BioShock Infinite

BioShock Infinite

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Blue Ribbon Champ Challenge Guide (Videos Included)
By Dinerenblanc and 1 collaborators
This is a guide for the 60 blue ribbon challenges that are standing between you and the evasive Blue Ribbon Champ achievement. The guide is essentially finished, but I'll still be updating it based on reader feedback. Please note that this is a work in progress, and that reader tips would be greatly appreciated. Certain videos only address one challenge. These are generally a little more focused, and are reserved for some of the tougher challenges. However, there are also videos that'll encompass the other challenges. These will feature multiple waves. Credit for the videos go to NIZZU, VidGamiacUnlocked (Youtube), and Espen (Youtube). Thanks a lot for letting us share your videos.

IMPORTANT NOTE: Please keep in mind that if you were to complete a challenge and then die, selecting Forfeit and Continue will allow the game to save the challenge.

Featuring my notes: If you'd like to post any of the content from this guide, please give the author and its contributors credit for it. As for the videos, you'll need to contact the uploader of said videos and ask for their permission.

Enjoy!
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The O.P.S. Zeal
- Wave 1 (Soldiers) - Defeat the wave using Sky-Line strikes only: Self-explanatory; just zip around the lines and pick them off using sky-line strikes.

- Wave 2 (Soldiers) - Defeat the wave while only taking shield damage: Self-explanatory. It's probably the easiest to just snipe them & just pick off the enemies who arrive from the sky-lines.

- Wave 3 (Soldiers) - Defeat the wave using only the Sky-Hook attacks and Shotgun: Again, self-explanatory; just use a sky-line strike to kill stranglers. Use the shotgun when dropping into groups of enemies.

- Wave 4 (Soldiers + Volley Gunners) - Defeat the wave using only machine guns or the crank gun: Use a hit & run tactic; hop in from the sky-line, shoot as many as you can with the machine gun & make a quick getaway before you take too much damage.

Video for wave 1-4

- Wave 5 (1 Handyman) - Defeat the wave using only the pistol and hand cannon: (Handyman) Choose a hand cannon & pistol for your loadout. Ride the skyrail whilst shooting him. When he electrocutes the cables, jump off and take a few pot shots. Rinse & repeat.

- Wave 6 (Soldiers + RPG) - Defeat the wave without picking up weapons or looting corpses: Simple. You could finish this with just about any weapon, but be sure to chose those with more ammunition.

- Wave 7 (Soldiers + Snipers + Zealots) - Defeat all enemies using only zoomable weapons while they are zoomed: You can use just about any weapon that have sights, but I would suggest the sniper rifle & the hand cannon. Stun the enemy with shock jockey, zoom, and fire away. This is much easier if you have the "chain aid" upgrade for the vigor.

Video for wave 5-7:

- Wave 8 (Zealots + RPG) - Defeat all enemies using only Tears, Possession Traps, and Return to Sender traps: Call in the tesla coil and lure people nearby it. Be sure to NOT have the overkill gear equipped. Having Return to Sender fully upgraded is extremely convenient here, as you can just stand by the coil and absorb all of their bullets. Be sure not to injure anyone with it however.

- Wave 9 (Soldiers + Handyman) - Defeat all enemies without ever hitting anyone in the head or the heart: There are many routes to completing this challenge. One can stick to vigor kills for the soldiers, or just snipe them in the torso. The handyman should be distracted with crows, and then peppered with the volley gun or rocket launcher.

- Wave 10 (Soldiers + Siren) - Defeat the Siren before she performs a resurrection: Simpler than you may think. Use charge to start off the attack; she'll be right under you in the beginning. Then pepper her with either the hand cannon, hail fire, or volley gun. They should be fully upgraded. When you're out of ammo, spam a fully upgraded Devil's Kiss, and she should be down for the count.

- Wave 11 (Soldiers) - Defeat the wave without using Sky-Lines or Hook-points: Start the wave with your preferred loadout and be on the move. There's no real place to camp, so I would suggest at least one medium ranged weapon, like the hand cannon.

- Wave 12 (2 Zealots + 2 Firemen) - Defeat the wave within 1:15: A fully upgraded hand cannon or carbine comes in handy here. Shock the firemen with your shock jockey, if you're lucky a zealot will be caught as well, and pepper them until they're dead. Remember to shock repeatedly before the stun effect wears off. One zealot should be able to make his way to you, but he can be easily finished off with the same maneuver.

User generated tip: You may also use Undertow to knock everyone off the ledges. RaggaR8

- Wave 13 (FIremen + Handyman) - Defeat the wave using only weapons fired from a Sky-Line or Sky-Line strikes: I would suggest highly accurate weapons like the hand cannon, carbine, or repeater. Explosive weapons also work well. Slow down by holding "s" to shoot, and speed up by holding "w" when you're taking too much damage. Focus on taking out the Firemen first, as they can be a nuisance when you're evading. Treat the Handyman like you usually would, but only do damage to him when you're on the sky-line.

- Wave 14 (Soldiers + Zealots) - Defeat the wave using only Shock Jockey and Headshots: You will need the sniper rifle for this challenge. SImply shock everyone you see, and snipe them with the rifle. Enemies that are closer take priority over others.

- Wave 15 (2 Handymen + 1 Patriot) - Defeat each enemy with a different Vigor type (until you have used all Vigor types): Do not attack the patriot, you will need him. Start off by wearing down one Handyman with conventional weapon damage, and finishing him off with Devil's Kiss. Wear the second Handyman down, and possess the patriot to have it finish him off. Lastly, use the Undertow + Shock Jockey combo to destory the patriot. Easy peasy.
Alternatively, you can take one of the Handyman out with Charge instead of possessing the Patriot.
Duke and Dimwitt Theater
- Wave 1 - (Soldiers + RPG) Defeat all enemies with the Shotgun: Self-explanatory; only use the shotgun to damage the enemy & unequip gears like overkill & burning halo. Be careful when you're up against the rocket equipped heavies, splash damage from shooting their rockets will cause you to fail. Just zip in to their side of the roof, hold down return to sender, and shoot away.

- Wave 2 - (Soldiers + Firemen + Zealots + Patriot) Defeat two enemies with a possessed Patriot: Be sure to pick up a low DPS weapon for levels like this. Take out all the firemen & zealots first. Thin out the soldiers a bit, and wound the remainder. Possess the Patriot to have it finish them off. Constantly repossess the patriot to stop the vigor from wearing off. If you're having trouble with enemy placement, use Undertow to pull them towards the Patriot, and stun them with Crows. If they're placed close enough to the possessed Patriot, he'll melee them to death. This attack is much more reliable.

- Wave 3 - (Firemen) Force 3 Firemen to self-destruct while airborne from Bucking Bronco or Undertow: Stay on the roof. The firemen will all come in from the sky-like one by one. Use buckking bronco on them, and take them down with your weapon of choice. I highly suggest the hand cannon or shotgun for this job. It would also be much easier with a fully upgraded Bucking Bronco.

- Wave 4 - (Soldiers + Volly Gunners) Damage 5 enemies with Vigor traps: Set up some Shock Jockey traps, since they cover the most ground, and lure the enemy into them. Be mindful that you may not pull the enemy into the trap with Undertow.

- Wave 5 - (Soldiers + 2 Snipers) Complete the wave in under 0:45: There are two snipers on the adjacent roofs; one on the left, and the other on the right. Start by sniping those two first. The remaining soldiers will all ride the sky-line towards your starting position. Pick them off with either the sniper rifle, or a hand cannon. A third sniper will show up on the right side of the roof afterwards. FInish him off, and you should be done.

- Wake 6 - (1 Handyman) Defeat the Handyman while he's electrocuting a Sky-Line: Simple enough. Stun the Handyman with either Crows or the secondary power of Undertow, and wear down his health. Hop onto a sky-line & evade until he electrocutes said sky-line. Simply jump off, and finish him with a high DPS weapon.

- Wave 7 - (Solders + RPG + Patriot) Defeat five enemies with Undertow: Stay at your starting position & pull in enemies with Undertow whilst hiding behind cover. Once you have them in your grasp, throw them off with the primary power. Having Undertow fully upgraded is highly recommended. Repeat until you've completed the challenge. Finish off the rest however you may see fit.

- Wave 8 - (Soldiers + Volley Gunners) Defeat 2 enemies with a possessed rocket turret: Take the sky-line to the adjacent roofs in the beginning; it is easier for the airship mounted rocket turret to hit its targets in this area. Lure the enemy off the ship, wound them, and possess the turret. Hold down return to sender and absorb incoming attacks whilst staying in an open area of the roof to expose the soldiers to the incoming rockets. Remember to repossess the turret every now and then.

- Wave 9 - (Soldiers + Zealots + Patriots) Defeat every enemy with a different weapon or Vigor: Bring unique bullet based weapons like the hand cannon & the repeater for this challenge. You may damage the enemy with anything, but you have to finish them off with different vigors or weapons. You should focus on using vigors to kill the heavy hitters and use your conventional weapons for the regular troops. The patriot can be easily defeated with a Undertow + Shock Jockey combo, and the zealots with Charge & Devil's Kiss. Be mindful when you're using Devils Kiss, since you don't want to kill multiple enemies with it. The soldiers drop common weapons, like the machine gun, you can pick those up to finish them off.

- Wave 10 - (Soldiers + Volley Gunners) Complete the wave using only Charge, Return to Sender, and Shotguns: Rather simple challenge. Just make sure that you've fully upgraded these vigors & carry a shotgun. Use Charge to get in, shotgun to do damage, and Return to Sender to absorb ammunition.

- Wave 11 - (Soldiers + 1 Patriot) Defeat the Patriot with a possessed enemy: You'll need a sniper for this challenge. Start off by wearing down the Patriot's health with the sniper rifle. As you're doing this, some soldiers with shotguns will move into your position. Take them out, but leave everyone else alone. After you've worn the Patriot's health down, start possessing the soldiers closest to him. One of them should be able to take him out with ease. You may have to move up to the next ship for a better chance at possessing the person you intended to.

- Wave 12 - (Soldiers + Snipers) Defeat all enemies with Vigor traps: Stick with Return to Sender and Devil's Kiss; use the former for defense as you're maneuvering, and the latter for offense. Alternatively, you could place some Shock Jockey traps and use Undertow to reel them into said traps. This combo should kill them instantly.

- Wave 13 - (Soldiers + Volley Gunners) Defeat 5 enemies with a single Devil's Kiss blast. You pretty much have only one try at this, so make it work. Use Charge to get yourself up to the top of the balcony, Set the Devil's Kiss trap while the enemy is swarmng around you, and you should get the challenge. Alternatively, you can equip the Burning Halo gear and use Charge at ones of the soldiers while they're all still on the roof. The explosion that's exerted by the gear registers as a Devil's Kiss trap.

- Wave 14 - (Soldiers + 1 Handyman) Defeat the Handyman with a Tesla Coil: Defeat all the soldiers first. Afterwards, start wearing the Handyman down. Once he's weak enough, call in the tesla coil that's right next to the gazebo. Do not bother with the coil underneath to gazebo, as it's hard to maneuver around. Run around the coil, and try to keep the coil between you and the Handyman. He'll take a bit of damage every 4-5 seconds. Once he's dead, you're done!

- Wave 15 - (Soldiers + RPG) Complete the wave in under 1:30: Utilized charge to get quickly jump from ship to ship. Do not get caught out in the open for too long. The soldiers are placed in such a way where there's no real place where you could take cover. Remember to use Undertow to push the enemy off into the abyss; do not waste valuable seconds shooting them.
Raven’s Dome
- Wave 1 - (Soldiers) Defeat all enemies with the Sky-Hook melee: Self-explanatory; remove gears that exert any sort of direct damage, and melee everyone. Use Return to Sender for defense; a simple right click will emit a blue rob that'll absorb damage for 5 seconds.

- Wave 2 - (Soldiers) Defeat all enemies with the pistol: Be sure to have a fully upgraded pistol and aim for headshots; not much to it.

- Wave 3 - (Soldiers + Volley Gunners) Defeat all enemies using only the Undertow Vigor: Stay near the edge of the map, lure them in, and push them off with Undertow. For those who won't follow you, reel them in with the secondary power.

- Wave 4 - (Soldiers + RPG + Zealots) Defeat all enemies with Vigor traps: Use Devils Kiss and Shock Jockey traps to defeat the soldiers; most of them will die from one or two hits. Use Return to Sender for defense.

- Wave 5 - (Soldiers + Handyman) Defeat the Handyman before any other enemy: SImple enough; separate yourself from the enemy and reel in the Handyman to a remote location with Undertow and fire away at his heart.

- Wave 6 - (Soldiers + Patriots) Defeat 5 enemies via friendly fire: If Possession is fully upgraded just possess every soldier and wait for them to kill themselves. Don't bother possessing the Patriot.

- Wave 7 - (Soldiers + Snipers + Volley Gunners + Zealot) Defeat the Volley Gunner and the Zealot before damaging any snipers: Use Undertow to reel in anyone who's not a sniper and defeat them. Afterwards, kill the snipers in whichever way you please.

- Wave 8 - (Soldiers + RPG) Defeat all enemies with turrets or environmental hazards: This one is extremely obnoxious, and will take a chunk of time to do. Be warely of friendly fire, and never let them bunch up. If an enemy were to accidently shoot one of their own, you might fail. Start off at the Tesla coil and lure two of the ground troopers into it. It'll kill them eventually. You might attract the attention of others. If they're near the coil, jump on the sky-line and move back and forth around the garden with the coil & the gun turret. Alternate between the coil, gun turret, & mosquito. After 15-20 minutes. they'll eventually wear the enemy down enough for a kill. Remember to deal nothing but environmental damage. You may only use Return to Sender to deflect damage. Good luck.

Alternate method: I was notified by a user named RAG that you may use Undertow to knock them off the building. Please refrain from grabbing enemies with it however.

- Wave 9 - (Soldiers + RPG + Firemen) Defeat all enemies in 60 seconds using Vigors only: Rather easy in comparison to the last challenge: Just stay close to the edge, use Undertow to reel them in and cast them off into the skies. If you're low on salts, using Shock Jockey after reeling them is another viable option.

- Wave 10 - (Soldiers + RPG + Firemen) Take no damage for 30 seconds: Stand still at the beginning and just wait for the challenge to pop up. Nothing more to it. Use the tesla coil to defend yourself afterwards.

- Wave 11 - (Soldiers + RPG + Volley Gunners + Firemen) Defeat all enemies with the Shotgun: You'll have to use hit & run tactics for this one. Friendly fire is fine, but you have no real way of evading anyone aside from running and using cover. There are no sky-lines in this map, so you'll have to make use cover that you could call in from tears. Fire a few shots at the head, ammo conservation is a must, and move. There's extra ammo in the corner of the building on the lowest point of the map.

- Wave 12 - (Soldiers + Firemen) Defeat the wave without picking up weapons or looting corpses: Rather simple. Just defeat the enemy as usual, but don't look their corpses or pikc up weapons. Be sure to select weapons with a decent amount of ammo.

- Wave 13 - (Snipers + Patriots) Defeat all enemies while they are distracted with a Booker decoy tear: If my memory is correct, there are 2 snipers and 2 patriots on this level. Deal with the snipers first. Call in the decoy at the center of the map AFTER you notified them of your presence. Take out the snipers right after they shift their attention to the decoy. One spawn on the roof on the left, and the other on the airship to the right. As for the Patriots, bring their health down and do the same. The Patriot that's located at the far side of the map will not notice the decoy at center. However, there's a decoy located right behind his spawn point (left balcony). Use that to distract him before finishing him off.

- Wave 14 - (Soldiers + RPG) Defeat each enemy with the same weapon-type it wields: Start off with a shotgun and a machinegun, and take care of the soldiers before tackling the heavy armored troops. There's a tear with RPGs to the left of where the teslacoil usually spawns (at the stairs to the garden). Use that to finish off the armored fellows.

- Wave 15 - (Firemen + Handyman) Defeat each enemy with a different weapon: Relatively straightforward challenge. Use Undertow to cast the Fireman into the abyss, and use the two weapons you've brought with you on the Handymen.
Emporia Arcade
- Wave 1 - (Soldiers + Patriots) Defeat an enemy affected by Bucking Bronco with a possessed Motorized Patriot: Kill the first Patriot (one the bridge), and clean up the initial wave of soldiers. A barge will arrive with reinforcements by the second Patriot. The trick is to lure the soldiers towards the Patriot, then possess said Patriot and quickly use Bucking Bronco. The Patriot should melee kill the nearest soldier and you should get the ribbon. Do not rely on having the Patriot use his crank gun. Possession does not last long enough for him to fire a single shot. Remember to use Return to Sender to absorb incoming damage.

- Wave 2 - (Soldiers + RPG) Defeat two enemies who are riding Sky-Lines with traps: Head for the roof and kill the anyone that's not holding a shotgun (these are the guys that follow you down sky-lines). Take them down to low health with a weak weapon. Ride the sky-lines down and wait for troops to get on the ground, Immediately use the sky-lines again to get up to the center part of the highest balcony there is. Charge Devil's Kiss and wait for them to ride skylines to you. Throw your trap at them as they ride towards you. If you're standing in the right area, they should be lined up perfectly for a throw.

Alternatively, you could set traps underneath the bridge, but this would be a little more tedious. Watch the video below if you plan on using this method.

- Wave 3 - (Soldiers + Volley Gunners) Defeat wave with hazards or support brought in through tears: Summon Tesla Coil on the bridge and just stay close to it for enemies to be dead. Using Possession is currently allowed for some reason. So feel free to use it during tight spots. You may pull people towards the coil with Undertow. Bullet damage is also allowed.

- Wave 4 - (Soldiers + RPG) Defeat the wave using a different weapon or Vigor on every enemy: Rather easy challenge. Start with an accurate and high DPS weapon, like the hand cannon or carbine (refrain from choosing a machinegun or shotgun). Pick up the enemies' weapon as you go on, just be sure that you haven't used this dropped gun for a kill already. Remember to use your vigors as well. Refrain from using crowd control vigors when there's a mob.

- Wave 5 - (Handymen) Defeat both Handymen while they are electrocuting a Sky-Line: A repeated challenge. The prior tips apply; wound them with a weapon and finish them off
when they're on the sky-line.

- Wave 6 - (Soldiers + Snipers) Defeat all enemies using only the Shotgun: Self-explanatory; use only a shotgun. Be warely of gears like Shock Jacket and Overkill. Move to the left side of the bridge and call in the hook. Use Return to Sender to deflect incoming fire as you latch onto the hook. Finish off the men on the lower levels and call in the hook that's above the prior one. Once you're up there, finish off the rest of the men.

- Wave 7 - (5 Soldiers & 3 Firemen) Defeat two enemies with the Fireman’s suicide attack: This one's very tricky. You will need to position both the Firemen and soldiers with Undertow. Injure the soldiers a bit with a machine gun, and separate a Fireman from the group with Undertow since his attacks frequently damage his allies. As he's struggling, bring his health down. Speed is important when it comes to this. A fully upgraded sniper rifle can wither their health down faster than a hand cannon. Fire from the hip if you have it in your loadout. After depleting most of his health, the Fireman will initiate a suicide attack. Stay close to the Fireman and gather anyone you can with Undertow. I don't believe that you can grab him after he initiates his suicide attack, so be sure to keep him in front of you and remain close. When he explodes, you should get the achievement. If you didn't purchase a spare life and was killed by the explosion, selecting "Forfeit and continue" will allow you to keep the ribbon.

- Wave 8 - (Soldiers + RPG + 2 Patriots) Defeat the wave with in 1:20: Rather easy one. Use undertow to pull in a couple of people at a time to your starting position and finish them off. Head upwards by hooking onto the airship and then the balcony. Use Undertow again to real in the remaining patriot that's located to the right of your initial spawn point, and finish him off.

- Wave 9 - (Soldiers + RPG + Siren) Defeat the Siren before destroying the zeppelin: Kill as many as you can whilst you're getting on the airship. Once inside, call in the decoy that's located in the middle of the ship before you deal with the Siren. Use charge to get to her quickly and spam your weapon of choice. If she gets away, use charge again. Once your clip empties out, use Devil's Kiss to finish her off. If done correctly, she won't even be able to leave the ship.

- Wave 10 - (Soldiers) Defeat all enemies using only the sniper rifle: Equip a sniper and try to aim for headshots. Your enemies will mostly consist of melee characters, so just be sure to stay on the move. Do not fire wildly; you'll need to conserve your ammo. Be sure to defeat the machine gunners first. They can be an annoyance.

- Wave 11 - (2 Handymen) Defeat all enemies while they are distracted with a Booker decoy tear: Bring the Handymen down to very low health using Crows and shooting their hearts. Make a decoy, wait for them to be distracted, and fire away. As an alternative, you can also wear them down from the sky-line.

- Wave 12 - (Soldiers + Zealots + Patriots) Defeat all Soldiers and Zealots with Bucking Bronco; followed by Charge: Unequip all gears that does direct damage. Take out the patriots with a sniper rifle as you hang around you spawn point; you need not move. As you're firing at the patriots a Zealot or two will show up. Defeat them with the challenge combo. Once the patriots are gone, hop down and do the same to the remaining soldiers.

- Wave 13 - (Soldiers) Defeat each enemy with the same weapon-type it wields: There'll be 2 soldiers with pistols, 2 with hand cannons, some with machine guns, and some with shotguns. Start off with a pistol & either a hand cannon or a shotgun. There's a shotgun, machine gun, & hand cannon on the first ship that shows up. View the video below for an in-depth walkthrough.

Alternate soulution: This could be considered a cheap way to do it, but since half of the challenges are so ridiculously tedious, I wouldn't blame you for doing this. Simply purchase a spare life and die in the beginning. The room that you spawn in is located in a precarious position. The enemy will attempt to jump into your area and fall to their deaths. As long as you remain in the room, they'll continue to do so. Once the enemy counter is low enough, lets say at around 4, you should leave the room. Pick up the machine gun & shotgun on the ship that's closest to your initial spawn, and finish the remaining soldiers.

- Wave 14 - (1 Handyman) Defeat the handyman with a Motorized Patriot tear: Weaken the Handyman and summon the Motorized Patriot to finish him off; simple as that.

- Wave 15 - (Siren) Knock 4 corpses off of Columbia before the Siren can resurrect them:
Currently glitched; will automatically get it at the start of the wave. I assume that you'll have to knock off the bodies before she resurrects them with Undertow.
82 Comments
Howdee Mar 21 @ 12:47pm 
For Duke and Dimwitt wave 13, I'd suggest using shock before charging up to the top as I often get knocked off if I don't stun them. Then place the trap when all around you at your feet.
trespontos Dec 4, 2024 @ 10:13am 
On Raven's Dome Wave 8 Undertow totally works to get the Blue Ribbon! :lunar2019coolpig:
Carp Dec 3, 2024 @ 2:04am 
God, I'm finally done with this achievement. This dls has eaten out the whole brain. The worst decision from the developers. That's for sure. It would be nice to have a checkpoint on every wave. That is, so that you can download the game immediately on any wave. But no. Go through everything all over again in order to get a ribbon on the 15th wave. About bugs, killing your own opponents, suicide, falling into the abyss, I'm generally silent. It was very interesting to play the game on the difficulty of 1999, dls on the difficulty of 1998 and other challenges. But this... my worst gaming experience.
PrimordialGoat May 30, 2023 @ 8:51am 
Ay thanks for the guide man, very useful. Just got the achievement
Maid Dragon Nov 21, 2021 @ 7:10am 
Thank you so much for this! Finally got the achievement.:LIS_star:
Sammy&Sammy Sep 18, 2021 @ 7:42pm 
Thanks a lot for the guide,man!
When i saw that you can't select individual waves i got discouraged but your guide helped me to continue and finally get the damn achievement.
(sorry if i misspelled something ^^')
Wrazy Apr 20, 2021 @ 5:12pm 
Good freaking guide! :swcheer: There are some tips/strats I wish I knew back when I attempted this on the old Xbox days
SotiCoto Dec 4, 2020 @ 11:00am 
After the easy OPS Zeal ones I was hoping the Duke & Dimwitt Theater wouldn't give me too much trouble.
First one failed because I shot a rocket with my shotgun.
Second one failed because the fireman self-destructing and taking down the patriot didn't count as a second kill.
Third one "failed" despite me killing ALL the firemen with bucking bronco and midair shots.
Fourth one "failed" when I beat ALL the enemies with vigor traps... Spent ages whittling down the health of those idiot volley-bastards with shock jockey traps only for the game not to count it.

This is such a pain in the arse like I just can't believe.

Oh yeah... and Wave 10. "Rather simple" my arse. The game won't let me pick up the shotgun, so I try using Return to Sender and suddenly get FAILED for no reason for killing an enemy WITH Return to Sender.
Cerise Jul 30, 2020 @ 10:20pm 
Wave 11 of Emporia Arcade is supreme cancer.
Sevych Jul 20, 2020 @ 3:37am 
Thanks a lot for the tips! Sometimes these ribbons get totally random)