yeah this is a god-tier mod

Seriously, the fact that they even made something like this possible in the Rim, is AMAZING!

It's true. I'm glad you get that reality.

We mostly just read giant lists of bug reports, so this is a nice change of pace. :)

Mod users and even gamers at large mostly post comments that are somehow "negative" or "critical" where devs can read it (often posting reeeeealy viscous ♥♥♥♥ believing we aren't looking and getting shocked when we reply) and we just never get to read positive or praise comments without seeing it mixed in with something wrong, something that needs more work to finish, or something that's disliked, etc.

And many mod users would say, "yeah, because you need to read this!"

But we will read your comments regardless of the tone. You don't have to be mad.

Part of it is our fault, true. We filter for those crits, looking for useful feedback, but also in my observation people love to complain more than they love to praise. There's likely some evolutionary motivation behind that, warning the tribe about dangerous predators and poison food loudly and sounding off about good food and friends very quietly. That may be off base, but whatever it is driving this behaviour, it makes for reading a litany of what's wrong and never being good enough.

I personally no longer care, because after Fallout: New California my nerves have been totally cauterized by reading Reddit reviews and harsh crits emailed to my inbox by the hundreds for years. Other devs who are new to this reality work so hard on their mods/games, and then in the end, after months or years of strife, we get the rude awakening of just pure indifferent cruelty and snobbery, for something we made believing it would be enjoyed by someone -- and that someone rarely speaks up, but the opposite is a daily reality.

It's like, we saw this thing you made for free. ♥♥♥♥ you. :p Now lets tear it apart and call you a moron until you obey us and continue to pump out what we demanded for free.

How is that supposed to incentivze newcomers to keep practicing and improving their skills?

How is that supposed to make us want to continue after years of this behavior?

Modders and Devs are outnumbered by gamers ~1000000:1 and mod users ~1000:1. A game with ~1,500,000 downloads like RimWorld will end up with 14,353 total mods (at least half of which are modders with 2 or more mods obviously.)

If you go into your job every day, and you then come home from work exhausted, but you have another 4-8 hour shift at home, UNPAID, and all you get for feedback is Karens angry things they don't understand aren't working as they think they should, people telling you how to do your job, and criticism nitpicking details?

Why would you do that job?

Why would you make the next great thing?

Why even try?

By posting this I don't expect anyone to change. You have no idea how many times I've spoken up just to be called a snowflake or thin skinned and should quit if I don't like it. I honestly feel numb to the letters on screen, and feel numb to those who post it.

But I still feel for the new guys. Or the ones who can't cope with it.

I've even warned people to not release a mod or game because this is the reality they will face.

Somewhere in the back of your brain you take on this "the users are the enemy" mindset, which you can deny or try to assuage it, but no matter your outlook or attitude, it's always there just clawing at the back of your brain. You can't help it. After a few dozen incel screeds, harsh teardowns, personality assassinations, pillory / gallows mob threads criticizing your behavior and intelligence as being anti-consumer, death threats personalized as memes, messages in your inbox saying you should kill yourself or threatening your family -- I wish this was an exaggeration but it isn't -- you just start to think of the player base as undisciplined, emotionally immature psychopaths that don't deserve respect or the dignification of a response.

If you're lucky, you begin to think of only your work and making it better. You forget the comment sections exist.

Which is when the great gap between users and devs begins to rapidly widen.

Best case scenario is you become like me and totally numb to it. It makes you bitter and pessimistic, you trust no one, but you still lift your shield and dive in every day looking for useful feedback you can use to identify bugs and problem areas, and take those ♥♥♥♥ covered gems home to wash off and give to your team leads or improve your own work. You celebrate the little victories and keep expectations low. And that's how you live.

Every week, you see a new AAA company get it in the game press or social media. Some of that is justified -- AAA have done some predatory ♥♥♥♥ of late, and that needs a voice crying out against it.

But the mentality of the mobs that rise are always about, they deserve it, lets dehumanize them, they're not listening anyway, so lets unload the worst we possibly can at them and tear them down. WE ARE UNITED SCREEEEEEEE!!

Not knowing, it isn't the CEO or Shareholders of the company reading this (though they will from time to time) it's the 9-12 devs (because we work 14 hour days) who get to read the venom. (Often we're advised never to go online at all, and most don't, we just have no time.) This sends the radically opposite message from "please fix this" and turns it into "♥♥♥♥ you obey or get ♥♥♥♥♥♥."

If you're a mod dev or an indie dev, you get all that same ♥♥♥♥ the AAA gets, but personalized entirely within your inbox, no filter, addressed to you personally. It just spills from the $100,000,000 budget games, to you, who has no one to talk to about..

The kind of people who can code and make game art are RARE.

The kind of people who can take the abuses, are RARE.

You put a vyn diagram of people who can take the heat and people who can make these assets, and the overlap is a fraction of the two.

That excess are the people you are losing, who quit modding, and quit making games, even though they are very good at it. And the people who stay are only those who also happen to be good at taking the heat (or ignore it.)

That isn't a healthy situation, and I shudder to think what we have lost, especially to the 3rd axis of "people who can afford to do this as a hobby" and 4th "people who can afford to make this a career."

That cross section is tiiiiiny.

And we make it smaller by being cruel or simply unthoughtful.

The consequences of this are a major brain drain on the industry, and the survivors are bitter, secretive, insular, borderline delusionally upbeat, and authoritarian concerning any contradiction.

Now you can go look at the news. Now you see the story making sense. That's why the culture is the way it is, and there's not much I see making it any better.

Except comments like this one. Those are the lights of respect in the tunnel of indignity we look for to get us through today.

Thanks.

I get lost when i try to wrote big texte,sorry for my inconherance if it happen, damn adb -.-
and again, dont judge my english :P

wow, so you basicly made a mod, dlc sized huge as fallout california.. and poeple still managed to be... ungratfull? i mean that impressive stuff you made, you and your team. i really mean it.

strange, when i wrote that, your whole texte hitted me as a simple though.
you dont get paid,so you are sort off a voluntary worker, right?

and...aint the voluntary worker are praised when they help the eldery, disabled person, poor and homeless... or who ever in need? well, you voluntered to make a game better, for the poeple around the world.. that is worth alot, and these peice of art you modder create, however small are buggy they can be, as been shared whit the though ''hey! could be usefull to someone, why not sharing it?'' or
''il make something that will make poeple smile, something big! for them''
is basicly a gift from you guys.

this is sad that this is hard to understand, as your work dosent seem to be understood at all.
even i, as a user i got less than basic knowledge for coding, and i forsee that, if AAA game can deliver, sometime buggy, imperfect game whit billions of money on the table, and not just for the money grab.. i mean, the perfect game would be created,and even a long time ago..
Well...no. it no simple.

Coding is hard. Painfully hard.
so when a modder that do it voluntary, for free,whit most of the time whit no money on the table like AAA game, for everyone, and something getting better result than the aaa
getting bashed for the innacuracy of is long hours of work...
it make me feel mad again these poeple, of how stupid and how damaging they are
ironic cause it might not be their fault, as i said they dont understand your work, but still.

i would end on this even if i would have alot more to say on the subject,
everything you've said, well.. i can confirm
Us user are dumb ass x')

But for what it worth, i really do hope what you wrote would reach out, somewhere else bigger than here, cause it the reality that deserver to be heard.
you guys deserve to be praised for your work, and not insulted for it. i wish poeple could understand that a thank you is the least that you can do when you take a gift from a person. especially when you dont know him!

so on this, Thank again for your Awesome work! you added so many replay value to what i though was a finished game, in even better!

dont forget that, currently on nexus mod there is around 62k modder, 11m enregistered user and 1.5b of download.And when you compare the number, all those complain are WAY lower than the poeple who enjoy it, quietly.
it just that the complainer are way louder than the one liking it. thing shouldnt be like that. but is it :/
So yes, odd are that you are making poeple happy whit this (the number dont lie)
i am gratefull for this, and probably all those who used it, quietly, who sometime just dont know how or where to say that they are
(and this worth for all the modder out there! :) )

Originally posted by Thaiauxn:

It's true. I'm glad you get that reality.

We mostly just read giant lists of bug reports, so this is a nice change of pace. :)

Mod users and even gamers at large mostly post comments that are somehow "negative" or "critical" where devs can read it (often posting reeeeealy viscous ♥♥♥♥ believing we aren't looking and getting shocked when we reply) and we just never get to read positive or praise comments without seeing it mixed in with something wrong, something that needs more work to finish, or something that's disliked, etc.

And many mod users would say, "yeah, because you need to read this!"

But we will read your comments regardless of the tone. You don't have to be mad.

Part of it is our fault, true. We filter for those crits, looking for useful feedback, but also in my observation people love to complain more than they love to praise. There's likely some evolutionary motivation behind that, warning the tribe about dangerous predators and poison food loudly and sounding off about good food and friends very quietly. That may be off base, but whatever it is driving this behaviour, it makes for reading a litany of what's wrong and never being good enough.

I personally no longer care, because after Fallout: New California my nerves have been totally cauterized by reading Reddit reviews and harsh crits emailed to my inbox by the hundreds for years. Other devs who are new to this reality work so hard on their mods/games, and then in the end, after months or years of strife, we get the rude awakening of just pure indifferent cruelty and snobbery, for something we made believing it would be enjoyed by someone -- and that someone rarely speaks up, but the opposite is a daily reality.

It's like, we saw this thing you made for free. ♥♥♥♥ you. :p Now lets tear it apart and call you a moron until you obey us and continue to pump out what we demanded for free.

How is that supposed to incentivze newcomers to keep practicing and improving their skills?

How is that supposed to make us want to continue after years of this behavior?

Modders and Devs are outnumbered by gamers ~1000000:1 and mod users ~1000:1. A game with ~1,500,000 downloads like RimWorld will end up with 14,353 total mods (at least half of which are modders with 2 or more mods obviously.)

If you go into your job every day, and you then come home from work exhausted, but you have another 4-8 hour shift at home, UNPAID, and all you get for feedback is Karens angry things they don't understand aren't working as they think they should, people telling you how to do your job, and criticism nitpicking details?

Why would you do that job?

Why would you make the next great thing?

Why even try?

By posting this I don't expect anyone to change. You have no idea how many times I've spoken up just to be called a snowflake or thin skinned and should quit if I don't like it. I honestly feel numb to the letters on screen, and feel numb to those who post it.

But I still feel for the new guys. Or the ones who can't cope with it.

I've even warned people to not release a mod or game because this is the reality they will face.

Somewhere in the back of your brain you take on this "the users are the enemy" mindset, which you can deny or try to assuage it, but no matter your outlook or attitude, it's always there just clawing at the back of your brain. You can't help it. After a few dozen incel screeds, harsh teardowns, personality assassinations, pillory / gallows mob threads criticizing your behavior and intelligence as being anti-consumer, death threats personalized as memes, messages in your inbox saying you should kill yourself or threatening your family -- I wish this was an exaggeration but it isn't -- you just start to think of the player base as undisciplined, emotionally immature psychopaths that don't deserve respect or the dignification of a response.

If you're lucky, you begin to think of only your work and making it better. You forget the comment sections exist.

Which is when the great gap between users and devs begins to rapidly widen.

Best case scenario is you become like me and totally numb to it. It makes you bitter and pessimistic, you trust no one, but you still lift your shield and dive in every day looking for useful feedback you can use to identify bugs and problem areas, and take those ♥♥♥♥ covered gems home to wash off and give to your team leads or improve your own work. You celebrate the little victories and keep expectations low. And that's how you live.

Every week, you see a new AAA company get it in the game press or social media. Some of that is justified -- AAA have done some predatory ♥♥♥♥ of late, and that needs a voice crying out against it.

But the mentality of the mobs that rise are always about, they deserve it, lets dehumanize them, they're not listening anyway, so lets unload the worst we possibly can at them and tear them down. WE ARE UNITED SCREEEEEEEE!!

Not knowing, it isn't the CEO or Shareholders of the company reading this (though they will from time to time) it's the 9-12 devs (because we work 14 hour days) who get to read the venom. (Often we're advised never to go online at all, and most don't, we just have no time.) This sends the radically opposite message from "please fix this" and turns it into "♥♥♥♥ you obey or get ♥♥♥♥♥♥."

If you're a mod dev or an indie dev, you get all that same ♥♥♥♥ the AAA gets, but personalized entirely within your inbox, no filter, addressed to you personally. It just spills from the $100,000,000 budget games, to you, who has no one to talk to about..

The kind of people who can code and make game art are RARE.

The kind of people who can take the abuses, are RARE.

You put a vyn diagram of people who can take the heat and people who can make these assets, and the overlap is a fraction of the two.

That excess are the people you are losing, who quit modding, and quit making games, even though they are very good at it. And the people who stay are only those who also happen to be good at taking the heat (or ignore it.)

That isn't a healthy situation, and I shudder to think what we have lost, especially to the 3rd axis of "people who can afford to do this as a hobby" and 4th "people who can afford to make this a career."

That cross section is tiiiiiny.

And we make it smaller by being cruel or simply unthoughtful.

The consequences of this are a major brain drain on the industry, and the survivors are bitter, secretive, insular, borderline delusionally upbeat, and authoritarian concerning any contradiction.

Now you can go look at the news. Now you see the story making sense. That's why the culture is the way it is, and there's not much I see making it any better.

Except comments like this one. Those are the lights of respect in the tunnel of indignity we look for to get us through today.

Thanks.

____________________________________

As you've mentioned, most players only turn to modders when they encounter bugs, with "negative" tones, while most people enjoying this mod remain silent.

Leave alone the fact that some giant baby cries for what they want with abuse and threat, our current "player-modder" interaction really lacks some "positive feedback mechanism" for the modder.

What if there's a [ motivation ] for players, to show their gratitude just like @We SaW GoD DiE?

Personally I think there could be a platform for SOS2 players to show there own ship/station with others. Players construct their dream ship with great enthusiasm, they will have a sense of achievement when showing their masterwork with others (one of the reasons multi-player support is eagerly wanted by some).

It could be an image sharing website or something. You can add the URL in the mod intro and say "Show your ship here!". On such a platform there will be "hey look at what I've built! It's the best mod I've played", or "That's no moon! that's my space station! Thank you modder for this great work!" And the players who enjoy this mod will be no longer silent (to some extent)

btw, I have noticed your foreshow video about the upcoming release, the supercool ship battle is amazing! Considering what I've suggested, it comes to me that, will it be possible to allow players to upload their ship, just like Real Ruins, to act as other player's enemy ship? I'm not an expert in programming and I don't know the feasibility. Only a suggestion, not a demand XD.

And, thank you very much for all the hard work that makes this mod a legend!

We've been looking into a tool for users building their own ships and adding them to mods of their own, so modders can build a fleet of xml ship layouts and restrict the spawning of items and pawns to their mod's faction defs.

Ideally it would work similarly to Blueprints and save an XML file that can be added to the ShipDefs folder and referenced in their scripts. Making regions for spawning items, weapons, pawns, etc would need to be unique objects placed by the player while making the ship in dev mode, and when they're done just highlight the ship and save it out.

It might be outside our scope, however, and not be easily achievable. It'd need a lot of difficult scripting, and couldn't be made until the mod unequivocally is done and won't break this system in future updates. It'd be easier if we could use Unity instead of Harmony, but that's out of the question.

This mod is groundbreaking. I mean, the utter chaos of Rimworld in general is just breathtaking, I had a Hospitality mod guest go on a go-juice binge (of course available in my lovely gift shop) and have to spend a week in my Hospital after becoming incapacitated due to withdrawal. Yay, faction boost when he left the map! But now, with this, it's just a whole new level of insanity! Interstellar domination of the Rim is possible thanks to you guys. Thank you, wholeheartedly.

Wait until you vaporize that spacer colony from orbit with your giant death star spinal laser. >:D

Far too many mod users have the Abrasive trait and far too few have the Kind trait. Thanks for making this mod!

It's true.

And now that it's gotten out that people enjoy the mod, brace yourselves for the inevitable belligerence clique, my least favourite human behavior, were collective opposition to the thing you like becomes a stratified social group defined solely by not liking the thing you like for ever increasingly pedantic reasons.