Total War: PHARAOH DYNASTIES

Total War: PHARAOH DYNASTIES

Israel
i-dot Jul 27, 2024 @ 6:51am
where Joshua?
Renames the faction Ashkelon to Israel
:steamfacepalm:
according Torah and Bible it should be Joshua siegeing Jericho
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwRDJmlCNLQ
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Showing 1-14 of 14 comments
Kendji  [developer] Jul 27, 2024 @ 8:12am 
Not here :), however, if I modded it in he would be as another general. You can recruit a General and rename him Joshua ;)
Kendji  [developer] Jul 27, 2024 @ 8:28am 
Here, I just recruited him in my own play through :) You can too. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3297845833
i-dot Jul 27, 2024 @ 8:44am 
Originally posted by Kendji:
Here, I just recruited him in my own play through :) You can too. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3297845833
now he should start as Habiru near Jericho having 12 raiders, 12 skirmishers, 12 slingers, 12 militia and Ark of the Covenant
i-dot Jul 27, 2024 @ 9:15am 
may U give him 12 units on Camels that already exist in the Dynasty?
Kendji  [developer] Jul 27, 2024 @ 10:16am 
I don't know how to give or assign units yet, I've know how to mod tw for less than a day, still much to learn :). If I can figure it out why not, but I cannot make promises I don't know how to keep.
Dekarchos Jul 27, 2024 @ 11:09pm 
Originally posted by Kendji:
I don't know how to give or assign units yet, I've know how to mod tw for less than a day, still much to learn :). If I can figure it out why not, but I cannot make promises I don't know how to keep.
Hey man thanks for doing this I appreciate it. I was wondering is there any way you could move it to become the Urusalim faction next to Ashkelon. I believe it was the developers intent that they were the Hebrews. They even start out at war with Ashkelon which I think is also an implication. Their brief mention in Egyptian records implies their were distinct from other peoples in Canaan but not major (no need to be playable I would just be happy having them a bit more properly there). I would prefer it was Joshua too but hey I am not developer. Hopefully the devs make a dlc for them eventually along with making Elam a major faction and some playable Minoans as a minor.
i-dot Jul 28, 2024 @ 7:42am 
Originally posted by Dekarchos:
is there any way you could move it to become the Urusalim faction next to Ashkelon
Urusalim was conquered by David 400 years later after Joshua
the game period is about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_Bible_judges
Last edited by i-dot; Jul 28, 2024 @ 7:43am
Kendji  [developer] Jul 28, 2024 @ 5:17pm 
Originally posted by Dekarchos:
Originally posted by Kendji:
I don't know how to give or assign units yet, I've know how to mod tw for less than a day, still much to learn :). If I can figure it out why not, but I cannot make promises I don't know how to keep.
Hey man thanks for doing this I appreciate it. I was wondering is there any way you could move it to become the Urusalim faction next to Ashkelon. I believe it was the developers intent that they were the Hebrews. They even start out at war with Ashkelon which I think is also an implication. Their brief mention in Egyptian records implies their were distinct from other peoples in Canaan but not major (no need to be playable I would just be happy having them a bit more properly there). I would prefer it was Joshua too but hey I am not developer. Hopefully the devs make a dlc for them eventually along with making Elam a major faction and some playable Minoans as a minor.
Honestly I would love to, there's an significant update in the works, but not including territorial changes. I'm still getting my head around modding tw, learned a bunch new skills which has been put to work in the update. Sorry to disapoint, I don't want to promise things I 'm not sure I can deliver :)


Originally posted by i-dot:
Originally posted by Dekarchos:
is there any way you could move it to become the Urusalim faction next to Ashkelon
Urusalim was conquered by David 400 years later after Joshua
the game period is about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_Bible_judges
Yes, this mod is both ahistorical and abiblical. If it takes a biblical approach the historical fans get pisst, if it takes a historical the biblical fans get pisst.
The premise is what is mentioned on the front page, the destruction of both 'Israel' and Ashkelon getting destroyed at the same time. There's scholarly speculation their connected somehow.

I've then taken that, made them the city and faction of the same destruction event, though in-game this hasn't happened yet. Merneptah is still around etc.
Then I've added both Moses and Dawid. It's a moral dilemma. As Moses, do you kill Dawid, change history etc. or do you try to peace out Dawid, later on integrating him into you dynasty etc.
Secondly it is the two most requested leaders I've seen by players so I thought I'd try give them both, even if it's not historical.
Dekarchos Jul 28, 2024 @ 6:55pm 
Originally posted by Kendji:
Originally posted by Dekarchos:
Hey man thanks for doing this I appreciate it. I was wondering is there any way you could move it to become the Urusalim faction next to Ashkelon. I believe it was the developers intent that they were the Hebrews. They even start out at war with Ashkelon which I think is also an implication. Their brief mention in Egyptian records implies their were distinct from other peoples in Canaan but not major (no need to be playable I would just be happy having them a bit more properly there). I would prefer it was Joshua too but hey I am not developer. Hopefully the devs make a dlc for them eventually along with making Elam a major faction and some playable Minoans as a minor.
Honestly I would love to, there's an significant update in the works, but not including territorial changes. I'm still getting my head around modding tw, learned a bunch new skills which has been put to work in the update. Sorry to disapoint, I don't want to promise things I 'm not sure I can deliver :)


Originally posted by i-dot:
Urusalim was conquered by David 400 years later after Joshua
the game period is about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_Bible_judges
Yes, this mod is both ahistorical and abiblical. If it takes a biblical approach the historical fans get pisst, if it takes a historical the biblical fans get pisst.
The premise is what is mentioned on the front page, the destruction of both 'Israel' and Ashkelon getting destroyed at the same time. There's scholarly speculation their connected somehow.

I've then taken that, made them the city and faction of the same destruction event, though in-game this hasn't happened yet. Merneptah is still around etc.
Then I've added both Moses and Dawid. It's a moral dilemma. As Moses, do you kill Dawid, change history etc. or do you try to peace out Dawid, later on integrating him into you dynasty etc.
Secondly it is the two most requested leaders I've seen by players so I thought I'd try give them both, even if it's not historical.
You didn't disappoint it is no worries. I was just happy to see thought and effort into it for people. Dynasty update was great it is just missing the Hebrews and Minoans really. Everybody else is there it is just sad a major power like Elam is a minor. I am sure you got this and will do a good job. Keep up the good work and thank you again.
Last edited by Dekarchos; Jul 28, 2024 @ 6:55pm
i-dot Jul 29, 2024 @ 8:21am 
Originally posted by Mr. Clean:
For the dilettantes who try arguing over the Late Bronze Age provenance of the earliest Biblical passages:

"The traces of a common Levantine poetic literature, as especially evidenced by comparisons between ABH (Archaic Biblical Hebrew) and Ugaritic poetry, are also likely to be a legacy of the transnational nature of the scribal profession in the Late Bronze Age that continued into the early Iron Age."

Commonly Proposed Features of Archaic Biblical Hebrew
"The earliest stage of the Hebrew language in the Bible is preserved by a few biblical poems. The usual examples of Archaic Biblical Hebrew (ABH) are Genesis 49, Exodus 15, Numbers 23–24, Deuteronomy 32, Judges 5, 2 Samuel 22 (which parallels Psalm 18), Psalm 68, and Habakkuk 3."
[...]
"On a relative basis, these texts do have linguistic features that precede Standard Biblical Hebrew (SBH)—that is, the Hebrew reflected in most of the Hebrew Bible from the Iron IIB–IIC periods (840 –500 b.c.e.)."
-Schniedewind; A Social History of Hebrew, p.70-71 (2013)

Canaanite Duals and the Community of Early Israel
"The dual forms in the last stanza of the Song of Deborah (Judges 5) have literary and historical implications that have yet to be explored.17"
[...]
"Linguistically and stylistically, the use of these duals is striking. As far as we know, in Hebrew and other Iron Age Northwest Semitic languages the dual was not a productive form. It is mostly limited to natural or temporal pairs, plus a few other fixed expressions. This contrasts with earlier Northwest Semitic (i.e., Ugaritic), where the dual is a productive form for any noun.22 Because the Canaanite woman uses the dual as a productive form for רַחםַ (“young woman”) and רִקְמָה (“embroidery”), this scene represents a Canaanite dialect in which the dual was productive. This points to a very early period. The text either knows or remembers a period when Canaanite languages had a productive dual. This is a small, casual detail that reveals a glimpse of the linguistic culture at the time of the text’s composition."
[...]
"The technique of style switching presumes that the linguistic feature corresponds to an actual or remembered feature, in this case the productive use of the dual in proto-Hebrew or proto-Canaanite."
[...]
"The archaic nature of the Song of Deborah is granted by most scholars."
-Hendel; How Old Is the Hebrew Bible?, p.101-104 (2018)

Enjoy denying the obvious.
i-dot Jul 29, 2024 @ 9:20am 
Originally posted by Magnus Bonapartus:
The existence of the Kingdom of Israel in the Bronze Age is supported by several types of evidence, including historical texts, archaeological inscriptions, and archaeological discoveries. Here are some key elements that contribute to this evidence:

1. Historical Texts and Inscriptions:

Merneptah Stele: This Egyptian inscription, dating to around 1207 BCE, mentions Israel. It is one of the earliest known references to the name "Israel" outside of the Bible, referring to a group of people in the region of Canaan.
Egyptian Texts: Various texts and inscriptions from ancient Egypt mention political entities and groups of people in Canaan, including the Hebrews or "Apiru."

2. Archaeological Discoveries:

Archaeological Sites in Canaan: Sites such as Hazor, Megiddo, and Jericho show signs of destruction and rebuilding that coincide with the biblical periods associated with the Israelite conquest and early kingdoms.
Pottery and Other Artifacts: Styles of pottery and other artifacts found in excavations suggest cultural continuity and distinct development that can be associated with the emergence of Israel as a distinct entity in the region.

3. Indirect Evidence:

Amarna Letters: A series of tablets found at Amarna, Egypt, dating to the 14th century BCE, document correspondence between Egyptian pharaohs and various rulers in Canaan, suggesting a complex mosaic of city-states and ethnic groups, including those that might be associated with the ancestors of the Israelites.


Originally posted by Magnus Bonapartus:
1. Book of Joshua:
The Book of Joshua describes the conquest of Canaan by the Israelites under the leadership of Joshua, following the Exodus from Egypt. Although this text has theological motivations, it provides an account of the Israelite tribes settling in Canaan, which roughly corresponds to the end of the Bronze Age.

2. Book of Judges:
This book describes the period of the Judges, during which the Israelites lived as a confederation of tribes in the region. The narratives include conflicts with neighboring peoples and cycles of decline and renewal, reflecting a time when the people of Israel were still forming as a nation.

3. Genesis and Exodus:
The early books of the Bible, such as Genesis and Exodus, recount the stories of the patriarchs (Abraham, Isaac, Jacob) and the Exodus from Egypt. These accounts establish the framework for Israelite identity and their relationship with the Promised Land, though the exact historicity of these stories is debated.

4. 1 and 2 Samuel:
These books describe the transition from the period of the Judges to the establishment of the monarchy, with Saul and David as the first kings. They document the formation of a unified kingdom, although this unification is generally dated to the Iron Age.

These biblical sources are important for understanding the identity and beliefs of the ancient Israelites, though they are primarily theological and narrative in nature. They should be considered alongside other historical and archaeological evidence to gain a more complete picture of the era.
Kendji  [developer] Jul 29, 2024 @ 1:20pm 
I've been viewing the different views and arguments. Leaning towards renaming Moses -> Yehoshua (Joshua) in the coming update
Kendji  [developer] Jul 30, 2024 @ 1:36pm 
Joshua is now playable. :)
Abaddon Aug 9, 2024 @ 8:34pm 
Cool. Great mod by the way.
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