My thoughts on Gundam Double Zeta

[Harbinger of Battle]

Well it took some time and patients but I at last finished Double Zeta. I gotta say, I didn't think the show would frustrate me as much as it did at first, especially the moon moon story arc...ugh, but thanks to some good ol' stick-to-itness the show actually redeemed itself very well before episode 30. Yes it's more lighthearted, even in the second half, than it's two predecessors however I still think it was good show. Judau was a very different character from Amuro or Kamille. He's not all that mopey and seems like someone who could be your friend. Puru annoyed me quite a bit at first but unlike most dumb loli characters she actually became less intolerable and pointless. She even becomes, dare I say...legitimately sympathetic. A loli character that douse NOT want to make you gouge your eyes out in rage? Inconceivable! Roux kind of seemed like the new Emma, though not as good. Haman is as calculating and manipulative as ever and we really get to see how far she's willing to go for her ambitions. She seems to be one of, if not the only, character in the show to be treated with complete dignity. Speaking of which, some the characters were not handled very well. The Bright Noa that I remember from 0079 and Zeta would have ♥♥♥♥♥ slapped Judau and his friends for weeks for what they did to his dignity. And then there was the complete mishandling of Yazan. One of the most cruel and intimidating villains of Zeta was reduced to a comical buffoon. Why Tomino? Why would you do that to Yazan?!?!?! Also, more than a few of the mobile suits are kind of meh, but I really liked the Double Zeta Gundam. It's huge size and arsenal of weapons make it a pretty badass unit. Not to mention, both opening themes are great. The first one may be cheesy but is so damn catchy, just like the opening for 0079. The second one captures the more serious tone of the show very well and is one of my favorite Gundam themes. Overall I liked Double Zeta. Is it as good as 0079 or Zeta? No, but it's by no means bad.

I'd love to hear some feed back from the Gundam fan community. :)

[WackyModder84]

The problem with ZZ is that Char Aznable was originally supposed to be in it, and for the most part, be the main character. But instead, they split him into Two Characters entirely. Judau Ashta and Glemy Toto. Both of Char's Traits are visable on both characters. But the thing is, if you were to take out Glemy and Judau and replace them with Char, a lot of scenes in ZZ; especially the ones involving Haman and The Purus, would have made A THOUSAND TIMES more sense as a result.
Which is why I am hoping to God that after Zeta Gundam Define is done, ZZ will get the same treatment and be REBOOTED with Char in it as originally intended. That would make it so much better.

[Harbinger of Battle]

Originally posted by WackyModder84:

The problem with ZZ is that Char Aznable was originally supposed to be in it, and for the most part, be the main character. But instead, they split him into Two Characters entirely. Judau Ashta and Glemy Toto. Both of Char's Traits are visable on both characters. But the thing is, if you were to take out Glemy and Judau and replace them with Char, a lot of scenes in ZZ; especially the ones involving Haman and The Purus, would have made A THOUSAND TIMES more sense as a result.
Which is why I am hoping to God that after Zeta Gundam Define is done, ZZ will get the same treatment and be REBOOTED with Char in it as originally intended. That would make it so much better.

Wacky, I love you with all my heart and truly value your opinions, but I gotta disagree with you on this one, assuming what you want is Judau and Glemy removed entirely and replaced with Char. I don't think Char would have the best chemistry with the Purus and do you expect me to believe Leina's apparent death would effect Char more than Judau? Though I will grant you he would have better chemistry with Haman. Not to mention having Char in the story would serve to motivate his actions in CCA. Would the story be better with Char? Absolutely, but I would not remove Judau.

[WackyModder84]

You don't think Char would have been the best chemistry for the Purus????
May I remind you of the MULTIPLE scenarios he's been in where he's taken Newtype / Cyber-Newtype Children under his wing to help them evolve their abilities?
Lalah Sune, Quess Paraya, yeah you get the point. Why do you think Char as a lolicon meme surrounding him because of shit like that.
But if I may clarify, I say that A LOT of scenes would make way more sense. Not necessarily ALL of them. But if Char were to replace Glemy and Judau, chances are that Leina wouldn't even be a factor at all, all things considered. But for example, that chemistry between Haman and Judau that seeminly came out of nowhere, you mean to tell me that if Char was not in his place, that wouldn't have made so much more sense? Especially if you've read Char's Deleted Affair AND watched Zeta prior to seeing that happen? C'mon man. lol
I'm not saying Judau should be removed, but I do say that Judau's role in the story would be DRASTICALLY different with Char in the mix. I still think he'd be the pilot of the ZZ Gundam, but Char would still have a drastic role to play. And most importantly: GET BEECHA AWAY FROM THE HYAKU SHIKI. Seriously, who the fuck actually LIKES Beecha? lol

[Harbinger of Battle]

You're full of crap Wacky...(takes the time to actually think about what you said )...You make some good points Wacky. Granted, Judau and Haman seemed to magically have chemistry for little to no reason. At first I thought you said you wanted Judau's role DRASTICALLY reduced and I started thinking "Dude that's what happened to Shinn in Destiny." Now that I've read the post again I see that you say Judau's roll would be drastically DIFFERENT... silly me. And yes, GET BEECHA AWAY FROM THE HYAKU SHIKI!!! Make him pilot that ridiculous multi arm bot that Yazan used and have it break all the time. It's what he actually deserves. With Char in the story he can act as a mentor to Judau and his friends while the mental state of Kamille can serve as a warning to them of what war can do to a person. Now that I've had time to think, yes Char would work quite well with the Purus, though I never considered Lalah a loli.

Now then one thing I feel I must say is that I have yet to see CCA. I am flat out refusing to see it until I can understand with complete clarity just what the hell a newtype really is. I have seen 0079 3 times, Zeta 2 times, Unicorn, F91, Crossbone, Victory and even X. And yet all I can glean from them is that newtypes seem to have a touch of ESP. Is that all or am I missing something?

[WackyModder84]

Originally posted by Harbinger of Battle:

though I never considered Lalah a loli.

Neither do I. I'm just making fun of all the Lolicon Memes surrounding Char when I say that. lol

Originally posted by Harbinger of Battle:

Now then one thing I feel I must say is that I have yet to see CCA. I am flat out refusing to see it until I can understand with complete clarity just what the hell a newtype really is. I have seen 0079 3 times, Zeta 2 times, Unicorn, F91, Crossbone, Victory and even X. And yet all I can glean from them is that newtypes seem to have a touch of ESP. Is that all or am I missing something?

Ok multiple things here.

1.) You SKIPPED CCA and went to Unicorn and onward? Holy shit, I feel so bad for you.
Unicorn must have been A MESS for you to understand without CCA. You should NOT have done that. That was a VERY bad idea on your part.

2.) Newtypes aren't that hard to understand, dude. They're the alleged Next Evolution of Human Beings. And the way that humans would allegedly evolve into Newtypes is by going into space and the Human Body living and being exposed to the environment of Space for long periods of time. This would in turn cause that person's Newtype abilities to slowly but surely start awakening little by little. Amuro Ray was a Space Colonist, after all. He's been living on Side 7 for a very long time since 0079. And when he got involved with the War, his newtype senses started to slowly awaken; and by the end of 0079, they were far more awakened since it originally started with him. But in CCA, they're 100% Awakened to the max. If you don't understand what Newtype Abilities are, that's kinda surprising; since we've seen them in action so many times throughout the series you've seen and also skipped. Newtypes have a sixth sense in which they can not only sense the presences of other Newtypes as well, but after awhile can also not only communicate via telepathy, but they can also hear the voices of those who have died; mainly the people they knew and were close to. And of course, Newtypes also have the ability to use certain forms of Psychokinesis, which is exactly what the Psycommu Systems utilize to allow Newtypes to use FUNNELS & BITS on Mobile Suits / Mobile Armors. And then when Newtype Abilities are AMPLIFIED by certain things like the Zeta & ZZ's Biosensoors, the Nu Gundam's Psychoframe Cockpits, or to the LARGEST EXTREME, the Unicorn's Psychoframe FRAME and NT-D System, absolutely insane things can happen. For example, with the Zeta Gundam's Biosensor amplifying his newtype abilities, not only did he manage to overcharge his beam saber just by his own anger, but he fucking EMP'ed The O by mere thought. Which btw, The O had a Biosensor as well. This could be a partial reason to this as well, that he could have been fucking with it. But when you have a Biosensor, you can essentially move your mobile suit far more effectively, and control it with your emotions. And of course, the big one. The Unicorn and Banshee's Psychoframe and NT-D Systems take Newtype Abilities and Amplify Them to THE ABSOLUTE EXTREME. Where even the most Basic of Newtypes could pilot them and look like Veterans operating those Gundams. And if you seriously did skip CCA and go to Unicorn (again, RETARDED IDEA), then you saw how not only did Unicorn and Banshee NERF A COLONY LASER with 3 Massive Psycho Fields, but how Unicorn; after it's Psychoframe overloaded, was able to literally EMP a huge fleet of mobile suits with just the flick of its wrist by the pilot's sheer force of will.

Soooooooo yeah....how you haven't picked up on this shit by now is quite surprising. lol
But that's about it, for the most part. lol

[Harbinger of Battle]

My main problem is that for some stupid reason I can't suspend my disbelief as much when newtypes get involved. From what I'm gathering here newtypes are basically toned down Jedi and now things are making more sense. One of the reasons I couldn't pick up on it all that well is because
A) I have ADD and aspergers so picking up on some things can be tricky for me sometimes and it seems newtypes are one of those.
B) I was sometimes confused when something happened as to whether it was the an ability of the mobile suit, newtype powers, or combinations. I always knew when a flash of lightning went across the screen it was newtype powers though.

I did know that newtypes are the next step in human evolution. I knew they could sense the thoughts of others and at times even merge consciousnesses like Amuro and Lalah. If it makes you feel any better I'm hitting up Gundam Wiki harder than ever right now. You are getting through and this stuff IS making more sense.

The other reason I skipped CCA is because I wanted it to be the grand climax of my UC experience. I didn't skip it because I thought it would be bad. Everyone says it's awesome and I'm sure it will be.

This has been a learning curve for me but I WILL get it.

[Random Geek Lord]

Originally posted by Harbinger of Battle:

. Overall I liked Double Zeta. Is it as good as 0079 or Zeta? No, but it's by no means bad.

I'd love to hear some feed back from the Gundam fan community. :)

Personally, I agree with you. The first half of ZZ is a bit cringe-worthy, but it got better and gradually more serious around episode 20-or-so, and by the time they reach Earth it's a much better show. I can also see other people dropping the show, however, and not wanting to watch that far. I started ZZ a few years back and didn't even make it to where he actually aquired the ZZ Gundam (which was like, episode 10 or so?). I got into it again because RightStuff finally released the DVDs/Blu-Rays for the U.S., and I liked it a lot more once I got those. But honestly I don't blame anyone for not really getting into the show near the beginning.

As for what Wacky was saying, I can understand what you're thining of... but I also like Judau a lot and I don't think I would like to see him replaced with Char. Maybe it would make sense and would help to see what he was doing between Zeta and CCA, but I still think Judau is a good protagonist. MAYBE replace Glemy with Char however, that I could see (with some tweaking to his ending in the series that is).

[WackyModder84]

Originally posted by Harbinger of Battle:

A) I have ADD and aspergers so picking up on some things can be tricky for me sometimes and it seems newtypes are one of those.

Join the club, dude. I got both of those too. lol

Originally posted by Harbinger of Battle:

If it makes you feel any better I'm hitting up Gundam Wiki harder than ever right now.

BAD. IDEA.
GundamWiki and MAHQ are two of THE WORST Possible Sources for Gundam Information you can possibly go to. They are RIDDLED with False Information. Take everything you see there with a massive grain of salt.

Originally posted by Harbinger of Battle:

The other reason I skipped CCA is because I wanted it to be the grand climax of my UC experience.

Except CCA is NOT the grand climax of the U.C, though. That's the problem. The grand climax of the U.C. is Victory, NOT CCA. That would ultimately RUIN your U.C. Experience completely if you watched the U.C. Timeline in the way that you did. No wonder you're so confused about everything, dude. You watched the U.C. Timeline completely incorrectly and now there's no way to undo what you did. If only you came to me sooner, I would have given you my Comprehensive Guide on Getting Into Gundam the proper way, and that would have NEVER happened. =\

[Random Geek Lord]

Originally posted by WackyModder84:

If only you came to me sooner, I would have given you my Comprehensive Guide on Getting Into Gundam the proper way, and that would have NEVER happened. =\

I know this is going off-topic a bit (and that I'm kinda butting into this conversation, sorry), but out of curiosity what would be a good way to get someone into Gundam? I've been trying to get friends into it for awhie now but I'm not sure a good place to start.

[WackyModder84]

Originally posted by Random Geek Lord:

I know this is going off-topic a bit (and that I'm kinda butting into this conversation, sorry), but out of curiosity what would be a good way to get someone into Gundam? I've been trying to get friends into it for awhie now but I'm not sure a good place to start.

The best places to start someone off w/ Gundam right now, are:

- Mobile Suit Gundam: The Origin
- Mobile Suit Gundam 0079
- Mobile Suit Gundam: The 08th MS Team
- Mobile Suit Gundam: Thunderbolt
- Mobile Suit Gundam: MS IGLOO

Those 5 are THE BEST Spots to get into Gundam with for newcomers. =)
See more on getting into Gundam PROPERLY here, with my comprehensive guide!
http://pastebin.com/istC7bQk

[Harbinger of Battle]

I have now seen Char's Counterattack and a lot of things just fell into place. To be honest, I don't feel that I ruined my UC experience. It's way better than Wing and I used to be a Wing fan who refused to watch any other Gundam show. After many years I have accepted the fact that the reason I did this was because I was afraid I'd find a better show. lol

By the way, I don't think I'd expose any Gundam newcomer to IGLOO. In fact I would save it for one of the last One Year War viewings.

[WackyModder84]

You DID ruin it, though.
Had you have done the right thing and went through the U.C. Timeline in the right order, you would not have had even A FRACTION of the amount oof confusion you had beforehand; NOR Would you have needed me to explain everything to you in a massive paragraph. The story would have just told itself if you would have watched thru the U.C. Timeline in the order it was meant to be told in.

But sadly, what's done is done. At least now you have a complete U.C. experience; with the exception of the newer ones coming out NOW to add to it.
But it's still such a shame that you did that, dude. Your U.C. experience could have been so much better, and you fucked it up. =\

[Harbinger of Battle]

Maybe I could watch G-Savior while smashing myself in the head with a brick. It might just scramble my brain enough to lose all my memories of UC and start over from scratch. lol