Yeah, I think I played Amnesia when the game wasn't even on Steam yet) And Toma's route was my favourite too. It was the most fucked up route and I loved it)) So I know very well what was going on there).

It's hard for me to compare Amnesia and Degraman since the games are so different, and most of all, the structure of the narrative is different. In Degraman after each ending you get one more missing puzzle of information and only after reaching all the endings (when all of the puzzles are collected) you see the whole picture. Therefore, you can begin to interpret things that happened at the very beginning of the story and during the route in a completely different way.

As for Vincent, it seems to me that I began to really understand him after Cassel's story.
But it's hard to explain it without spoilers.

As for Cass.... mmm, he's waaaay too hot :D and I like that strong silent type. He also seems a bit robotic and cold, militaristic (he is a weapon, I guess). Reminds me of some kuuderes I encountered before. Vincent is a tsundere, that much is clear. And yeah, seems like a virgin xD and a schoolboy. He would be great (I usually like tsunderes) if he weren't that nasty with the insults. Can't go overboard with that if you're gonna make him a normal love interest. If the romance was supposed to be some masochistic kink, then don't water it down, show the real ugliness. That's my take.

Of course that's just an impression so far, I will reserve the final judgement when I finish all the endings available.

When I say "romanticising" bad, problematic shit, I mean, making light of it, glossing over it, not really going into it. I think you misunderstand me. I don't need all nice characters and wholesome romances. But if you make a jerk, then really go into it and show it in all of its 'glory'. But I guess, that would make people really uncomfortable and ruin the romance. I don't know if you played Amnesia Memories, so I'll try not spoiling it. My favourite route there is the one with the cage . It was so fucked up, like horror vibes. I loved it... until the magical resolution. I loved the bad end though cause it fits much more smoothly with the whole route. I'd say the good end romanticised all the shit that happened, as in it just glossed over it. So, I'm not easily triggered; if anything, bad writing triggers me xD

To answer the PS first... Sexism/misogyny is often either downplayed or deemed more acceptable; that's why I went there... some comparisons make things much clearer.

But to get back to fiction... I don't need a perfect world and perfect characters; I've played a lot of dark, fucked up games (even some sick ones) and I'm generally all for fiction to explore all kinds of dark fantasies from a safe distance (that's one of its appeals). I also like dark, twisted, toxic romances in fiction... when they're supported by great writing, of course. Great writing can sell me anything. I already mentioned, there's a lot of that in yaoi (whole routes and games centered around rape, sex slaves and various degrees of dubious consent). Otome games are in comparison very tame and safe. And this one (so far) strikes me as a typical otome, very predictable, but strangely one that accumulated a lot of bad otome tropes.

"Nobody told her she's only good for babies and kitchen (at least not out loud ;P). What's these guys' excuse?"

His excuse?.. Well...Is being a cranky virgin who behaves like a 12 years old boy because he had like literally zero experience with women can pass for an excuse?)

Btw, I think you would enjoy more the Cassel's route. His character is much less triggering. To keep it short - he's the opposite of Vincent) Always respectful and nice to the mc)

I'm not a big fan of Vincent's jokes and in real life I'm sure I wouldn't date a guy with such a temper (but I still think there's nothing bad in romanticising him... It's a fantasy story after all and Vincent is just a super-defensive guy who has no experience with women and with people in general. Anyway, in comparison with Vincent, Ruy's and Ragnar's jokes seemed pretty innocent to me). The world of degraman isn't perfect and neither are its characters.
They have their flaws and their positive traits, just like all of us... Given the conditions in which they live, they may still behave quite normally.

But I do respect your opinion and it's interesting to me)

p.s. why do we go into politics, white-black relationships e t.c.?)) No insult but I think your comment about racism was very out of place.

*sigh* My point isn't that you can't write and depict nasty shit happening and awful characters behaving like dicks (I do play yaoi ffs )... but don't romanticise it and that's the direction I fear this is going... so far

Ffs, in Hakuoki, Chizuru is surrounded by 19th century samurai men, you know, old school macho men, living together, who rarely socialise with women unless they go to the Red Light District. And yet, I don't remember hearing such bare bones nastiness. Not even from Okita. Yeah, there was a lot of 'we gotta protect you, it's our honor and pledge' chivalry; but come on, those are 19th century samurais. Nobody told her she's only good for babies and kitchen (at least not out loud ;P). What's these guys' excuse?

@annscratch Have you?
Have you heard of an exaggerated outrage?
Cause the 'sarcastic jokes' these guys use (Vincent esp.) are some of the worst, basic, over-the-top misogynistic insults... that that's the only reaction I can give. And you know sarcasm only works if it's based on truth. :/ And frankly, this writing isn't good enough to get away with it, not when it doesn't address any of the nasty shit Vincent says... so far (I'm sure the endings will make everything better in hindsight - this is sarcasm btw). What's more, with Vincent it isn't even clear he doesn't mean it. Yeah I'm sure he's just taking a rise out of her, the "lovable misogynist" that he is, boys will be boys amirite?