I'm not sure if you're interested in this kind of minor balance-- but I think it might be good to lower her starting luck. I'm finding pretty much any- not terrible- tear effect puts her in a really good place, while effects like Jacobs Ladder and Ghost Pepper fire off constantly, completely clearing rooms regardless of damage.

Jacob's Ladder isn't affected by Luck and I gave Ghost Pepper a default 5% chance since I have to hardcode that synergy.

Hey,

First of all awesome mod!

Here my feedback:

I have been enjoying Mei significantly less since the tears are not spectral anymore, for certain smaller space room layouts or just near walls it is really hard to hit enemies.
As soon as I picked up spectral tears the character felt way better to play.

There seem to be quite some issues with having the tears not be piercing as well, one of them being that tears have to be created in some way. The current way feels really awkward though, it makes them curve forward while shooting.
This messes up the aiming pattern and I believe if you hit an enemy with a tear that was just created, it will still continue to orbit you, making it possible to hit enemies twice with each shot if you are close enough.

Personally, I liked the spectral + piercing tears approach way more and would have balanced the character in other ways.
Something I noticed is that a lot of bad/very situational items are surprisingly good with Mei, some of which being soy milk, tiny planet and magnetic tears (attracts a LOT and almost only at max range).
I really like that, since it breaks up the usual item meta.
However if Mei synergizes well with all good items, and all situational/bad items then every run is bound to become pretty powerful.

So my suggestion to balance her would be going back to spectral & piercing tears and finding ways to make some maybe usually good items synergize less well or in a very situationally good way (like soy milk on Isaac).

I heavily reccomend a 0-charge spacebar item that toggles her tears to be orbitals without shooting. It'd solve the problem of super-small rooms being hard to complete, and would balance against the spectral-peircing nerf (which was somewhat needed, I guess?)
Call it the Ring, or something ;)

PLEASE bring back the Spectral/Piercing tears, Mei was the only character I actually enjoyed playing as in Afterbirth. Maybe make a separate mod for a spectral/piercing version? She feels so awkward to try and play now.

Unfortunately because of the limitations of the API I don't have the luxury to have Spectral+Penetration without the tear's being Ludovico tears which will once again cause her tears to explode TNT barrels and not adhere to standard tear scale rules.

I understand the discontent at the difficulty to hit with the lack of spectral tears and will try to figure something out. As it stands, with piercing and spectral by default, she will simply be offensive more powerful than everyone but Azazel. Hardcoding nerfs into natural synergies sounds like a bad idea to me which is why I went for the damage nerf, but then people found her too weak in the early game. However, with spectral and penetration coupled with grudges, maybe that damage nerf can be put back in place.

I think given enough time people would get used to not constantly firing her shots so that they rotate around safely while being spectral, but I'll still try to balance it to be a little more fun.

Yeah I gotta second the request for spectral tears again at the least (I think spectral AND piercing is what made her ridiculously strong, but one alone may not be to bad). As of right now because of the way her tears arc and circle around fighting in small rooms or rooms with a ton of rocks is just annoying and frustrating as the tears collide with everything BUT the enemies.

EDIT: And just saw your reply after I hit post. Hmm...start her with an item that adds spectral tears like the Ouija Board?

While I don't agree she was nearly unplayable, I've added Spectral again.

Oh no she absolutely was playable even after the nerf and I enjoy the concept of those grudges as its something unique and interesting, it just it felt incredibly awkward and annoying trying to angle the shots to hit in tighter and cramped rooms. I'm still playing her right now and with a fast fire rate and decent damage shes now killing it again so she isn't unplayable, but I think with spectral tears alone its gonna reduce the amount of people annoyed by the first few floors.

Honestly I hope none of us are being a hassle to you, I love what you've done here. Everyones already made the argument that AB+ feels less unique and innovative than Antibirth and I think mods like this help even things out.

I greatly appreciate the feedback for sure, I want her to be enjoyable so I'm taking all the feedback seriously. I do agree she was less fun to play with spectral tears, but I find she is exceptionally easy with them. I'm rebalancing the grudge mechanic to be less powerful to begin with, but increase as grudge grows so that I can further reduce her natural damage multiplier without completely killing her ability to kill bosses. This should allow me to balance out the benefits gained from simply having a high tear rate and decent damage crushing any and everything that stands in her way.

Ha, now here's something I feel is a fair challenge for Mei runs. The spectral tears do alleviate (at least for me) the annoyance of cramped rooms, but the lack of piercing means knockback is still a factor and man if you aren't careful Mei often knocks enemies TOWARDS her rather than away. I feel like that makes her much more balanced, sort of like Judas: her damage and ability to hit is pretty good compared to most characters but if you play sloppy you're gonna die often and quickly.

For me I think Mei now works as a character. Stat balancing will always be an argument (look how many people finally like Maggy now that she can start with a Speed Up pill) but that's obviously gonna require way more feedback and time to make perfect.

hey loli im new in the modding of binding of isaas cheme, is it posible to put the checklist of bosses with steam worshp character and add items? dosent have to be anything bit of course, jusr cutius

bring the piercing balls back. they're the reason for me even using this mod. ever.

Mei will probably not be starting with penetration again.

Originally posted by Loli:

Mei will probably not be starting with penetration again.

*insert lennyface here. but is it too much to upload another version with the older tears?