Total War: WARHAMMER

Total War: WARHAMMER

The Tomb Kings - Custom battle pack [discontinued]
Haradrim  [developer] Mar 5, 2017 @ 10:07am
Balancing
post balancing stuff here
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Showing 1-15 of 28 comments
Haradrim  [developer] Mar 6, 2017 @ 3:21am 
Try to add an example of where the units was overpowered.
For example: modded unit defeated this unit(s) while it should have lost.
Guuzey Mar 7, 2017 @ 6:22am 
Hi Haradrim,
I'm writing you because I experienced, that the Bone Giants are a little bit overpowered, I mean I have nearly defeated an bretonnian army of 9 units just with a bone giant melee and a ranged one.

Otherwise I want to say good job this Mod is definitely well done and in my opinion, (with Campaign and other Unit Icons) it Could be a DLC for the full Game.

yours Yssesal :steamhappy:
Last edited by Guuzey; Mar 7, 2017 @ 6:22am
Vikingnewt Mar 7, 2017 @ 7:10am 
Yssesal - just tested, standard bretonnian character snipe works wonders on them
New Sage Mar 7, 2017 @ 4:20pm 
Only really played the VC atm, so I am not familiar with archer factions. Also 'familiar' with table top version, but no experience...so...

Tomb Archers - Probably a tad OP. Need to try against other factions first. But the accuracy makes them a powerful meat grinder. Are you using any mods that effect balance?

Little scarabs - where pretty solid, but I think the game is having trouble with something there. Sent them against calvary, and they stalled them perfectly. 3 scarab units took no damage. 1 unit completely wiped out in a very small window.

Slaves - Was expecting humans :) Used em' and they where wiped out in seconds. At this point I wouldn't use em.

Giant Archer - Something wierd with their 'shot'. I would prefer little archers and skull pults atm. Problem is probably that it is hard to 'confirm' if your arrow actually hits. Turned out to be powerful in melee though. Distinguishing melee vs archer might not hurt.
Last edited by New Sage; Mar 7, 2017 @ 4:21pm
Il Presidente Mar 8, 2017 @ 1:59am 
Same problems with Giant archers as Tald,i suggest to turn him more into a Big Balista shot if possible,slower but way more powerful,but not as strong in melee

The bone giant himself can wipe most units,i think that should be nerfed a bit

Archers should have a big malus to compensate their aim and range

Overall,i compared stats and every unit is a slightly better version of standard skeletons but with a little cost,i think it would be better to differ the various units,or diversify them somehow from basic units

STILL,GJ! the units look awesome, 10/10

Bonus: slaves work fine imho,they are like zombies but a bit less ♥♥♥♥♥♥
Last edited by Il Presidente; Mar 8, 2017 @ 2:00am
DogloBro Mar 8, 2017 @ 4:57am 
dosont work
Cataph Mar 8, 2017 @ 5:07am 
Ok, mate, don't say I didn't warn you beforehand! Make room for the nerfbat, guys.

So, as I said, I can't commend you enough for the variants and ingenuity of some solutions (like the emp knight armet turned into a collar of sorts). However, there are some balance (or tabletop/lore-friendliness) issues I'd like to address.

A few pointers from their tabletop armybook:
- Tomb King units cannot march. Ever. That means they are statistically 50% slower than other units.
- They have higher leadership than VC units (usually +2 on a /10 scale).
- usually lower armour outside of constructs.
- can wield different lores of magic. In theory, even battle prayers (not sigmarite, obviously).
- their lords have nifty buffs for the otherwise rather crappy troops.

What this should imply in TW:
1. even if it is possible to make cant_run units, it could be annoying at best in a TW. Besides, the rule is partially true for VC as well and it was ignored. So maybe just make them a wee bit slower? (e.g. 28 rather than 31 on skellies)
2. higher leadership, yes, but not so much. For example, base skellies (Ld5) should realistically equal the crypt ghouls (45ish).
3. relatedly, tomb guard should realistically drop 5 leadership but that could be minor. However, there's no reason to have so many fewer hitpoints compared to GG. Instead, armour should be lower (light armour vs heavy, 50ish tops vs 90).
4. lore of light on an undead army is cool af when it is lore-friendly. However, the hierotitan is a bit on the OP side, being vastly too cheap for his worth. This should be addressed automatically however as soon as you make him an actual character type (when all abilities and spells become for-purchase rather than given).
5. There's no actual reason for the skellies to be so much stronger than VC's since they have the exact same profile (barring Leadership), or to be stronger than emp swordsmen. I know Tomb Kings lords are not yet out there but it's on them to raise their melee capabilities. A "My will be done" constant passive should easily raise melee attack and def by +15 or even more around 45m.

other:
- Don't forget about Flammable! Most mummiphied units are such and I don't have draw a picture to describe what happens if you start weaving a lit torch in an egyptian museum.
- skelly archers shouldn't be wielding longbows but I take it it is to compensate for Asaph arrows so that's alright.
- ushabti with both a laughable vs Inf and vs Large bonus? is it only for, you know, promotional purpose?
- ok, flavour, but why 110 speed on skelly horsemen? Did they give a lot of milk to their steeds for strong bones? Considering point 1, it doesn't make much sense for them to be the fastest cav ever. Similarly, the bone giant is still rather too cheap considering it's a giant in heavy armour with a bonus vs Inf (because ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥?). Also, might as well rename it Necrolith Colossus since it's the same thing without the inevitable embarassment of not having an actual giant's skeleton.
- pity about the obvious impossibility of Necropolis Knights, scorpions and stuff like that. Maybe (and that's me proposing it, the grumpy defender of tabletopness) you could give them barded horseskellies in lieu of that for some shock cav that is not a monster. They used metal bardings when they were alive anyway.
- I don't see a problem with skelly bowmen being very large troops, it was a viable (although cheesy) thing on the tabletop to field HUGE blocks of archers anyway. However, infantry skelly types are rather too cost-efficient, considering they chew through emp swordsmen or how archers nuke monsters. Maybe it will be necessary to downsize them, or consistently up-pricing them.

Pretty much this. Please don't be annoyed, I know how it can be as I've always been on the other side of this kind of feedback. I wouldn't even be posting this if I didn't have the highest regard for this mod.
Last edited by Cataph; Mar 8, 2017 @ 5:07am
Haradrim  [developer] Mar 8, 2017 @ 9:50am 
@Cataph thanks mate will work on it. And actually I consider this to be awesome stuff rather than an annoyance. As you might have seen I'm putting a team together so that we can put as much detail as possible in every unit . This includes items, weapons and armour which will be a big part of the balancing as I now have wildly guessed item stats or based it on other weapons (similar in size I guess). I've never played the table top as you might have noticed so I get everything from the lore. Which may explain why I make everything OP as Warhammer Lore can be a little bit exaggerated :P
BobRobtheThird Mar 11, 2017 @ 6:30pm 
Great mod, love the new faction but I have noticed one flaw with the new units. They are on average more powerful then their counterparts in other factions. Ive tested most factions against an average army of Tomb Kings and almost everytime the Tomb Kings will completely stomp the other army. The only times Ive won against them is if I make an extremly overpowered army Such as a full stack Empire army consisting of nothing but greatswords and Demigryphs and even then I won with barely a quarter of my army left. I know Im splitting hairs but its just a balance issue Ive noticed.
BobRobtheThird Mar 11, 2017 @ 8:19pm 
To contiune the with my above statement I will try to give some examples of the unbalance.

1) 3 units of Chaos Chosen and 1 Giant vs 3 units of tomb guards and one Bone Giant= Tombs win completely total a** stomping.

2) On average one maxed out Bone Giant will take on 3 to 4 units of average to slightly above average melee units such as swordsmen or polearms and barely lose a fourth of their overall health.

3) The Tomb general is wayyyyyyy too OP for his price. Raise the base price of him by about 1200 and cut some of his health becuase the guy is an absolute bullet spounge.

4) Back to the bone Giant, I dunno what character you chose for that monster but his attack animation is insane. The guy leaps 50 feet everytime he attacks and Ive seen 3 full units knocked on thierr a** becuase of it which is funny at first and is helpful when hes on your side but seeing your entire front line get rambo'ed by one of these a**holes becuase his animations mixed with his size and stats can really make you want to rage quit.

5) Please add more lesser generals becuase only having one general that is that cheap and OP can really screw the other side over when it comes to matches with small budgets.
Last edited by BobRobtheThird; Mar 11, 2017 @ 8:20pm
BobRobtheThird Mar 11, 2017 @ 8:23pm 
I'll try to help point out anything else if I see it, I know I missed a couple things but I need to try out this faction more before I post anything else.
Haradrim  [developer] Mar 12, 2017 @ 12:18am 
@BobrobtheThird Thanks for the feedback ! :) Don't worry about the general this is just a temporary thing, but I shouldn't have given him all the spells and make him so op :P . More general and heroes will follow, but they are a lot more work than normal units. Bone giant's and the most of the infantry are going to get nerved in today's update.
BobRobtheThird Mar 12, 2017 @ 7:43pm 
Anytime man, I see a good mod here and want it to get better.
Minotron Mar 15, 2017 @ 9:57am 
The warsphinx is a little bit slow. I mean that this should be faster. It is a cat like essence with a good physique. It should not just go for a walk.
Karl Hunt Mar 19, 2017 @ 7:47pm 
Warsphynx gets hung up on everything, even your own units. It should be able to shove past almost anything due to its size alone.
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