrets that features ghost tears at the cost of firerate (this could help you snipe unreachable enemies but would be annoying to use otherwise). This would solve the O'shaped room dilema.
- When you use the active, ground turrets still cost 1 but if you use a rock to spawn them normally they cost .5 (Im leaning towards this one).
- (my least favorite/last resort one) Something similar to a thing you mentioned, having the ability to "move static turrets" by removing/replacing. But If I ever do this it wont be for free, maybe for .5? (this would still not solve the O shaped room problem).

Again, to clarify, my main issue with free movable turrets that you get overtime is that, the best way to play with that mechanic would be to just wait 15s and use only 1 turret for a room were you'd normally need 2 or more.

Btw, I just implemented option 2 (half mana on rock turrets, spawned on rocks, when the item is active). If you get the chance to try it, lemme know what do ya think D: (I'm having 2nd thoughts)

Originally posted by JSG:

Btw, I just implemented option 2 (half mana on rock turrets, spawned on rocks, when the item is active). If you get the chance to try it, lemme know what do ya think D: (I'm having 2nd thoughts)

The half price thing is cool and I like it, but doesn't affect too much, IMO. I think most people use the item for it's ability to be placed anywhere (i.e., able to hit enemies). And in fact the half price thing Might actually end up giving people too much mana over time, which I think is one of your concerns.

Also, maybe you should start some "Official" threads where people can report glitches and give opinions for changes?

I think the biggest problem is with turret manueverability and being able to hit enemies. Like, some rooms have few or no rocks, or are in a position where it can't hit the enemies. I thought wall turrets were an obvious solution, but many rooms are filled with rocks that block the shots or even cover the walls so you Can't even put up any wall turrets. So many of the rooms are designed for Normal tears coming from the character's face which can move and fire in any direction. The rooms that work are challenging and fun, but many rooms are almost literally like "you can only pass if you're a normal character". Here's what I think:

-Poops and pots should spawn more flies and spiders like 5 max per turret. 2 is not enough to even kill certain regenerating enemies. The fact that they don't keep spawning after room clear should still keep players from hording flies.
-The rock turrets and wall turrets should maybe have Spectral tears. This will keep rock turrets from clippings, and allow wall turrets to shoot enemies stuck or hiding behind rocks on rooms.
-An ability to destroy poop and TNT without costing mana. Many rooms block your path with poop and TNT, and sometimes turrets can't reach them, so you have to waste many turning poop or explosives into turrets, JUST to move forward.

-A movable turret. What if you use the space item, and click yourself, you become a walking turret. Or get a turret that you can pick up and move.
*It's based on the items charge, so it can't be spammed to make Gurzil just a normal characters shooting tears.
*The mana cost to do this can be high, so that it becomes something only worth using on rooms where it's necessary
*The time it takes to move the turret can be longer, or the turret's strength and tear delay can be downscaled from normal turrets to make it seem balanced to you.

SIMPLER IDEA
all that stuff might be hard to do, so another idea for a Moveable turret, is just an ability to to get a slight mana refund when you tear down the moveable turret.

Thanks for the feedback but I think im done with buffs for a while, at least. The new active item changes should cover most of the "inconvenient rock placing rooms" since, if you enter the room with 2 mana it means you can use 4 4-way shooting turrets. However, Im gonna adress each item you mentioned.

-Poops and pots should spawn more flies and spiders like 5 max per turret. 2 is not enough to even kill certain regenerating enemies. The fact that they don't keep spawning after room clear should still keep players from hording flies.

Moving from 2 to 5 is overkill, 3 I could think about it....but 5 is out of the question. Not to mention, the poop turret is one of the most powerful turrets already (specially early game)

-The rock turrets and wall turrets should maybe have Spectral tears. This will keep rock turrets from clippings, and allow wall turrets to shoot enemies stuck or hiding behind rocks on rooms.

I tho about that but then realized that there wouldnt be any reason to use any other turret than wall turrets.

-An ability to destroy poop and TNT without costing mana. Many rooms block your path with poop and TNT, and sometimes turrets can't reach them, so you have to waste many turning poop or explosives into turrets, JUST to move forward.

TNT rooms are mostly unclear, which means that you'll get 1.25 mana back when you clear them....giving a no-mana alternative will give you a free 1.25 mana, I cant afford that with all the existent buffs.
About Poop, most of the rooms that fit your description are button based rooms. I'm planning on adding a "push the button" turret in the next update, that should help.

-A movable turret. What if you use the space item, and click yourself, you become a walking turret. Or get a turret that you can pick up and move.

This was a "last resort" decision for me....I was like, "If I cant manage another way to make all the rooms clearable, I'll do that". I dont like it just because of the things you already mentioned, it turns Gurzil into a normal character. Also, that would mean sacrificing the current active item which I like a lot.

"I tho about that but then realized that there wouldnt be any reason to use any other turret than wall turrets."

Unless you have a lot of range ups wall turrets won't reach all the way across the room, and in L or 2x2 rooms they won't even cover the whole of the room with one on opposing walls.

Also they fire only 1 tear to the rock turret's 4, which makes the rock turret better for dealing with large numbers of enemies or those popcorn guys that chase you and explode.

In a normal sized room a rock turret placed in the middle can reach pretty much the whole room in both height and width.

"This was a "last resort" decision for me....I was like, "If I cant manage another way to make all the rooms clearable, I'll do that". I dont like it just because of the things you already mentioned, it turns Gurzil into a normal character. Also, that would mean sacrificing the current active item which I like a lot."

A solution to this might be to make the self-turret grant something like directional firing, but not exactly.

Alphabirth: Mom's Closet has an item that makes you fire constantly in the direction you're walking, which would make it so that you can fire tears in a chosen direction, but you're not firing exactly like a normal character.

It's definitely worse than normal firing because in order to hit an enemy you have to be moving toward the enemy.

"A solution to this might be to make the self-turret grant something like directional firing, but not exactly.Alphabirth:..."

Ye, saw that item, I actually liked it a lot...this is more of an issue of sacrificing the current Active in favour of that one. I think that one would be more "dull" and wont fit Gurzil much. That being said, it's not completely out of question.

"Unless you have a lot of range ups wall turrets won't reach all the way across the room, and in L or 2x2 rooms they won't even cover the whole of the room with one on opposing walls."

indeed, L and 2x2 rooms can be in an "out of range" situation from the wall turrets perspective but this is more of a psicological thing. Wall turrets would "feel" like they can do everything, so people would just spawn wall turrets and wait (this is my biggest fear, it already happens now I think adding spectral would make it even worse).
Right now, if you have to make a choice between a wall turret and a rock turret, you'll always choose the wall one because it's more versatile....adding espectral to the wall turrets will make more situations in which the rock turret is not used. In fact, Rock turrets would only be used in niche cases, I dont really like that.


Thanks a lot for your continued feedback btw!

Here's an idea.

Free Spectral tears. (Edit, already suggested in this thread, but with a different spelling)

That change is how the Lost got turned into not complete unfun to play as, and the weakness against gridobjects is the same between a one-hit character and a character whose best attacks are from the walls. (or are poop, which gives you psuedo guppy like powers.)

In terms of coding, this mod is amazing. (uses new keys, uses mouse and right click)

I'd also figure out a way to make familiars not be completely trash. Maybe like they follow a wall turrent if you make one, and fire along with it? This is assuming you just don't have lilith'like functionality with familiars.

I'd also have the non-wall/ non-blue bug spawning have a bit more auto tracking if possible,

Thanks for the feedback, sawbladex!
About familiars following the wall turrets, again, same reason why I wont add spectrals, I dont want to give more power to wall turrets than what they already have.
You can kinda still use familiars, on the traditional way....you have to alternate between mouse/keys tho, which is annoying.

"I'd also have the non-wall/ non-blue bug spawning have a bit more auto tracking if possible,"

I tried to do that but, as the api is right now, it's not possible....unless i code the bugs from 0.

Oh, I was just mentioning that as a fix for if you didn't want to use familiars like other blindfolded character. Yeah, I had forgetten that you could enable mousecrosshairs for shooting, which makes familiars at least usable, if a little messy.

I'll have to get good enough to consistenly past the basement, (which tends to have fairly simple rooms, or at least doesn't feel as bad if I have to restart.)

Can confirm, you can use mouse control to fire familiar tears while also using it to place stuff if you still have turrents of that type left.

Still is kinda wonky, but that's because the set-up makes my head hurt, and there's no way that having two different fire bases wouldn't do that.

(Heck the base game does this to me with epic fetus, and moving about, so I will say it's a limit of my brain meats, and one can't fault a modded character for being the same as a base tear replacement)

Never tried that, it's really cool...I mean, it is wonky but it's "better than nothing".
I wish there was a way to enable that in the mod api.

Or at least a way to enable it that didn't involve manually editting a config file that holds a whole bunch of settings that are normally set within the application itself.