Freeman: Guerrilla Warfare

Freeman: Guerrilla Warfare

Overhaul FGW
Jason Yang  [developer] Sep 15, 2020 @ 4:41am
按照现实来说 武器精确度应该是多少合适? In reality, how accurate the weapon should be?
The weapon data file locates in Freeman Guerrilla Warfare\Freeman Guerrilla Warfare\Freeman Guerrilla Warfare_Data\StreamingAssets\Overhaul FGW\Table\Weapon.json. Spread and inaccuracy will affect accuracy, but if you have full marksmanship and firearms, inaccuracy will be 0. And be adviced that this change will work for both player and ai. People have shooting experience are welcomed to answer this question.

武器数据文件在Freeman Guerrilla Warfare\Freeman Guerrilla Warfare\Freeman Guerrilla Warfare_Data\StreamingAssets\Overhaul FGW\Table\Weapon.json。Spread和Inaccuracy会影响精度,但是如果枪法和熟练度是满的,inaccuracy就会变为0。注意这个改动对玩家和ai都有效。欢迎拥有射击经验的人回答这个问题。
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Showing 1-13 of 13 comments
Slick Willy Sep 15, 2020 @ 11:43am 
Hum I see, this is actually quite what I was hoping for in terms of gameplay progression, however I do recall my last session with the game using this mod I had a marksmanship skill of 12 and my points in weapon handling was 60 for assault rifle. I was using the Ak at the time as well, but one of the very first engagements I went into was nearly impossible to hit anything past 50 yards. I suppose in relation to size in FGW it doesn't seem unreasonable to make weapons they way they currently are, but equally I feel if I have 12 out of 15 marksmanship I should be able to hit some shots at a reasonably far distance but again that's not the case. I like what you've accomplished with the mod you've done a great job other than this minor thing, but for myself it deters me from wanting to use the mod.
Last edited by Slick Willy; Sep 15, 2020 @ 12:03pm
Slick Willy Sep 15, 2020 @ 12:01pm 
Ok, but now to answer you topic of question. Well realistic engagement distance is unlikely to be accurate in FGW, as the maps are small, and the mass amount of hills makes it difficult to really hit much past a few hundred yards regardless of weapon accurately I'm speaking only in terms of line of sight. You can hit ai in the game at the furthest, around 200 meters. Which is very close for real world engagement distance. Especially in Afghanistan things could be nearly a thousand meters out or more and you'd still receive semi accurate fire. Keep in mind this is ak's we're talking about, rusty old Kalashnikov's. So yes I'd certainly say most weapons that are capable of shooting some lead would at the very least be accurate of 300 meters. That being said that would be for modern day rifles, this would include all Ak platforms Ar, M4, M16 so on. Not for pistols, unless you're skilled, accurate fire past 50 meters will be very difficult.
Last edited by Slick Willy; Sep 15, 2020 @ 12:03pm
Jason Yang  [developer] Sep 15, 2020 @ 12:49pm 
Originally posted by Slick Willy:
Ok, but now to answer you topic of question. Well realistic engagement distance is unlikely to be accurate in FGW, as the maps are small, and the mass amount of hills makes it difficult to really hit much past a few hundred yards regardless of weapon accurately I'm speaking only in terms of line of sight. You can hit ai in the game at the furthest, around 200 meters. Which is very close for real world engagement distance. Especially in Afghanistan things could be nearly a thousand meters out or more and you'd still receive semi accurate fire. Keep in mind this is ak's we're talking about, rusty old Kalashnikov's. So yes I'd certainly say most weapons that are capable of shooting some lead would at the very least be accurate of 300 meters. That being said that would be for modern day rifles, this would include all Ak platforms Ar, M4, M16 so on. Not for pistols, unless you're skilled, accurate fire past 50 meters will be very difficult.
@Slick Willy So basically weapons can hit the target about 200 meters, than means generally accuracy should increase at least 4 times from the current value.
And another questions is the value “inaccuracy", how much difference should be between full shooting skills and zero shooting skills(we can assume the spread is 1)?
andy3519 Sep 24, 2020 @ 5:16pm 
完全没有射击经验的人,姑且理解为被传授了基础步枪射击术理论(Basic Rifle Marksmanship),使用AK平台经过100发适应性训练吧,基本上可以用机瞄有效射击25-200m的胸靶大小目标。但是实战与现实的最大不同就是对方不会露个胸靶大小的静止目标给你,以及考虑未知与交火造成的压力对人的影响。
最终结果就是没有射击经验的人(条件预设同上,接触过基本理论和100发适应性静止目标训练),在实战中使用抵肩武器射击25-50m的活跃敌方目标(跑动,躲藏,还击)时,要么命中率相当低(15%最多),要么效率相当低(指花费在形成合理瞄准图像,后座管理,扳机控制上的时间)。前提是他真的敢头铁用标准的瞄准方式
当然如果是一群人的话,效率会高一些(大概提升到40%),伏击的话能进一步提升到60%左右。距离一旦拉到100m,那没有射击经验的人就很糟糕了。而有射击经验且有战术背景的人员会好很多。
(同样也取决于武器平台以及所使用的配件,直接影响索敌和高效准确接敌
andy3519 Sep 24, 2020 @ 5:23pm 
预设在25-50m是因为没有射击经验(预设同上)的人在50m以上距离的交火中(而非单方面伏击或狙击)与有射击经验和战术背景(同样强调战术背景)的人会拉开巨大的鸿沟。

主要来自对武器系统熟练度、战斗射击技术(各种预设的目标条件,压力背景)和战术背景下部署武器系统效率(比如依托掩体稳定武器的速度和效率,移动到合适的射击角度等等)的差异,以及对索敌效率和压力管理(在被直接火力影响的情况下仍使用有效瞄准方式和合适的射击速度与敌人接触)的能力。
andy3519 Sep 24, 2020 @ 5:35pm 
对于没有经验的人在25-50m处取得40-60%的命中率的前提条件是建立在对方没有对那个交火中的个体施加有效影响的前提之下的。
如果对方开始施加有效影响,取决于武器系统和个体差异,在群体或伏击的前提下,最多只能取得10%的有效命中。
那怎么理解满射击经验的人呢?这种人首先不是单纯的竞技射手或奥林匹克运动员,而是一支合格的SOF单位里的狙击手,或者再缩小一些范围,三角洲里的“高级突击手”(对狙击侦查分队队员的戏称)。
他们的能力就是在5-500m的交火距离内(不论对方在高处还是低处,不论任务气象条件如何,只要不是很离谱)使用合适的武器系统(这回是AR平台),有效的与一切目标进行交火,同时保持对移动目标,大面积暴露在外的目标保持高达80%的命中率。在被施加影响时(并不是有效火力影响,有效火力意味着如果不隐蔽,就有极大可能被杀伤,哪怕是跑动),也能保持相当高的命中率,大致在70%以上。
当然实际上的交火会更为复杂,但是简化成参数的话基本上就是这样了。
andy3519 Sep 24, 2020 @ 5:38pm 
当然了战场不是打靶,并不要求看到敌人才射击。即使是顶尖的SOF依然要运用步兵战术,依然会通过施加有效火力来进行机动。所以我们讨论的命中率问题只是针对对于有射击窗口的目标进行射击的情况,而忽视进行必要火力压制以支持分队机动脱离或转移的情况。
andy3519 Sep 24, 2020 @ 5:40pm 
简单汇总到游戏内AI的表现,我认为就是在不同距离与交火条件下能保持多高命中率+花费多少索敌与瞄准时间+能保持多快的对敌射速这3个因素。
Jason Yang  [developer] Sep 24, 2020 @ 5:54pm 
Originally posted by andy3519:
完全没有射击经验的人,姑且理解为被传授了基础步枪射击术理论(Basic Rifle Marksmanship),使用AK平台经过100发适应性训练吧,基本上可以用机瞄有效射击25-200m的胸靶大小目标。但是实战与现实的最大不同就是对方不会露个胸靶大小的静止目标给你,以及考虑未知与交火造成的压力对人的影响。
最终结果就是没有射击经验的人(条件预设同上,接触过基本理论和100发适应性静止目标训练),在实战中使用抵肩武器射击25-50m的活跃敌方目标(跑动,躲藏,还击)时,要么命中率相当低(15%最多),要么效率相当低(指花费在形成合理瞄准图像,后座管理,扳机控制上的时间)。前提是他真的敢头铁用标准的瞄准方式
当然如果是一群人的话,效率会高一些(大概提升到40%),伏击的话能进一步提升到60%左右。距离一旦拉到100m,那没有射击经验的人就很糟糕了。而有射击经验且有战术背景的人员会好很多。
(同样也取决于武器平台以及所使用的配件,直接影响索敌和高效准确接敌
我最近计划的是假如满枪法的100m距离上平均两枪可以击中目标 那么零枪法的相同条件平均需要打十发才行 看来应该差不多了
非常谢谢这个答复 很细致了
andy3519 Sep 24, 2020 @ 5:56pm 
SOF们倾向花费必要的瞄准时间来获得高命中率和比较流畅的射速(以及平衡射速与精度),没有射击经验的人会花费大量不必要的瞄准时间,又或者只分配极短的瞄准时间,又或者因为压力而下意识加快射速。不论哪一种,都会导致错失短暂的射击窗口或者压根打不中目标。

当然了,SOF们也同样会因为花费的瞄准时间超过目标出现的窗口而无法射击/击中目标的情况,这在战场上都是很正常的。毕竟一个再有经验的狙击手也没办法在500m距离上有效射击一个从小巷宽度视野跑过的敌军。甚至在缺乏合适平台与条件的情况下也无法用合适的命中率(70%)射击一个500m距离从大街上跑过的敌军
andy3519 Sep 24, 2020 @ 5:58pm 
2枪差不多了√ 能帮到就好 而且那些SOF很喜欢连续流畅的射击6-8发子弹(也是取决于实际射击窗口是否允许),而没有经验的射手要么射速过快(这个就没啥命中率可言了),要么就是打一发看一下,效率低不少
Jason Yang  [developer] Sep 24, 2020 @ 6:03pm 
Originally posted by andy3519:
2枪差不多了√ 能帮到就好 而且那些SOF很喜欢连续流畅的射击6-8发子弹(也是取决于实际射击窗口是否允许),而没有经验的射手要么射速过快(这个就没啥命中率可言了),要么就是打一发看一下,效率低不少
射速我参考了红龙 越精锐的部队射击密度会更大 主要是我发现自由人的ai似乎中远距离射击也不常点射 改射击密度更简单粗暴一些
andy3519 Sep 24, 2020 @ 6:07pm 
射击密度挺好的√ 确实,自由人里的ai基本上很少点射,而且用射击密度其实也算是个更符合实战的衡量因素吧w
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