The Binding of Isaac: Rebirth

The Binding of Isaac: Rebirth

Reworked Tainted Lazarus
 This topic has been pinned, so it's probably important
shenanigans  [developer] May 24, 2021 @ 2:46am
Default Config Help
After some updates to the mod I have reached a point where a lot of elements are configurable. On one hand that's pretty neat since you can choose to buff/nerf a lot of interactions the way you see fit. You can even make the mod completely useless by disabling Flip swapping items at all. However, I'm having trouble deciding on a default config. These are the options available currently where I'm not sure what to pick, along with my default ideas:
  • Flip Recharge on Item Pickup - Disabled? (it's an outdated way to make giving both items to a Lazarus easy.)
  • Flip on Item Pickup - Disabled? (another way to make giving both items easy. Coupled with type 1 or type 2 flips, it certainly feels smoother than just recharging Flip, but still feels a bit on the easy side since it guarantees getting both items.)
  • Flip Max Charges - 3? (I think by default regular Flip should be the only way to switch characters (that includes the room clear effect), but the charge time improvement should make you less reliant on entering rooms in the right order to maximize the amount of times you can get the second item.)
  • Normal Flip Type - 1? (there should be a way to swap all items, if there wasn't, getting an active on a pedestal while having another active would make it impossible to access the mirror item.)
  • Item Pickup Flip Type - 2??? (assuming Flip on Item Pickup is enabled at all)
For context, flip type 1 swaps every item with its mirror item, flip type 2 doesn't swap items unless the non-mirror item is taken, and flip type 3 only swaps Lazarus (vanilla behavior).

There are more config options but these are the ones where I need some second opinions.
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Showing 1-3 of 3 comments
radyjko Jun 4, 2021 @ 12:12pm 
With the mod growing ever more complex, perhaps it would be good to introduce config presets? Not sure how config mod would be able to handle those, but a topmost setting which would override others with preset settings unless set to custom I think should certainly be possible.

As for default config, I will forever hold the opinion that autoflip on pickup is the best way to make rework feel smooth, as you do not need to do anything to benefit from it, but it still offers you a way to fiddle with distribution of items via use of flip. It also strikes me as a bit more balanced for co-op, but admmitedly I hadn't done in-depth analysis

That said, I think flip on item pickup would work better with configurable chance for pedestal to be mirror pedestal, per item pool. Say 100% for Boss, 80% for item room, 50% for devil, angel and shop items, 25% for chests etc. That way the game doesn't just straight up give you double items and playing will require a bit more finesse in choices (For example, buy one good item in shop without mirrored item, or get two weaker items for price of one?)

Also, isn't there a way to check if item has been picked up already? That could adress issues with Flip recharge on pickup and active items blocking pedestal on flip type 2...

But I digress. My pick for default config:
Flip recharge - Disabled
Flip on pickup - Enabled (See above)
Flip max charges - 6 (default)
Flip type - 2 on both (The rationale being that you have to pick the non-mirrored to access mirrored item. Sorry, can't pick mirrored Magic Mush if you won't pick up cursed eye in front for ex)

Edit: Giving it further thought, setting Normal flip type to 2 but Item pickup flip type to 1 would somewhat address the issue of active items blocking pedestals, as old active would just flip away and give way for flipped laz to pick the other item. I imagine it would work junky in case of rooms with more than 1 mirror item in it, as it would swap also all other pedestals - perhaps a 4th flip type for item pickup specifically which flips the pedestal you just picked up from (closest to you?) could be added?
Last edited by radyjko; Jun 4, 2021 @ 12:43pm
Tw1ntend0 Jun 7, 2021 @ 2:32pm 
I personally believe the following settings would be optimal:
Flip Recharge on Item Pickup - Disabled
Flip on Item Pickup - Disabled
Flip Max Charges - 6
Normal Flip Type - 2
Item Pickup Flip Type - 2 (doesn't particularly matter as flip on item pickup is disabled)

I think this is the setting that is most faithful to the tainted Lazarus vanilla experience, while keeping interesting gameplay significance.
It basically makes it so that the flip mechanic to pickup an item is much more interesting, as you can ONLY get a second item by using flip (as it should be for balance). However, there is greater agency associated with the flip mechanic now dependent in what items are available, for example:
Both the main item and mirror item are good - grab the main item, then flip to grab the other.
The main item is good but the mirror item sucks - just grab the main item, you can pick which character gets it using flip (or just clear another room to flip for free).
The main item sucks but the mirror item is good - if you want the good item, one character is going to have to suffer (which is only fair given the double options), pick up the first one and then flip for the good item.

The fact that flipping doesn't change the item is perfect for balance as for things like treasure rooms or challenge rooms or boss rooms, you can easily flip for free by clearing another room and then having the charge saved to pick up both items in said room; while in things like devil/angel rooms, you don't have the option to simply flip for free by clearing another room, so your options will basically be destined to a certain character and may force more difficult flipping choices with your character to determine who gets what.

Ultimately, this setting just seems like the most dynamic and fair of the bunch. The 6 charges remain faithful and appropriately limited in this context, while the mechanic of flipping after every room becomes more usable in gameplay.

Hope this helps :)
shovelflow Jan 23, 2022 @ 4:22am 
Originally posted by shenanigans bunul:
After some updates to the mod I have reached a point where a lot of elements are configurable. On one hand that's pretty neat since you can choose to buff/nerf a lot of interactions the way you see fit. You can even make the mod completely useless by disabling Flip swapping items at all. However, I'm having trouble deciding on a default config. These are the options available currently where I'm not sure what to pick, along with my default ideas:
  • Flip Recharge on Item Pickup - Disabled? (it's an outdated way to make giving both items to a Lazarus easy.)
  • Flip on Item Pickup - Disabled? (another way to make giving both items easy. Coupled with type 1 or type 2 flips, it certainly feels smoother than just recharging Flip, but still feels a bit on the easy side since it guarantees getting both items.)
  • Flip Max Charges - 3? (I think by default regular Flip should be the only way to switch characters (that includes the room clear effect), but the charge time improvement should make you less reliant on entering rooms in the right order to maximize the amount of times you can get the second item.)
  • Normal Flip Type - 1? (there should be a way to swap all items, if there wasn't, getting an active on a pedestal while having another active would make it impossible to access the mirror item.)
  • Item Pickup Flip Type - 2??? (assuming Flip on Item Pickup is enabled at all)
For context, flip type 1 swaps every item with its mirror item, flip type 2 doesn't swap items unless the non-mirror item is taken, and flip type 3 only swaps Lazarus (vanilla behavior).

There are more config options but these are the ones where I need some second opinions.
could you make a config to make disable the mod's ghost item?
i like all the other configuration of the mod, that way the mod will stop being obsolete
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