[PVP] Strong Weapons

Some of the strongest and most common weapons you'll encounter in duels.

General Information

First and foremost, this guide's goal isn't to tell people what weapons to use. It will only list weapons that good players have been consistently succesful with. These are some of the strongest weapons available and if you want to compete with good players, you will need to know what makes them strong and why said good players use them when playing competitively.

- Some weapons that are extremely strong in random invasions, humanity fights or high SL (SL200 for instance) will not be mentioned in this guide; instead, it will focus on SL125 no-heal duel meta.

- All weapons that can be upgraded to crystal are considered crystal by default, as it is the most common upgrade path at high level play, including in tournaments.

- Weapon buffs won't be accounted for as they are rarely used in meta duels. They are indeed fairly easy to kite until they fade off, making the stat investment for buffs partly or completely useless.

- All meta builds should remain above or around 50 Vitality.

- Almost all meta builds that include a weapon scaling with Dexterity should use 45 Dexterity, despite Dexterity's 40 points damage scaling hardcap. That is because 45 Dexterity is the fastest casting speed for Pyromancy spells, allowing Great Combustion and Black Flame to, among other things, get a garanteed hit after a kick.

- If you don't know what a certain word or expression means, check the vocabulary section at the bottom of the guide. If you cannot find it there, feel free to ask in the comments and I'll do my best to explain it.

- If you have complex questions or critics regarding topics discussed in the guide, feel free to add me on steam to address them to me.

- If you want build suggestions for certain weapons, feel free to add me on steam and ask.

- If you want to know about some Of these weapon's Poise Damage, here is the link for you: http://darksouls.wikidot.com/poise

- If you want precise framedata on weapons speed in general, here is the link for you: https://u.pomf.is/nezavr.txt (thanks kcufsihttihs for his research)

- If you want optimized armor setups to go along with these weapons, check this guide: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=797747166

Claymore

Pros:

• High on-hit damage
  
• High backstab damage
  
• High poise damage

Cons:

• Slow recovery

Description:

The Claymore's neutral R1 has a fast startup, deals good poise and physical damage, but has a very slow recovery, making this weapon a high risk high reward weapon that relies on punishing mistakes consistently, reading your opponent to get a lot of damage in and capitalizing on Poise pressure, whilst being vulnerable to whiff punishes.
Its safest option is its long range rolling R1, hard to punish when not predicted.

Build example: http://mmdks.com/8fjy

Moonlight Greatsword

Pros:

• Stat efficient
  
• High poise damage
  
• Unique R2 attack

Cons:

• Slow recovery

Description:

A greatsword that shares some of the pros and cons of the Claymore, fast neutral R1 startup, slow recovery.
On the other hand, the Moonlight Greatsword has more range, and thus can outspace weapons the Claymore cannot, and has access to a powerful R2 attack that can be pretty deadly in certain situations due to its long lingering hitbox (cornered opponent, mid-roll opponents waking up from a backstab, etc.), and its ability to knock down players, leading to an almost guaranteed backstab.
Because this weapon requiers high intelligence, a Moonlight Greatsword build will not have access to the arsenal of weapon that the Claymore has, relying on Moonlight Butterfly Horn, Demon's Spear and 13 Dex Quelaag's Fury Sword for counterpicks and support.
It is also vulnerable to builds that have access to the Crest Shield aswell as armor swap, Magic Defense being easier to come by than Physical Defense on light armor setups.

Build example: http://mmdks.com/8gah

Halberd

Pros:

• Long range
  
• Quick recovery if the weapon connects
  
• High on-hit damage
  
• High backstab damage
  
• Possible infinite stunlock on poise break

Cons:

• Slow recovery on missed attack
  
• Low Poise damage for its speed

Description:

A defensive weapon that can, like the Estoc, dictate the pace of a match by forcing opponents to strafe and challenge them for backstabs, but that cannot rely on shield pokes to do so.
Its damage and fast recovery on succesful neutral R1s make it a fine trading weapon, though the Halberd will mostly rely on Black Flame or Great Combustion to get poise breaks.

Build example: http://mmdks.com/8fl6

Great Scythe

Pros:

• High on-hit damage
  
• High backstab damage
  
• Quick recovery if the weapon connects
  
• Stat efficient
  
• Builds up Bleed

Cons:

• Neutral R1 is almost unusable
  
• Slow recovery on missed attack

Description:

A unique weapon compared to the other ones on this list due to the fact that its neutral R1 is almost never used because of how slow and punishable it is, resulting in the user having to rely on Pyromancy (Great Combustion, Black Flame) as a neutral option.
Its sprint R1 comes out very fast and has almost instant recovery if it connects, and thus is hard to punish any other way than poise backstabs, making the Great Scythe strong when matched up against weapons with low backstab damage, because the sprint attack will do as much or more damage than the opponent's backstab.
For the same reason, the Great Scythe struggles against high backstab damage weapons.
Its rolling attack has almost instant Startup, and is also extremely hard to punish when not predicted.
Bleed buildup offers some pressure but should never be the main goal of the Great Scythe user.

Build example: http://mmdks.com/8gaf

Silver Knight Spear

Pros:

• Long range
  
• Quick recovery
  
• Kick into neutral R1 is guaranteed
  
• Pokes from behind a shield
  
• Stat efficient

Cons:

• Poor scaling
  
• Low backstab damage

Description:

With its long range R1s and its fast recovery, the Silver Knight Spear is a weapon designed for kiting.
It falls off at close range, forcing the user to try to gain distance by either rolling away or kicking. Often used as a counterpick rather than a main weapon, but it still is a solid option with Dark Wood Grain Ring.

Build example: http://mmdks.com/8fjw

Pike

Pros:

• Long range
  
• Kick into neutral R1 is guaranteed
  
• Pokes from behind a shield

Cons:

• Big stat investment

Description:

The Pike has good on-hit damage for a spear, but suffers from a slower recovery than its counterparts, and thus is easier to punish.
It is (along with Dragonslayer Spear) the heaviest spear and it demands a big Strength investment, making it more suitable for Havel's Ring + Ring of Favor and Protection or mid-roll builds, relying on getting poise breaks with Pyromancy and kicks to get damage in, rather than kiting like other spears tend to do.

Build examples: http://mmdks.com/8gap - http://mmdks.com/8fk2

Gold Tracer

Pros:

• Builds up bleed
  
• Very quick recovery
  
• Very stat efficient

Cons:

• Short range
  
• Not able to kick
  
• Low backstab damage

Description:

With its incredible speed, the Gold Tracer can build up Bleed, break poise, and put an immense amount of pressure extremely quickly. It can also capitalize on that pressure and catch rolls,
whilst being hard to poise backstab, being a curved sword.
Very deadly at close range, it is also the shortest weapon on this list, making it fairly easy to kite. For that reason, it is often used along with another weapon that complements this weakness (eg. Halberd, Spears, etc.).

Build examples: http://mmdks.com/8fk1 - http://mmdks.com/8gar

Quelaag's Fury Sword

Pros:

• Easy roll catches
  
• Fairly easy ghost strikes
  
• Very stat efficient

Cons:

• Not able to kick
  
• Low backstab damage
  
• Split damage

Description:

The roll-catch queen.
Often used as a finisher, even with the minimum amount of Dex (13) due to its scaling with humanity, Quelaag's Fury Sword is also a fine "core" weapon, because of its surprizingly long range and decent speed, along with its stat efficiency, allowing the user to invest a lot of stats in tankiness.
Bare in mind that its Dexterity scaling is fairly poor, and whilst still being faster than most weapons, it is slower than other curved swords like the Gold Tracer.

Build example: http://mmdks.com/8fk0

Balder Side Sword

Pros:

• Stat efficient
  
• Versatile moveset
  
• Quick recovery

Cons:

• Low backstab damage

Description:

A unique weapon because of its very complete moveset, mostly used to go in-and-out with Dark Wood Grain Ring and punish whiffs with its quick neutral R1s and two-handed rolling R1s.
Its one-handed neutral R1 is fast and wide enough to cancel backstab attempts fairly reliably, but does not do enough damage for trading.
While its R2 attack might look like a good spacing tool, it comes with a huge step forward that reduces the distance between the user and his/her opponent; instead, the R2 will be mostly used to trade, as it does very high damage for such a light weapon.

Build example: http://mmdks.com/8fl5

Estoc

Pros:

• Fast pokes from behind a shield
  
• High backstab damage
  
• Stat efficient

Cons:

• Not able to kick

Description:

A very passive and reactive weapon that relies on forcing opponent's mistakes and punishing them, either by poking from behind a shield, thus inflicting damage for free, or by backstabbing the opponent thanks to the estoc acceptable critical damage.
Its low R1 damage make the Estoc a bad weapon for trading hits, and the user should rely on complementary weapons (eg. Gold Tracer, Black Flame, Great Combustion) in order not to lose
certain matchups. The user and his opponent will almost certainly challenge eachother for backstabs; often resulting in the best at the backstab game winning the match.
Due to its low damage and limited options, the Estoc user will often have a hard time coming back when behind.
Lightning Estoc can be used as a finisher to chip through blocks.

Build example: http://mmdks.com/8gar

Murakumo

Pros:

• High on-hit damage
  
• High backstab damage
  
• High poise damage
  
• Fairly quick recovery
  
• Possible infinite stunlock on poisebreak

Cons:

• Huge stat investment
  
• Slow swing startup

Description:

A trade monster that out-damages every weapon in this guide on neutral R1s and backstabs,
allowing it to kill or almost kill any common build with two Hornet Ring backstabs, or 4 to 5 neutral R1s, whilst also stunning most opponents in 2 R1s at most, forcing a toggle escape; this makes punishes from this weapon extremely deadly.
Its surprizingly fast recovery makes it hard to roll backstab.
Because of its slow neutral R1 startup, the Murakumo is mostly used on high poise builds, allowing for comfortable trading.

Build examples: http://mmdks.com/8fk1 - http://mmdks.com/8fka

Chaos Blade

Pros:

• Very quick recovery
  
• Stat efficient
  
• Kick into neutral R1 is guaranteed
  
• Builds up Bleed

Cons:

• User suffers 20 damage when a Chaos Blade hit connects

Description:

A versatile weapon with extremely good speed, recovery and damage ratio.
This allows for a very effective in-and-out playstyle, punishing whiffs or predicting them with neutral R1s and rolling away immediately with Dark Wood Grain Ring.
For the same reasons, the weapon can also be played on high poise builds, looking for favorable trades, either with R1s or by poise backstabbing the opponent, Chaos Blade having decent backstab damage with Hornet Ring.
Bleed buildup offers acceptable pressure but shouldn't be the main goal of the Chaos Blade user.

Build examples: http://mmdks.com/8fjv - http://mmdks.com/8fjx - http://mmdks.com/8fk4

Support Tools

Here are some of the weapons and spells that are great when used to complement some of this guide's listed weapons. Some of them should be included in the core build and be ready to be toggled to, while some other become really handy in specific situations, and should be menu-swapped to.

Pyromancy Flame

A very solid tool that gives access to four notable spells: Great Combustion, Black Flame, Fire Surge and Fire Tempest.
The first two are deadly weapons, with a very fast startup at 45 dexterity that is a garanteed hit after a kick, dealing good damage aswell as having a surprizingly long lingering hitbox that can catch rolls.
Great Combustion deals fire damage aswell as 40 Poise damage.
Black Flame deals split physical and fire damage (overall less than Great Combustion) aswell as 60 Poise damage.
Fire Surge is a fine finisher that is very hard to counter when low health, the only option being to run away from it.
Fire Tempest is extremely powerful against mid-roll builds after a Hornet Backstab, or on a cornered opponent, but it can simply be rolled through with Dark Wood Grain Ring.
The stat requierments for the Pyromancy Flame are also ridiculously low for what it provides, making it a must have for any Dexterity oriented build whilst still being a decent tool for low Dexterity builds.

"Leftover weight" weapons

Generally include the Dagger, the Bandit's Knife and the Rapier.
To be chosen depending on how much Endurance points a build can afford to put in a secondary weapon, should said build need one.
These are usually used solely for backstabbing, and the Bandit's Knife and Rapier deal extremely good backstab damage for their stat requierments.
All three scale with Dexterity, and should be upgraded to Chaos on low Dexterity builds.

Silver Knight Spear & Moonlight Butterfly Horn

Can be menu-swapped to by respectively Dexterity and Intelligence builds when matched against weapons that need to be kited, or as finishers.

Gold Tracer

Complements weapon that are vulnerable to backstabs when available in the core build.
It can also be menu-swapped to and is able to destroy mid-roll builds if a trade is taken properly, as they will have a hard time escaping its stunlock aswell as rolling the bleed when their bleed bar is full.

Shotel

A great tool against turtles, with its R2 having the unique ability to go through shields.
It is fairly slow and easy to poise backstab so be sure to mix up the R2s with the very quick neutral R1s, to either stun someone or cancel a backstab attempt.
Appart from that, it is a fairly mediocre Curved Sword, and for that reason it should be menu-swapped to, and not included in a core build.
It has fairly low stat requierments, and 14 Dexterity builds can use a Lightning Shotel in order to have acceptable damage.

Demon's spear

A low stat-requierments spear that makes a poor core weapon due to its overall low split damage, and should be menu-swapped to when needed.
It becomes deadly against low health opponents precisely because of that split damage that allows it to partially pierce through shields, and is usable by almost any meta build.
It is also fairly hard to punish, being the longest Spear in the game and thus is a great, safe choice when both the user and the opponent are low health.

Quelaag's Fury Sword

A deadly finisher with its easy roll catches and its easy ghost strikes, making shield turtles fairly helpless at low health.
Its split damage also becomes an aset and will partially pierce through shields.
Thanks to its very low stat requierments, it can be used by almost any build, and should be menu-swapped to.

Lightning Estoc

A very safe finisher, generally used with a shield for the shield pokes, but that also has access to a very fast running R1 and a decent neutral R1.
Thanks to its very low stat requierments, it can be used by almost any build, and should be menu-swapped to.

Vocabulary

Neutral R1:

Light attack, usually simply called "R1".

Rolling R1:

Attack performed immediately after rolling by pressing the light attack button.

Sprint R1:

Attack performed while sprinting, by pressing the light attack button. Usually has more poise damage than the neutral and rolling R1s. Also called WDR1 (While-Dashing-R1)

R2:

Heavy attack. Very rarely used by most of the weapons mentioned above.

Whiff:

Missed attack.

Startup:

The time it takes for a weapon to start doing damage after pressing the attack button.

Recovery:

The time it takes for a weapon user to be able to perform other actions after the damage hitbox of the weapon disappears.

Hit "Connects":

When your weapon's damage hitbox colides with an opposing player. Can happen during rolls, inflicting no physical/magic/fire damage but still inflicting poise damage, aswell as allowing the Halberd and Great Scythe to benefit from their quick recovery.

To Kite/Kiting:

To force someone to follow you, usually forced by long-range weapons.

Infinite stunlock:

Refers to weapons that will keep stunning a player opponent when it breaks poise, until the user runs out of Stamina. Can be avoided with toggle-escape.

Stat Efficiency:

A concept based around the stats required by a weapon and its effective speed, recovery, damage, and utility.

Ghost Strike:

Technique allowing any weapon to pierce through shields (do not mistake for Dead Angles); here is a video demonstrating it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VERHJsP_qOM

Toggle Escape:

Technique allowing the user to get out of stun by toggling one of his weapons at the right time; here are some videos about it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EVdvduhI6E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sxTTwxwK0A

[Vamsi Krishna]

@Crame
The Great Club and Mace should also be included in this list . With Havel Mom setup , they've become surprisingly effective in PvP . I haven't played with this build myself , but have faced against quite a lot of them and they're quite formidable to be honest .

[SimianSwing]

Doomkat. This list is not about weapons that are effective in pve, but weapons that are effective in pvp against players that have huge experience, know and use all tech (no matter if people might think its cheesy), and are using minmaxed builds.

[Doomkat]

so the Zweihander is not included? it is amazing against weaker enemies when weilded with one hand, and when weilded with both hands deals massive damage. You also get near the start of the game

[stortz]

missing crystal GC
pros:
- stat efficient
- huge crit damage
- very fast roll r1
cons:
- weights 12
- lacking neutral

[Pulowski]

black knight halberd>halberd LERN TO STRONK WEAP

[N.Wiseman]

You missed sniper crossbow.

[nulle]

ikr? git gud fukin scrub! xD

[XwX furry borne by ice&fire]

every weapon there for dex builds (not the claymore, claymore for quality)

disliked this, no zweihander or str weapons, git gud casul

[Potion Master]

dont forget the zweihander

[voidbasilisk]

wot r u, casul? the chaos twohander is obviously the strongest weapon. the legend never dies.