[2023 Update] Fastest Method of Moving Bags

An answer to the question "Is throwing bags with transporter really worth it or is walking them one at a time to the end better"?

TLDR

This guide compares the effectiveness of walking bags to the dropoff one at a time vs only making one trip by throwing your bags into piles.

• As a rule of thumb: Divide the number of bags you have to move by the number of players in the game, and multiply that by 1.5. If the number of throws to the loot dropoff is more than that number, then it is better to walk them one at a time instead.
  
• With only one bag, carrying straight to the dropoff is fastest regardless of circumstances.
  
• The more bags you have to move and the closer you are to the dropoff, the more worthwhile throwing is.
  
• Throwing is much less effective without Transporter, and essentially shouldn't be used.

Generally, for heists with lots of concentrated loot like Golden Grin it's faster to throw. For heists where loot is spread out, like Shadow Raid, its faster and more practical to walk. For heists with a really close dropoff, like Cursed Killroom or Diamond Store, its faster to throw. Bank Heist sits on the edge of these two, with some vault and van locations making either strategy more efficient.

Preface

I've made a few assumptions to begin with, these are either to make the math easier or because I was unaware of certain mechanics within the game.

I went back and redid the math with the help of information from the the payday 2 Long Guide so my list of assumptions is significantly smaller now. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=267214370

[UPDATE]: I used Offyerrocker's Speedometer Mod to get more accurate measurements of distance and speed. Because of this I have changed this guide to use meters rather than the ingame unit of dms. This has also shrunk my assumptions to just one. modworkshop.net/mod/31072

Assumptions:

• That it takes about 2.25 seconds to: Turn, Pick up a bag, and Turn back (This is a more realistic estimate. However, the pickup cooldown is technically only 1.2-1.5 seconds, making that the theoretical minimum.)

For additional reading visit: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=404737264
Gren goes into more detail about the viability of bag moving strategies in actual gameplay, where as this is an overview and proof of the game mechanics behind bag moving optimized purely for theoretical speed.

Using HE rounds is also a method of quickly transporting bags but not one that's common or easy to quantify. It's also highly situational and will break stealth. For those reasons, I've chosen not to cover it in this guide.

This guide also neglects to take into account advanced techniques like second wind/inspire and repeatedly catching bags in air so you can run with medium+ loot.

This guide takes the perspective of a solo player. Divide loot bags by the number of players to get results for multiplayer.

Math

When walking with an item you have to: walk with the item to a location, drop it, sprint all the way back, and pick up the next item. However for the final item you only need to walk with it to the exit.
Mathematically, transporting every bag, one at a time, a given distance would look like:

W = Walk Speed
S = Sprint Speed
D = Distance
T = Throw Distance
The number of bags*(W*D+The assumed time it takes to pick up a bag and turn or 2.25)+S*D*(The number of bags-1)
OR
Bags(W*D+2.25)+S*D*(Bags-1)


To throw a bag you have to: turn to the bag, pick it up, turn back, and throw it. Once finished you would have to sprint forward to the position you threw the bags and restart until you reached your destination.
Mathematically, throwing every bag a given distance would look like:

N = Number of throws
(The number of bags*The time it takes to pick up a bag and turn+S*D) all multiplied Distance divided by the Throw Distance
OR
(Bags*2.25+S*D)D/T

https://www.desmos.com/calculator/nn1mxzwhes
Heres a link to the my formula's in desmos if you wan't to investigate it, or use it to calculate the theoritcal time a scenario might take with a certain build.

Results

Now that my formula is set up I can mathematically estimate the time it takes to use both methods.

Next we can use x for our input speed and y for our output in time. Our formulas will also have four inputs which are affected by external conditions, these are: How much faster sprinting is over walking, how far we can throw, the distance we have to travel to the loot dropoff, and the number of bags we have to transport. Each formula therefore gives us a line where the horizontal number relates to movement speed and the vertical number relates to time spent moving. Both of these lines also nearly intersect the origin.



But wait, if the two formulas create lines that nearly intersect the origin, then that means movement speed actually has essentially no effect on whether or not throwing or walking back and forth is faster, only the inputs that I mentioned before! In cleaning up my data and math with this update I've actually disproven a conclusion that I made in the original version of this guide. This also means that whichever line is lower(has a smaller slope) is always the method which will take less time.

With all this established we look at some scenarios. Firstly, with only one bag to transport carrying straight to the exit will always be faster. Next we can make a table of possible scenarios, measuring distance in the number of throws it takes to get to the dropoff. The reason I chose to measure it this way is because it's easier to understand practically and it also cancels out the need to consider throw distance. Therefore we've norrowed our inputs down to three, now we can plug these in and chart the results.

In these graphs, red is the scenarios where walking back and forth is faster and green is the scenarios where throwing is faster.

We can see now that sprint speed has almost no effect. We can also see that at lower bag counts we have to be pretty close to the dropoff to make throwing worthwhile. But at higher bag counts throwing is almost always worthwhile. Heavy weight items like gold reduce the effectiveness of throwing. What one would expect given that it cuts throw distance in half, but only reduces walk speed by 25%. This would likely have an even higher disparity with builds that increase bag movement speed with heavy loot.

I'd like to emphasize however, that not using transporter essentially doubles the number of throws to the dropoff. So a scenario that would be 3 throws with transporter might be 6-7 without it. You would have to test or estimate how many throws away from the exit you are for your own scenario.

To also put some of this data into context. Trying out Bank heist: Cash I ended up with 7 bags of money and 2 bags of gold. Ignoring the gold I have 7 bags that need to reach the exit. The front vault is about 9 transporter throws away from the van, but the back vault is about 5. If I got the back vault spawn it would have been well worth it to throw, but I got the front spawn so carrying back and forth is actually faster.

Deriving a General Rule from the Data.

After charting a few scenarios and creating a line of best fit for the data I found the approximate formula y = 0.6357x where y is the bags and x is the throws.

Rewritten this means that as a rule of thumb: Multiply the number of bags you have to move by 1.5. If the number of throws to the loot dropoff is more than that number, then it is better to walk them one at a time instead.

Further Experimentation

At some point I would like to collect data on the maps of payday themselves. The whole point of this guide to begin with was to answer whether transporter was a valuable skill for bag movement or not. I've laid the ground work by creating a formula but without data on the maps of payday 2 themselves it's difficult to say.

What I'd like to do is actually measure the length of loot throwing scenarios in payday 2 and determine what maps are practical for throwing and what maps aren't. But as it stands this seems like a long and difficult process given that loot amounts, loot spawn points, and loot dropoff points can be random. If anyone knows a good way of testing this or finding this information please let me know.

Specifically the two things I'd like to know for each map:

• The number of throws between the loot spawn point and the loot dropoff.
  
• The amount of loot that a given map provides.

Heist Testing Data

A section for listing data from tests on each map. I'll add more to this section as I test out more maps. It's possible that some data may be wrong due to random variations in map layout and loot count so I will try to make say when a map is close to the threshold.

If you would like to contribute just equip transporter, count how many throws it takes to reach the exit and count how many bags of loot are on the level.

All stealthable missions are done on Death Sentence and all loud heists are done on Overkill. All of these strategies assume solo play.

First World Bank - Untested
Heat Street - Untested
Panic Room - Untested
Green Bridge - Untested
Diamond Heist - Untested
Slaughterhouse - Untested
No Mercy - Untested
Counterfeit - Untested
Undercover - Untested
Four Stores - Untested
Jewelry Store/Ukrainian Job - Throws the bags in the front, walk the bags from the safe. 3 throws:7 bags in front. 5 throws:2 bags in safe.
Resevoir Dogs Heist - Untested
Mallcrasher - Untested
Bank Heist - Untested
Nightclub - Untested
Watchdogs - Untested
Firestarter - Untested
Big Oil - Untested
Framing Frame - Untested
Rats - Untested
Diamond Store - Untested
Safe House Nightmare - Untested
Transport - Untested
Transport: Train Heist - Untested
GO Bank - Untested
Election Day - Untested
Shadow Raid - Untested
The Big Bank - Untested
Hotline Miami - Untested
Art Gallery - Untested
Hoxton Breakout - Untested
White Xmas - Untested
The Diamond - Untested
The Bomb: Dockyard - Untested
The Bomb: Forest - Untested
Cook Off - Untested
Car Shop - Untested
Hoxton Revenge - Untested
Meltdown - Untested
The Alesso Heist - Untested
Golden Grin Casino - Untested
Aftershock - Untested
Lab Rats - Untested
Beneath the Mountain - Untested
Birth of Sky - Untested
Santa's Workshop - Untested
Goat Simulator - Untested
Murky Station - Untested
Boiling Point - Untested
The Biker Heist - Untested
Safe House Raid - Untested
Prison Nightmare - Untested
Stealing Xmas - Untested
Scarface Mansion - Untested
The Yacht Heist - Untested
Brooklyn 10-10 - Untested
Alaskan Deal - Untested
Brooklyn Bank - Untested
Reservoir Dogs Heist - Untested
Cursed Kill Room - Untested
Breakin' Feds - Untested
Henry's Rock - Untested
Shacklethorne Auction - Untested
Hell's Island - Untested
The White House - Untested
Border Crossing - Untested
Border Crystals - Untested
San Martín Bank - Untested
Breakfast in Tijuana - Untested
Buluc's Mansion - Untested
Dragon Heist - Untested
The Ukrainian Prisoner - Untested
Black Cat - Untested
Mountain Master - Untested

[mingebag]

i have a smooth brain

[sockpoo]

this is too much math for my small, i meannnn big brain

[МО|<РОТА]

понял

[Defective Soul]

Or you just can use explosives to launch you bags

[Helix]

It's weird to say that this kind of equation can be used in real life to determine similar jobs alike; E.I. a real heist ahaha

[максим шалунишка]

/

[我给你妈推河里]

7788

[not a toasty spy]

Really good job!

[GLITCHY_RABOOT]

i dont like this guide, there is a lot of math (jk very cool)

[endfox_]

imagine someone caring about this, sooo much. tbh it is rly useful but i think this took a bit of time to do xd