Hi, I've got several questions regarding the new update. Hopefully this does not appear like I'm berating or nitpicking everything but more of if I could get clarification for some things.

1) With all the unit updates, I'm having trouble actually being able to load them in the main campaign, AO and Wehrmacht. They used to be able to load before seamlessly but now they won't even appear at all in the purchase menus.

2) Large portions of the infantry don't have access to any half-tracks and only have the Truck and Wagon allowed. This seems to be the case with PC1 remake as well so I'm guessing its intentional

3) Some infantry have their health pool reduced down to 12 HP instead of the standard 15. Pioneer , Grenadier , Volksgrenadier. I'm guessing it's to balance them due to their heavy usage over other variants

4) Rocket artillery doesn't seem to make any sense. 15cm Nblwf 41 appears fine but when we get to the 21cm and 30cm, they both have their ranges reduced to 1 and the "no move after attack and "no attack after move". This basically makes them sitting ducks

5) Unit stat inconsistencies

Fighters
ME252A-5; Fw 190A/U4; Bf 109G/R2; range appears too low compared to others

Tactical Bombers
Bv 141; Bf 109E/B; Bf 109G/R1; Bf 110B; Do 17Z Kauz, Do 217J, Do 335 Pfiel, Ju 388J, Ju 88G, Ju88P, Me 262 A-2 Sturmvogel; Ranges for these appear to be much lower than vanilla counterparts

Do 17Z Kauz appears 3 times, once as a tactical, twice as a strategic

Artillery
17 cm K18; range is 7. I'm certain this is unintentional

I've mentioned the plane issues to Grondel who is fine tuning the units rework. A lot of specialized infantry did recievd a nerf to their numbers. Pioneer and grenadiers are still quite good especially with heroes. Only certain infantry like pioneers will have access to halftracks.

All calibers larger than 15cm can only shoot or move, is intentional. Along with 17cm having 7 hex range.

Originally posted by Shin:

Hi, I've got several questions regarding the new update. Hopefully this does not appear like I'm berating or nitpicking everything but more of if I could get clarification for some things.

1) With all the unit updates, I'm having trouble actually being able to load them in the main campaign, AO and Wehrmacht. They used to be able to load before seamlessly but now they won't even appear at all in the purchase menus.

we removed a lot of units that were littering the purchase screen. if u miss any u can´t live without, let us know and we might bring them back.

Originally posted by Shin:

2) Large portions of the infantry don't have access to any half-tracks and only have the Truck and Wagon allowed. This seems to be the case with PC1 remake as well so I'm guessing its intentional
3) Some infantry have their health pool reduced down to 12 HP instead of the standard 15. Pioneer , Grenadier , Volksgrenadier. I'm guessing it's to balance them due to their heavy usage over other variants

it is indeed intentional. u might have noticed that pioneer and Grenadier units now have a max of 12 instead of 15. Those infantry are considered heavy infantry and are able to use the armored APC of the faction(SdKfz, UniversalCarrier, Kangaroo, etc.)
Regular Infantry is reduced to 2 core slots.
With the aditional traits on Grenadiers and Heavy Infantry the balance between the units feels a lot better. It´s no longer no-brain Pioneer all the way.
1941 and 1945 type infantry has been added as well to remove the imbalance with tanks in those areas.

Originally posted by Shin:

4) Rocket artillery doesn't seem to make any sense. 15cm Nblwf 41 appears fine but when we get to the 21cm and 30cm, they both have their ranges reduced to 1 and the "no move after attack and "no attack after move". This basically makes them sitting ducks

This is the historical range that was added to all artillery units. We are still in the process of balancing that and i agree that rockets make no sense in their current state. If u have any suggestions feel free to voice them.

Originally posted by Shin:

5) Unit stat inconsistencies
Fighters
ME252A-5; Fw 190A/U4; Bf 109G/R2; range appears too low compared to others
Tactical Bombers
Bv 141; Bf 109E/B; Bf 109G/R1; Bf 110B; Do 17Z Kauz, Do 217J, Do 335 Pfiel, Ju 388J, Ju 88G, Ju88P, Me 262 A-2 Sturmvogel; Ranges for these appear to be much lower than vanilla counterparts
Do 17Z Kauz appears 3 times, once as a tactical, twice as a strategic

Those are mostly left overs from the old units-mod. I´ll have a look and get them in line or remove. thx for pointing this out.

Originally posted by Shin:

Artillery
17 cm K18; range is 7. I'm certain this is unintentional

Same with the rockets. this is the actual range historically correct. While most artillery of that time had a accurate range of around 15km+-, the 17cm was created to outrange the enemy artillerie. In the usual German fashion we totaly overdid it and created this thing with a range of 25+km with extremly high accuracy for that range. The only other artillerie used in ww2 that was it´s equal is the 8 Inch M1 from the US that had an equal range.
But yes, this surely needs some rebalancing, if u have any suggestions let us know.

Thx for ur feedback, stuff like that helps a lot with polishing our creations.

"not appear like I'm berating or nitpicking everything"
please do, nothing on this planet ever got better by two people agreeing.

sers,
Thomas

Will do! Thanks for the quick update!

Just for additional clarification from my first comment about the modded units not loading, I'm referring to the fact that they don't seem to be in the purchase screen at all. For example, I can recall prior to the update being able to purchase the 24cm H39 during AO39, but now it and its counterparts aren't even available for purchase. When I checked again later on, it seems like most of the mod's units don't seem to load up in the purchase menu in AO or the Wehrmacht campaign when they used to. I only seemed to get them load when playing the random scenario game, and clicking the default year "---". Even then, the ordering of units draws up a clear line where the modded units are and are not. I can recall prior to the update the units were organized in between the vanilla units.

As for ideas and other comments, I've listed a few below, hope it is not too much

Rocket Artillery
Keep the range at 2 and allow them to move and attack. WW2 rocket artillery fit the role of primarily preparatory fire to saturate a target or area in short order, allowing them to be used shock and awe for the frontlines alongside other forces. I would personal like to see a small slot reduction of -1 since generally they are used less when compared to other artillery, but that's up for debate.

Bridging Units
Bridging units should probably have "no split" for more balancing. There's a good progression of bridging units but having a small rework of Brukenpanzer IV would be nice. Its defense is negligible for its -1 movement decrease. It would be nice to have a decision to make between having the faster II version and a sturdier IV version with say (18 ground def, 10 air def) but with 4 movement. The UK counterpart is extremely tough per say.

Commander Tanks
Sd. Kfz 250/5 and Sd. Kfz. 251/3 have the same cost but clearly one is much better than the other
Pz. Bef. Wg. IIIH and Pz Bef. Wg. IIIJ have the same costs despite different stats
Pz. Bef. Wg. Tiger would be nice to have 4 movement to atleast keep up with the other Tiger IIs

Artillery
203mm M1931 switches to nothing
ISU-152 switches to nothing despite being capable of being an AT in base game
Alot of the Soviet armored self-propelled artillery have longer ranges of 4 and even 5. Not sure if it was mean't to be balanced that way
17cm could have a switchable state. The first would be its base game stats with 4 range, but with the capability of switching over to the 7 range with a drawback of being a "vulnerable target". The 17cm K18 should already be away from trouble but should it get engaged during its long range state, it would very punishing

Tanks
Panther II models looks off since it doesn't use the same model as the one in vanilla. Not sure if this was intentional.

Tactical Bombers
Hs 126. Really fun special recon plane to have with its double move and 5 spotting. They were actually kept in use until surprisingly 1943. I kept mine alive until AO45 with Resilient, Camouflage, and Fast Rebase. Would be nice to have it back as a unique recon plane.

That's all I have for now. Thanks for the rapid support! I'll be happy to bring up any future concerns, but I am looking forward to the teams progress!

@shin If you just want to use the original Unit Toolbox mod units in AO and the base campaign, an early version of that mod is still available on the Slitherine forum page.

Alternatively, the "More Units" mod on Steam has a version of the Unit Toolbox mod (though from the description it may be edited to its creator's preferences)

Originally posted by Shin:

Will do! Thanks for the quick update!

Just for additional clarification from my first comment about the modded units not loading, I'm referring to the fact that they don't seem to be in the purchase screen at all. For example, I can recall prior to the update being able to purchase the 24cm H39 during AO39, but now it and its counterparts aren't even available for purchase. When I checked again later on, it seems like most of the mod's units don't seem to load up in the purchase menu in AO or the Wehrmacht campaign when they used to. I only seemed to get them load when playing the random scenario game, and clicking the default year "---". Even then, the ordering of units draws up a clear line where the modded units are and are not. I can recall prior to the update the units were organized in between the vanilla units.

A lot have been removed to unclutter the purchase screen.
As for the 24 cm, only 18 of those things existed, making it readily available for multi use feels wrong. maybe they will show up as gift units somewhere.

Originally posted by Shin:

Will do! Thanks for the quick update!
As for ideas and other comments, I've listed a few below, hope it is not too much

There is no too much any idea is welcome. If we are able or willing to make them happen is another story, but all will be heard.

Originally posted by Shin:

Will do! Thanks for the quick update!
Rocket Artillery
Keep the range at 2 and allow them to move and attack. WW2 rocket artillery fit the role of primarily preparatory fire to saturate a target or area in short order, allowing them to be used shock and awe for the frontlines alongside other forces. I would personal like to see a small slot reduction of -1 since generally they are used less when compared to other artillery, but that's up for debate.

Bridging Units
Bridging units should probably have "no split" for more balancing. There's a good progression of bridging units but having a small rework of Brukenpanzer IV would be nice. Its defense is negligible for its -1 movement decrease. It would be nice to have a decision to make between having the faster II version and a sturdier IV version with say (18 ground def, 10 air def) but with 4 movement. The UK counterpart is extremely tough per say.

Commander Tanks
Sd. Kfz 250/5 and Sd. Kfz. 251/3 have the same cost but clearly one is much better than the other
Pz. Bef. Wg. IIIH and Pz Bef. Wg. IIIJ have the same costs despite different stats
Pz. Bef. Wg. Tiger would be nice to have 4 movement to atleast keep up with the other Tiger IIs

Artillery
203mm M1931 switches to nothing
ISU-152 switches to nothing despite being capable of being an AT in base game
Alot of the Soviet armored self-propelled artillery have longer ranges of 4 and even 5. Not sure if it was mean't to be balanced that way
17cm could have a switchable state. The first would be its base game stats with 4 range, but with the capability of switching over to the 7 range with a drawback of being a "vulnerable target". The 17cm K18 should already be away from trouble but should it get engaged during its long range state, it would very punishing

Tanks
Panther II models looks off since it doesn't use the same model as the one in vanilla. Not sure if this was intentional.

Tactical Bombers
Hs 126. Really fun special recon plane to have with its double move and 5 spotting. They were actually kept in use until surprisingly 1943. I kept mine alive until AO45 with Resilient, Camouflage, and Fast Rebase. Would be nice to have it back as a unique recon plane.

That's all I have for now. Thanks for the rapid support! I'll be happy to bring up any future concerns, but I am looking forward to the teams progress!

Thx for the input.

sers,
Thomas

Hey all!

Thanks for all the input, looking forward to seeing what's to come!

Hi, overall I like the new unit system, especially for the changes to infantry and fighter. But I think the artillery and AA guns are strange. The 2cm AA guns can switch to artillery fire, I think it's a brilliant idea. But unlike artillery, they cause direct damage. They have a range of 1, and actually decent soft and hard attack. This makes them way too powerful in the early war, when used against tanks and infantry. Basically they can cause tons of damage without taking return fire. They cost only 1 core slot, and are more sturdier than artillery. I get that historically AA guns are also used as fire support guns, but maybe give them an indirect fire trait?

Originally posted by Ahoy:

Hi, overall I like the new unit system, especially for the changes to infantry and fighter. But I think the artillery and AA guns are strange. The 2cm AA guns can switch to artillery fire, I think it's a brilliant idea. But unlike artillery, they cause direct damage. They have a range of 1, and actually decent soft and hard attack. This makes them way too powerful in the early war, when used against tanks and infantry. Basically they can cause tons of damage without taking return fire. They cost only 1 core slot, and are more sturdier than artillery. I get that historically AA guns are also used as fire support guns, but maybe give them an indirect fire trait?

thx for the feedback.
The current version of the units-file is set to be historical/physical as correct as possible.
This def causes several balance issues which we will figure out in the rest of the year.
Small caliber AA guns are one of them.

If u have more ideas feel free to let us know.

sers,
Thomas

Feedback: I've played the campaign through from SCW to 1040 a few times & here are my generalized summary conclusions:

Unless the enemy resistance on SCW is lowered significantly by a change to the mod, there is no way to acquire enough heroes to carry on without kleptokrieg traits and auxillary fores. My first time through, I had very serious prestige issues in SCW even with the standard ruleset (a free hero every scenario and killer team) for at least the first half of the campaign. I was almost 100% certain that SOE SCW would be impossible using the new 1K/3K/5K hero purchase system with anything remotely resembling my "standard play" so ran a test. I implemented the new rules via ChatGPT choosing a hero for me and then charged myself the 1K/3K/5K manually via console commands. The result was a tier 3 hero each and every scenario all the way through 1940. Once a core of tier 3 heroes was gathered in SCW, the aux forces/trophies kleptokrieg was no longer necessary in 1939 & beyond.

This leaves me thinking of the SCW in its present state as impossible w/out Kleptokrieg/aux forces on one side and laughably easy on the other side with Kleptokrieg in effect (aux forces/trophies). This limits options IMO and demands a very constricted strategy in SCW.

Of course, this is JMO and relative to my playstyle. All in all well done! Very much enjoy your mod. Thank you for the effort.

PS, what happened to this Barkman fellow?

there are new campaigns Storm over Europe in future?

Originally posted by dottalessio:

there are new campaigns Storm over Europe in future?

Yes, 1940 Redux will be releasing within a month or two.

ok. thanks