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Well, it's not that kind of "mocking", where you're insulting others, but more like making fun of them in a good way. Who ever founded the village "Domažlice" (I guess it were some war refugees), they named it "Taus", which isn't really Slavic, so some guy just named them "Domažlice" for the first time and people liked it.
Pretty much the same thing happened with Silesian "Otmuchów", which is supposed to say – they are "od much" (stinky).
In case of "Otmuchów", it's obviously a bad kind of mocking, while in case of "Domažlice", it's a good kind.
But in both cases, they're not named "Přistěhovalce" ("Przybyszew") or "Śmierdzielów". The autor was quite undirect about it, which makes it funny and original.
(And, by the way, I just realized, that "Przybysz", "Przybychowo" and "Przybyszew" most likely derives from the name "Przybych", which is form of the Slavic name "Przybysław", so it has nothing to do with incomers after all...)
b_zdar, c_pozega, b_pozega
Accepted. It will appear in the next version as "Żdżary" "Żdżarian".
Funny thing is that we have only one village called "Žďáry", but 11 villages called "Žďár" and many other places with the singular form. I guess it's because in Czech, no matter what, thare is only one "ž" in the pronunciation.
This is a good catch from you, thank you. :)
b_kutina
Accepted. It will appear in the next version as "Kącina" "Kącinian".
Again, amazing thing to notice that, I made actually a mistake here!
In Serbo-croatian, the word "Kut" means "Corner" in English, which is "Kout" in Czech.
Then I translated "Kout" to Polish (from Czech), which is either "Kuć" or "Kąt", but as you can probably tell, "Kuć" is a verb and means something totaly different, so thank you so much for it!
b_koporna, b_krapina
The thing is that it's supposed to be named after the river, so "Karpniec" is supposed to be a river name.
What about dropping that "n" and name it "Karpiec"? Does it sound better?
b_garestin
Fixed. It will appear in the next version as "Gareszcin" "Gareszcinian".
I totaly forgot to change the "t" to "ć" here, thanks for noticing that. On this line, I made the same mistake in Upper and Lower Sorbian, too.
b_sisak
I'll let this opened for now, because I think that "Siegfried" is "Zygfryd" in Polish, because Germans read "S" as "Z", so "Zygfryd" is the actual record of the reading and nothing was changed.
The Serbo-croatian "Sisak" is derived from Latin "Siscia", which is named after the local Celtic tribe called "Segestani", which are probably named after their pagan god caled "Segest". Then it goes "Segest" >> "Sigast" >> "Sygoszcz".
I'm still willing to change it to "Zygoszcz", if you think it'd sound more natural, but just look at it once again and try to find a better example of this "syg"/"zyg" change.
(And, by the way, the actually correct translation of "Siegfried" to Polish is "Zwycięzmir". I couldn't find it on Google though...)
b_okic
I looked at the name again and I actually made a mistake here, because the Czech variation Ochoz[cs.wikipedia.org] should be Ochodza[pl.wikipedia.org] in Polish, so I'm changing the name to that. (I don't know why I didn't find it last time).
Being that was, what about changing "Bezdziadz" to "Bezdziadza", does it sounds better to you? Also having "Chociebądz" as "Chociebądź" is still opened.
c_gacka, b_senj
Accepted. It will appear in the next version as "Senów" "Senowian".
I actually thought that "Seń" will be good for you, since the original name is "Senj" and Polish has the same shortening-name tendencies as Serbo-croatian.
b_brinje
I think it was supposed to be more like "Brynie"? I definitely made a mistake here, but what sounds more natural to you? "Brynie"? "Brynio"? "Bryńo"? I guess the last one is completelly wrong, but I still add it as an option here.
c_cherso
Yeah, I also think "Chrušec" sounds good. It sounds so good that I want to rename the original Serbo-croatian "Cres" (which sounds awful to any Slavic person), to "Hrušac", too...
Okay, I'm doing exactly that. I have changed "Zadar" to "Okogreb" anyway.
The new version of the name is:
Okay, that's the first pass, let's wait for the others.
Also this one's gonna appear on another page, so I hope you'll not miss it.
See you soon (hopefully).
PS@ I am not sure if I prefer "Błądzim" more than "Przybyszew" to be honest... I was just trying to give you more ideas.
b_krapina - "Karpiec" sounds very good to me :)
b_garestin - I suggest "Gareszczyn". This "szci" does not sound Polish to me. Compare: "szcin" part in place names occurs 0 times, "szczyn" occurs 425 times :P (btw. I search this in the pdf file that I sent you if you would like to verify it)
b_sisak - Hm, I think you're right here. We change "z" into "s" (the process is called "sonoryzacja" in Polish, I couldn't find the direct translation into English but probably "vocalization" is the right term for it...?) but we change it not so often as I thought. It often occurs, as you said, when we transcribe German words. For example, the Polish word "Syjon" (eng. Zion) came to Polish directly from Latin, and we didn't change "s" to "z", but Germans and English have "Zion" so they changed it. I think you should leave "Sygoszcz" then :P But remember, "syg" occurs 12 times, "zyg" 343 times, that's probably why I had this feeling that it should be "z' instead of "s".
b_okic - Ochodza sounds much better. When it comes to "Bezdziadza" I think this is a little bit different case, because of the double occurence of "dz" + "z" part in "bez". These make the name hard to pronounce. In case of "Ochodza", changing "dz" into "dza" made the pronunciation quite natural and easy, but "Bezdziad" or "Bezdziadza" both sound quite unnatural to me :P I would go for "Bezdziad", there is one place in Poland with "dziad" part and it is called "Tułodziad", no "z" at the end. I think "Chociebądz" may stay, actually I found at least 6 places with ending "bądz" so I will leave it :)
c_gacka, b_senj - Actually I may be wrong here, because there are places like "Wleń", "Bień" "Breń", "Pień, "Mień" or "Tleń" but as you can see, all of these names have at least 4 letters and you may laugh as much as you want but I think the difference between 3 letter word and 4 letter word is crucial here :P Anyway, "Seń" does not look good in my opinion, but the examples (Wleń etc.) looks good for me, quite hard to tell why excatly. So I think "Senów" would be better :P
b_brinje - "Brynie" looks and sounds the best for me.
Alright, let's go further:
b_udbina as Krbawa --> "krb" is rather Czech/Slovak, not Polish. I found only one place in Poland with "krb" part - "Skrbeńsko". It is a village that has a Polish-Czech border crossing within its territory (it is located 20km from Ostrava), so I guess the name was hugely influenced by the Czech language. Blood in Polish is "krew" so it is very similiar. I suggest "Krwony" then (there is an actual place in PL called that), or maybe "Krabawa" as in Sorbian. Also we sometimes (mainly in poetry/literary works I think) use the name "posoka" for "blood" and there are 2 places called "Posoka" in Poland, but you told me once that you would like to have similar names in every slavic language so I would go for "Krwony". "krw" part is commonly used, e.g. genitive version of "krew" is "krwi".
b_bribir as Brybirz - I sugest "Brybórz", "birz" does not occur in Polish place names. "Brybysz" also sounds fine. However, "Brybyrz" is in my opinion not good, "byrz" occurs 0 times while "bysz" occurs 62 times. "bórz" occurs 75 times btw.
c_cetina b_sinjcroat as Siń - There should be some letter in between "s" and "i" in my opinion. We have an old-fashioned word "sień" (the first room into which you enter in a house) but it does not fit the etymology or any other names in remain languages. I suggest maybe sth with "o" at the beginning as in Czech: "Osiny", "Osiniec", "Osina", "Osienniki" (all of these are actual places in Poland).
b_split as Kapiniek - I suggest "Kapinek" without double "i". "iniek" occurs 0 times in Polish names while "inek" occurs 323 times. I wonder why is that, because we normally use "inie" instead of "ine" :P For example, there are 416 occurences of "inie" and 341 of "ine" and as you can see 323 of "ine" (95%) occurences has "k" at the end. :P
b_solin as Solin - There is a nice place to visit in Poland quite near my place of living called "Solina" but I guess "Solin" may stay because it sounds and looks good :P Nevertheless, there is no place called "Solin" in Poland and one called "Solina"... but Solin does not sound bad so it is up to you.
c_rama and b_visoki as Wysoki - I would add "e" in the end so it would be "Wysokie". We have 23 places called "wysokie" but 0 places called "wysoki". There is always sth after "wysoki" e.g. "Wysoki Most" (high bridge).
c_vhrbosna as Szczyt Bośniacki --> I think it should has the Czech order, so it would be "Bośniacki Szczyt" because we use that order e.g. when we have a place with 2 parts and one of these part is "góra" (mountain). So it is "Jelenia Góra" not "Góra Jelenia" or "Zielona Góra" not "Góra Zielona" :P Although I think "Szczyt Bośniacki" is not essentialy wrong, because we have e.g. "Góra Kalwaria" with reversed order... but in this case I think I actually couldn't reverse the order, so "Kalwaria Góra" is completely wrong, it should be "Kalwaryjska Góra" maybe or sth like that. So yeah, I would go for "Bośniacki Szczyt".
c_soli and b_soli as Sole --> It sounds fine and may stay like that, but there is no place called "Sole" in Poland, more natural would be "Solec" as we have 8 places called that with the same etymology. (etymology of a place called "Solec" from Google: its names derives from salt which was transported in Vistula from salt mine called Wieliczka)
c_kaseg as Gospiec --> How about "Wolniki"? "wolny" means "free" in Polish and it fits "free man" etymology.
c_lika as Gospiec --> So the name originally comes from "wolf" (pol. wilk) ... how about "Wilczewo" or "Wilczkowice"?
Alright, that's all for now :P
PS@ So as you can see, most of these changes are just one letter changes. I hope you don't mind it, because I think it is time-consuming for you but as the names are already quite good (taking into consideration that they were created by non-native user of Polish the names are awesome) I think my job is to refine them, rather than completely change the names :P
Yeah, I actually like this one! In Czech, it would be "Bloudím", which has the same feeling as "Domažlice" to me. I'm sorry you don't like it as much as I do...
The new version of the name is:
b_koporna, b_krapina
Fixed. It will appear in the next version as "Karpiec" "Karpiecian".
b_garestin
Fixed. It will appear in the next version as "Gareszczyn" "Gareszczynian".
I have learned something today. I already noticed that a few Sorbian "-šćin" is "-szczyn" in Polish, but I didn't know it's a rule. Thanks, I shouldn't do the same mistake again.
b_bezdez
Accepted. It will appear in the next version as "Bezdziad" "Bezdziadian".
I'll still keep it with "-z" end in Sorbian though. In case of Upper Sorbian it sounds fine and in case of Lower Sorbian ("Bźezdźěz") it's so hard to pronounce I don't even know where to start fixing it. :D
Previously, I didn't consider the pronounciation so much, but I guess it has much higher effect than I originally thought...
b_brinje
Fixed. It will appear in the next version as "Brynie" "Brynian".
b_udbina
Hmm... If I remember corectly, my idea when translating this name was, that the original name in Serbo-Croatian was "Krbava", which is basicaly "Krvava" with the "V" changed to "B" as the common occurrence in every Indo-European language (because they're both voiced labials).
We're talking about river here again, so when the meaning is "Blood", it should be "Krwawa" in Polish (with meaning "bloody river") and then the "W" changed to "B".
I don't mind changing it for Polish (and eventually also Sorbian), since you don't have syllabic "R" (link[pl.wikipedia.org]), but try to think up something better with those informations.
b_bribir
Well, the Serbo-Croatian "Bribir" has old Latin name "Varvaria", so it was changed the same way as "Krbava". I'm not surprised you pointed this out.
The Czech name "Bribiř" is very similar to "Sibiř" to me, so it sounds tolerably fine, but I've just found out, you call the region Syberia (link[pl.wikipedia.org]), so what do you think about naming it "Bryberia"?
c_cetina, b_sinjcroat
Hah, I see, this has only 3 letters again.
But before considering something else, I'd like to point out that "Sinj" can be transcribed not only as "Siń", but also "Syń", so try to think up something with that variation, too.
b_split
The name should derives from the flower called "Calicotome spinosa" in Latin, which is "Kapinika"/"Hlapinika" in Serbo-Croatian and "Čilimka" in Czech.
I didn't find the Polish variation, but I'm sure it would be the best to start here. Could you try find something?
c_rama, b_visoki
I get what you're saying, we had similar conversation about "Słony". It's weird to me, too, but unless you confirm there is not even a single one place in Poland being an adjective in masculine form, I'm gonna keep it.
(I guess those places were originally named "Wysoki Grąd" or something and then the second part got dropped.)
c_vhrbosna, b_vhrbosna
Fixed. It will appear in the next version as "Bośniacki Szczyt" "Szczytian".
c_soli, b_soli
This place sounds so weird to me that I had to name it "Dobrosol" in Bohemian languages. Polish variation ("Dobrogóra") doesn't make sense here, so I actually translated "Soli" to Polish, which is "Sole" and I'm glad it sounds acceptable to you. I'm gonna keep it.
b_kaseg
Heh, this place is like nightmare to me. The original name was "Chasek" (or something like that), which derives from Slavic "Chas", which means "Child" or "Free man".
In Czech, we have the word "Chasa" (obsolete term for "Commoners") and "Chasník" (obsolete term for "Commoner"), so I named it "Chasíkov" in the Bohemian languages.
The problem is, that the current Serbo-Croatian name is "Gospić", which has the same origin as "Gospod" ("Lord") or "Gospoda" (Gentleman). And, yes, the Polish word "Gospoda" (pub) has the same origin, that's why I named it "Gospiec" in Polish.
Does it sound any wrong? Unless you have something with "Chas", I don't really want to change it...
c_lika
Lika is a direct name of a river. In Serbo-Croatian, they don't tend to name larger regions "Czeska", "Polska" or "Słowacka", but directly after the rivers "Bosna", "Usora" or "Lika".
I'm not translating those names, because it's only their cultural thing, but I keep the explanation there for other languages with the same custom.
And I don't mind at all. I might get busy for the next two days again, but as your suggestions are getting better and better, I can't wait for the next set. :)
b_bribir as Bryberia --> I love it, it sounds awesome for me :D
c_cetina b_sinjcroat --> Hm, Syń is fine for me to be honest :P. As I said, it's not like every 3 letter names are wrong, it was my bad that I said they are, but definately "Siń" is not good because we will pronounce it as "Śń" which I think you can see that it will not sound too good :P It's because we do not pronounce "si" as Spanish "Yes.", we always pronounce "si" as "ś". Hm, so how about these variations: "Osynów" "Osyna" "Ostynów" "Ostyna" "Ostyniec" "Syna" "Syniec". I think I like "Syniec" and "Ostynów" the most but it's up to you :P
b_split --> Yeah, I was trying to find the Polish name of this plant a few days ago already. I've tried again right now and to be honest I couldn't find anything. There are some variations but they were translated by google translator from some English texts so I couldn't find any reliable Polish equivalents at all. I don't know much about plants, but I found a very similar flower with Polish equivalent name here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genista. It looks (almost) the same as Calicotome spinosa, doesn't it :P? It's called "Janowiec" so if I were to create sth from this name... hm, well, actually I think I would leave "Janowiec" because it sounds nice for me already. Let's say that potential Polish settlers that discovered the new plant named it after the Old Polish one that name they knew because they were just poor illiterate settlers :P What do you think?
c_rama, b_visoki --> Ah yes, you're right that we talked about it already. Don't get me wrong right know, because I don't want to be rude and just want to help, but let me ask you - shouldn't it be reversed so you should confirm that there is at least one place in Poland which is in masculine adjective :P? I was trying to find at least one place like that and I didn't find anything, for real. It's not like "Wysoki" or "Słony" is essentially wrong for me, but just out of curiosity, do you know of any place which name is in masculine adjective form in Poland? I tried these already: "Wysoki" "Szeroki" "Niski" "Cienki" "Rzeczny" "Głęboki" "Górski" "Dolny" "Górny" "Morski" "Słony" (high-wide-short-thin-river like-deep-mountain like-lower-upper-sea like-salty) and there are totally 0 places like that. Just for the record, there is one "Szeroki" and one "Górski" as parts of some villages. I think I don't have to tell you that these were created by some small group of people in their specific environments and they probably did not know any Polish language rules back then :P... And I think I tried to find adjectives which could actually be in people's mind when they named their places of living, most of them corresponds to the characteristic features of their places of living so for example "Morski" corresponds to the fact that the place is close to the sea... but still, 0 places called "Morski". Compare: we have 6 parts of village and 1 real place called "Szerokie" and 1 part of village + 3 real places called "Górskie" so I think that there is a rule to add -e to these adjectives :P I just wanted to keep you up to date, if you still think these names are fine, I will not argue anymore.
b_kaseg - Ah, so that's the way you created "Gospiec", I couldn't figure it out when I first saw it to be honest :P Well, this -spiec took my attention already so I checked the correctness of it and... yeah, it's wrong I think. We use -piec ending but we (almost) always use a vowel before "p" so we have places like: "Biskupiec" "Czepiec" "Kopiec" "Lipiec" "Okopiec" "Skrzypiec" "Słopiec" "Słupiec" "Trzepieciny" "Zakopiec" and even more. There is one exception that I found and it's "Okarpiec" but it is exception because "Karp" means "Carp", a very popular fish in Poland so I think -spiec is not right. So yeah, we have "Gospodarz" (host/lord) "Gospodyni" (a wife of Gospodarz/hostess) "Gospoda" (tavern/pub) so I suggest hm maybe "Gospodyniec" :P? Or maybe you have some ideas how to avoid "spiec" ending? It's not like it's essentially wrong by the way, I think it could stay if you really like it :P
Alright, let's go further:
b_travnik as Trawy --> Personally I think that a name similar to the Czech one, so "Trawnik", would be better, "Trawy" means "Grasses" and "Trawnik" means "Lawn" but it does not matter so much to me, I just like the ending -nik more than -y :P So I am not saying that "Trawy" is bad.
b_srebrenica as Srebrna Góra --> So last time I stated that "Bośniacki Szczyt" sounds better than "Szczyt Bośniacki" and thankfully you changed it :P But as I told you before, your intuition was not essentially wrong and I think that in this case "Góra Srebrna" would be as nice as "Srebrna Góra". I don't think it matter so much, but if you want to reverse the order in Polish version, this is a good case in which you can do it in my opinion. Although "Srebrna Góra" is more common for sure.
b_usora as Doboj --> I think it should be "Dobój". "Bój" means "a battle" in Polish.
b_tolisa as Szlamka --> I love this one :D
c_vrbas as Pańska Łąka --> Now, here I think you should reverse the order. I associated it with "Passion of Jesus" which is in Polish "Męka Pańska", not "Pańska Męka". So I suggest "Łąka Pańska", it sounds more natural.
b_glaz as Glasz --> I wonder about "gl" part... we would rather say "gł" (although we have word with "gl" part, but much more with "gł"), if it derives from a name I would rather suggest "Głach" instead of "Glasz".
c_vodica as Krajna --> I think "Kraina" is the Polish word for "Krajna" :P https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kraina
c_pset as Bichów --> Yet again I suggest that the Polish version should be more Czech :P, so "Bychów". I just think we often shift "i" to "y" in names (Paris -> Paryż ; Madrid -> Madryt) and it definately sounds and looks more Polish to me.
c_donjikraji and b_jajce as Jajo --> :P Well, I guess we talked about these singular nouns already, but I would suggest "Jajostok"/"Jajkowice" anyway, because this single "Jajo" looks so weird.
b_hlivno as Gliwno --> Horse stable would be "Stajnia" in Polish, it is not close to "Gliwno" at all but I guess you know it already. Btw. the etymologic word "Hlijev" sounds like Polish "Chlew" which means "a hoghouse". So how about "Chlewno" "Chlewo" or "Chlewice" :P?
PS@ There is not much left, so let mi finish it here:
b_gacko as Małe Goty -> The people of Goths are not "Goty" but "Goci", yet "Mali Goci" sounds terrible in my opinion. How about merging it into "Małogotów"? "Gotów" is fine, here you have Polish conjugation of this word: https://odmiana.net/odmiana-przez-przypadki-rzeczownika-got PPS@ Now I noticed that we also use "Goty", but as you can see it's not the first prime version :P So you may left "Małe Goty" imo.
b_nevesinje as Dziewięczile --> Hm, this "czile" part looks like a calque of the Chile. I suggest "Dziewięćsił" (a plant name, similar to the etymology) or the Polish name for the etymological plant, so "Lepiężnik".
b_mokro as Mokrsko --> I know that there is a real place called that, but this "krsk" is really uncommon, it did not look Polish for me at first glance. I would suggest changing the name to one of the older names of the village "Mokrsko" that is "Morsko".
I don't have much time left today, so I'm sorry for being a little bit in hurry. I will surely write here again because I want to think more about the remaining names if I may :) See you soon.
Well, I prefer "Krwawa", so let's go with that. It will appear in the next version as "Krwawa" "Krwawian".
b_bribir
Fixed. It will appear in the next version as "Bryberia" "Bryberian".
c_cetina b_sinjcroat
Fixed. It will appear in the next version as "Syń" "Synian".
b_split
Honestly? I love it!
It's a shame that there is no good name for the actual flower, but it has the same order and even family, so why not, right?
I love it so much that I'm even gonna borrow that idea for all the Bohemian languages, so the new version of the name is:
c_rama, b_visoki
I don't think you're rude at all, I'm no all knowing God and you've proofed me wrong many times before. In a sence, I'm glad you're defending your point. Now, when you're way more educated, it has even higher value to me.
However, it also troubles me, because you may be perfectly right and I should change it,but as I said before, I was unaware of "Slaný" and if you'd ask me to find a single Czech place name, which is an adjective in masculine form, I'd pretty much fail just as you did (because the name "Slaný" wouldn't even cross my mind).
Yet, I'm quite sure there is more than one such place in Czechia. I just have this feeling, that it's not for the first time I encountered such name.
I trust your language skill enough to believe you a similar claiming, so if you confirm me (even by your guts), "I'm sure there is no such place in Poland", I'm willing to change it (both of them), but are you really sure?
Didn't that idea of dropping the second part of "Wysoki Grąd" just click to you? I mean, maybe you're right and it's unnatural to Polish, but I'd expect so.
b_kaseg
Well, the Serbo-Croatian termination "-ić" is much more similar to Polish "-ek", but the variation "Gospek" just sounds wrong to me. I think even "Gospiek" is weird and, honestly, I don't know what to do about it. (But I want to keep it short and start only with "Gosp-", not with "Gospod-".)
b_travnik
In a sense, I'm willing to make an exception and accept the "-ik" termination in Polish here (which I do, but only rarely), but as I looked at the list, there is no village called "Trawnik" in Poland, but "Trawniki" is more common as a place name. What about that variation?
b_srebrenica
I'm still not sure how this goes in Polish, but I'm currently using the logic that you use <adjective><noun> order only for the Descriptive Adjectives, which is most of them, but they don't appear in the place names so much.
b_usora
As I'm willing to change it to "Dobój", aren't you saying "Do boju"? "Doboj" is like "Doboju" without the "-u".
c_vrbas, b_banjaluka
Fixed. It will appear in the next version as "Łąka Pańska" "Łąkian".
b_glaz
Fixed. It will appear in the next version as "Głasz" "Głaszian".
Yeah, I totaly forgot to change the "Ł" here, it's definitelly hard.
c_vodica
I named it after "Krajna", a county in Poland with the same name (link[pl.wikipedia.org]).
c_pset, b_bihac
Fixed. It will appear in the next version as "Bychów" "Bychowian".
c_donjikraji, b_jajce
Yeah, I can tell that "Jajo" is the most weird of them all (at least to me), but as I said before, the original name is just "Jajce", which is literally "Egg", without any change. (But I guess it fits the place – see link[pl.wikipedia.org])
I'm willing to keep it as "Jajce" in Polish, what do you think of that?
And where did you find that "Jajostok". :D That sounds awesome, but totaly unusable here. :D
b_hlivno
Yeah, I actually made a mistake here. The Slavic word "Hlijev" came from a Serbo-Croatian page, so it should be written "Chlijev" elsewhere, so I transcribed it incorrectly. This is really good catch.
Fixed. The new version of the name is:
b_gacko
I'm keeping it as "Małe Goty". This has intentionaly different declension.
b_nevesinje
Hmm... What about "Dziewięćsile" then? I also named it "Devěcíl" in Czech, but this should have that "-e" termination in Polish.
b_mockern, b_mokro
I'm willing to change this name, but preferably to something else. "Morsko" sounds like it derives from "Morze", which is wrong, it should derive from "Mokry".
What about taking it from the Bohemian languages as "Mokrzyniec"? (By the way, in Czech, "Mokřinec" literally means "Bog".)