Season Unending: Being Neutral and Fair

This guide is for the Dragonborns who agree with Alfhild Battle-Born that the ongoing war is as stupid as the Battle-Born's feud with Clan Gray Mane. Alas, the road to being a neutral and fair truce negotiator can be tricky, as opposed to favoring either side.

The Season Unending main quest is explained in detail, accommodating a neutral path. The information can still be useful if you decide to pick a side. A mini walkthrough for the War Hero achievement is also included.

Introduction

Why should I be neutral and fair?

For role-playing and immersion purposes. The former is true if you had decided beforehand that your Dragonborn would not choose a side in the civil war, rejecting the ideologies of both sides. As for immersion, in order to be fair you have to pay attention to the in-game dialogue and have some knowledge of the holds.

However, you will not be given a leveled item after the negotiations. Someone in the council will give you a pat on the back as a consolation.

Prelude

The prerequisite for being neutral is to NOT join the Imperials or Stormcloaks prior to the negotiations.

Quick Walkthrough

I've included this section for those of you who want to skip through the reasoning behind the choices.

Immersion

This summarizes the main walkthrough of this guide. The summary carries little weight without referring to the detailed walkthrough.

• Imperials let Elenwen stay
  
• Stormcloaks get Markarth (scripted when neutral)
  
• Imperials get Dawnstar / Winterhold
  
• Stormcloaks don't have to pay for Karthwasten
  
• Imperials get Winterhold / Dawnstar

War Hero

For obtaining the missable War Hero achievement should you choose to join the Imperials / Stormcloaks after Season Unending:

• Elenwen will have to leave
  
• Stormcloaks get Markarth (scripted when neutral)
  
• Imperials get Riften
  
• Stormcloaks pay for Karthwasten

Note that these Immersion and War Hero choices might receive a slightly negative reaction from the NPCs, but the end result will definitely be fair. Also, these are not the only choices that will produce a neutral and fair result. The Negotiation Score walkthrough covers this in detail.

Negotiation Score

The score system is divided into two stages: Phase One and Phase Two

• Score begins at 0. Concluding the negotiations at 0 will deem the Dragonborn fair.
  
• Choices that favor the Imperials adds to the score
  
• Choices that favor the Stormcloaks reduces the score
  
• Phase One score will range between -2 and +1 if the Dragonborn is neutral
  
• Regardless of your Phase One score, you will be able to be fair provided you play your cards right in Phase Two

Immersion Walkthrough

Here is the meat of this guide! There won't be any hand-holding with regards to choosing dialogues.

Do note that you will be unable to pause the game when choosing dialogue options. Furthermore if you take too long to respond or cancel the conversation, a choice will be picked automatically. It is recommended to read this guide beforehand or pause before each round of dialogue options.

Letting Elenwen stay

The tension created by Elenwen's presence is distracting. One of the Dragonborn dialogue choices indicates that her absence will set the tone for the negotiations (it is not necessary for this to be said though).

True enough, if you let Elenwen stay she will mock Ulfric by saying "Ulfric, why so hostile? After all, it's not the Thalmor that's burning your farms and killing your sons". This juicy bit will be important further along the negotiations.

Stormcloaks demand Markarth

Ulfric will initiate the negotiations by demanding that Markarth be given to the Stormcloaks.

It is sensible for Ulfric to make the first demand because the Stormcloaks are at a disadvantage in terms of number of holds controlled. (See 'Holds Explained' *)

Imperials demand something in return

General Tullius will not be pleased with Ulfric's demand, and laments that Markarth is a rich source of silver. This bit of information is actually relevant to the negotiations.

Since Markarth is a major hold, it is natural to assume that giving the Imperials a major hold like Riften to be fair. Eye for an eye, right? Unfortunately Riften doesn't make up for the loss of valuable silver.

Dawnstar on the other hand has mines for quicksilver AND iron. Hence why Dawnstar will be given instead.

Note: You might be given the option to offer Winterhold instead of Dawnstar. If this is the case, Dawnstar will be offered under 'Seal the deal' below. For simplicity's sake, this walkthrough will assume Dawnstar is given first.

Karthwasten Massacre

Now, recapping what has transpired - one MAJOR hold with resources to the Stormcloaks, and one MINOR hold with resources to the Imperials. That said, it is only right for General Tullius to make another demand to even out the negotiations.

He does so by demanding compensation for the Karthwasten Massacre. Earlier when Elenwen mocked Ulfric, she insinuated that the Imperials were the ones burning Stormcloak farms and killing Stormcloak sons.

Suffice to say, if both sides have allegedly committed these crimes, no compensation should be made.

Seal the deal

The Imperials are still at a disadvantage, and the Stormcloaks will have to give up one of their holds to make up for it. At this point they only have two holds left to offer which are Riften and Winterhold. (See 'Holds Explained' **)

In order to reach a conclusion, Winterhold has to be given to the Imperials. Otherwise Riften will tip the scale in favor of the Imperials.

All in all, the Stormcloaks trade two minor holds and resources for one major hold with resources from the Imperials.

War Hero Walkthrough

If you wish to obtain the War Hero achievement after completing Season Unending, take note of the following:

• The Dragonborn is considered neutral during the negotiations
  
  
• Markarth will be given to the Stormcloaks (scripted when neutral)
  
  
• Riften can be given to the Imperials
  
  
• Once negotiations are concluded, the Dragonborn can join the Imperials or Stormcloaks
  
  
• Depending on who governs Riften and the Dragonborn's allegiance, the War Hero achievement can be obtained or missed
  
  
• The achievement is missed if Riften is governed by the Stormcloaks and the Dragonborn joins the Stormcloaks subsequently
  
  
• To avoid missing the achievement entirely, give Riften to the Imperials. By doing so, the Dragonborn can obtain the achievement regardless of which side is joined

 

Achievement breakdown

Either Fort Greenwall or Fort Sungard needs to be captured to unlock the achievement.

• Fort Greenwall is located in The Rift (Riften is the hold capital)
  
  
• Fort Sungard is located in The Reach (Markarth is the hold capital)
  
  
• Prerequisite for capturing the forts: join the Imperials or Stormcloaks, which in turn begins the Civil War questline.
  
  
• If the Dragonborn joins the side that governs both holds, there is no need to capture the forts and the respective Civil War quests ('Battle for Fort Greenwall' & 'Battle for Fort Sungard') will be skipped.

Negotiation Score Walkthrough

The negotiation uses a score system to track whether the Dragonborn's decisions are fair or unfair. The score starts at zero and the aim of this walkthrough is to conclude the negotiations with a zero score.

How is this useful?

Understanding the score system will help the Dragonborn manipulate the negotiations to be fair while deciding which Jarls stay in power and which ones get the boot. I can't think of any other reason to do so. If grasping game mechanics is your cup of tea, read on!

The score system

The score system can have three outcomes:

• Positive score - the Dragonborn favors the Imperials
  
• Zero score - the Dragonborn is fair
  
• Negative score - the Dragonborn favors the Stormcloaks

The score system can be divided into two sections:

• the Dragonborn has sided with the Imperials or is neutral
  
• the Dragonborn has sided with the Stormcloaks

Since this walkthrough is focused on being neutral and fair, only the first section will be covered.

The Dragonborn has sided with the Imperials or is neutral

The above mentioned section can be further divided into two stages: Phase One and Phase Two. Below is a UESP snippet of the two stages and its negotiation options, along with the corresponding score values:

UESP Score Table

 

Phase One

Based on the table above, the minimum and maximum scores for this phase are -2 and +1 respectively. This is inclusive of the Pre-Negotiation score.

Phase Two

In order to conclude the negotiations with a final score of zero, the required choices will depend on your score from Phase One. If your score from the previous phase is:

(Phase One scores are in brackets and the required choices are underlined)

• (-2), you will need to agree to both options.
  
  Disagreeing to the first option will conclude the negotiations with a final score of -2.
  
  
  
• (-1), you will only need to agree to one of the two options.
  
  Disagreeing to both will conclude the negotiations with a final score of -1.
  
  
  
• (0), agreeing to the first option will conclude the negotiations with a final score of +1.
  
  You will need to disagree to the first option and the second option will come into play.
  
  You will then need to agree to the second option. This is the only inconsistency in the score table used for this walkthrough. However, the outcome is correctly reflected by the in-game dialogue.
  
  
  
• (+1), you will only need to agree to one of the two options.
  
  Disagreeing to both will result in a final score of +1.

Notes:
If your Phase One score is (-2) and you disagree with the first option OR your score is (0) and you agree with the first option, the second option will not be offered because it does not make a difference to the score outcome (positive/zero/negative).

If your Phase One score is (-1) or (1), the second option will only be offered if you disagree with the first option.

Holds Explained

Here are some facts compiled from UESP and the Elder Scrolls wiki.

There are nine holds in Skyrim:

• Five of them are major holds. (Solitude, Markarth, Whiterun, Windhelm, Riften)
  
  
• Four of them are minor holds. (Morthal, Falkreath, Dawnstar, Winterhold)
  
  
• Major holds have fortified walls and minor holds don't, and for this reason major holds are worth more in war.
  
  
• Initially five holds will be governed by the Imperials. (3 major and 2 minor holds) *
  
  
• Initially four holds will be governed by the Stormcloaks. (2 major and 2 minor holds) *
  
  
• Imperials are based in Solitude, Stormcloaks are based in Windhelm. Therefore Solitude and Windhelm will never be offered during the negotiation.
  
  
• Whiterun is not available for negotiation because the objective of the negotiation is to prevent the Stormcloaks from attacking / taking over Whiterun.
  
  
• Imperial holds available for negotiation are: Markarth(major), Falkreath, Morthal
  
  
• Stormcloak holds available for negotiation are: Riften(major), Dawnstar, Winterhold **

Recommended Mod

Choosing to be a neutral Dragonborn means you won't have access to a few quest related rewards. Also, you might not want the miscellaneous Imperial / Stormcloak recruitment quests to appear in your journal at all.

In order to access the said rewards and rid of the journal entries, there is a mod called Civil War Neutrality, created by plunket for Skyrim and ported over to Skyrim SE by lethielnyrond.

I searched Bethesda․net for the mod but I didn't see it. Since this guide is on Steam, I will refrain from linking external sites. In any case, I've found the mod to be useful for role-playing and thought I'd share.

Acknowledgements

Thanks for reading my guide! This is my first time writing one and any feedback would be appreciated.

Special thanks goes out to RandomGuy6721 for pointing out that Whiterun isn't a neutral hold. In his own words:

"(Jarl) Balgruuf really isn't neutral, since by definition Skyrim is under Imperial rule at the start, and since Balgruuf has not declared any kind of rebellion he's still a subject of the Empire. All the civil war maps in-game place Whiterun as Imperial too if the city is not conquered by Stormcloaks."

Special thanks to Kasder for pointing out that Season Unending decisions will affect the War Hero achievement. His feedback can be found in the comments section.

Big thanks to Bethesda for such a solid game, and modders for enhancing the Skyrim experience.

Last but not least, thanks to the contributors on UESP and the Elder Scrolls wikis.

UESP: Season Unending[en.uesp.net]
The Elder Scrolls Wiki: Season Unending[elderscrolls.fandom.com]

[Topher]

You are most welcome.

[mastajake]

I just reread the guide and you mention that "This is the only inconsistency in the score table used for this walkthrough. However, the outcome is correctly reflected by the in-game dialogue." So I probably should have just read better. Once again, thanks for the guide!

[Topher]

Heya, mastajake. It's been a while since I wrote this guide. I'll have to take some time to double check. In the meantime, maybe you can save your game before the negotiations and give trial and error a go.

[mastajake]

Don't the recommended actions in the Immersion guide result in a +1, not a 0? +1 for Elywen to stay, -2 for Markarth to Stormcloaks, +1 for Dawnstar to Imperials, +0 for no Stormcloak compensation, +1 for Winterhold to Imperials. I appreciate the guide; I'm just checking to make sure I didn't do anything wrong.

[Topher]

Thanks for the info! I'll see if the guide needs changing when I have the time and motivation. Been too long since I wrote this guide.

[BobbisandLouis]

If we are looking to get douchbags off the throne, however, the jarl of Morthal is probably not the best leader, the jarl of Dawnstar is a jerk, the jarl of Winterhold is full of rage, and the jarl of Markarth is incompetent. However, we must also look at their sucessors. Offering Riften makes no sense from a moralistic perspective, since Maven doesn't need that kind of power (please no). The jarl of Falkreath is incompetent, but his successor is paranoid. Giving the Silverbloods more power in the Reach just seems like a bad idea. The status quo peace (if available) seems like the best option.

[BobbisandLouis]

Here's a few tidbits you missed. There's an iron mine just south of Winterhold. There is also a moonstone mine in the Reach (Soljund's) and a gold mine (forget the name). There is also lucrative farming operations in The Pale. Since Falkreath has a canonically tax paying bandit iron mine, and a sawmill, it might make more sense to offer Falkreath instead. The same can be said about Morthal, with its farms and mines.

[captainsam2k]

Thanks for letting me know, I was worried I might have screwed my chances on getting the achievement

[Topher]

I have not played this game for ages since I wrote this guide, so I can't recall the details. Bottom line, as long as you give the Imperials Riften you won't miss out on the war hero achievement. Can't remember if Elenwen staying or leaving will affect the rest of the negotiations.

[captainsam2k]

So if I keep Elenwen, do I automatically lose the necessary prerequisites in order to get the war hero achievement?
Also, I'm confused, why does Elenwen have to leave? Is it so the stormcloaks will pay for karthwasten? Or is it so the imperials will ask for riften? Or was I just mistaken on that line about her needing to leave?