Steam Machines too expensive

[Stanjov]

I think Steam Machines will fail if they don't lower the price or offer some sort of compensation like money on the steam wallet or something like that. People wants machines that offers the same as their consoles for more or less the same price and most of the Steam Machines shows otherwise.

What do u think?

[Majestic Turkey]

İlk olarak Slazur tarafından gönderildi:

A $600 machine will perform far better than any of the consoles. And if you consider the games are much cheaper during sales, you'll eventually end up spending way less.

It won't, pc hardware especially budget hardware rapidly becomes obsolete, when you spend 600 its "barely enough", and you pay the price for that choice. You can't compare apples to oranges, the pc requires upgrades every few yearse, the console can run for a decade without changes. Its just how it is.

[Majestic Turkey]

İlk olarak jaygunn tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Oblithian tarafından gönderildi:

Instead of critizising the thread creator for their opinion, try discussing the issue they bring up.

For example: (looking at the situation as a whole) The steam machines are supposed to act as a console (not necessarily replace a pc). So as a console, will a $499 Steam machine compare with the graphics, and speed of a $499 Xbox One or a $399 PS4?

The specs have little meaning if the games/systems are not using them effectively.

Simply put, yes.

To expand on that, particularly for this generation of consoles (PS4/XBone) there is very little to differentiate them from off the shelf PC parts. They have an x86 CPU, and an AMD GPU. Coding for XBone vs. PS4 vs. PC will all be using the same code base. Developers will be targeting OpenGL and DirectX as they have in the past, but now they no longer have to wrap their heads around custom PowerPC CPUs or crazy Cell SPU architectures.

The iBuyPower Steam Machine at $499 has a CPU that is more powerful than the XBone or PS4, even if it's fewer cores, and the GPU is the same one used in the XBone/PS4. So yes the $499 Steam Machine as a console will compare with the graphics/speed of the $499 PS4 or $399 XBone.

Despite what MA☝Omgwtfbbqstfu™ wants you to believe, yes older PC hardware that is equivalent to the PS3/X360 will run even modern ports of their games. The developers that port the PC version typically will target current PC hardware for the mid-range/default settings, but those settings are way beyond what the PS3/X360 are capable of outputting. You can lower the settings in these games, if not through the options menu, through ini tweaks, and produce an output that is equivalent to what the PS3/X360 are capable of.

Yes, it will look like crap on a nice 24+" monitor you're sitting 2 feet away from... but have you ever hooked a PS3/X360 up to a computer monitor and played any games? They, too, look like crap. 10-15 feet of distance from a TV does a LOT to smooth out these consoles ugly graphic capability.

No its correct, unless you want to tell us that the 1.8ghz single core athlon can play modern games, that statement is simply true. If you are comparing apples to apples, pc hardware does not age well and its a fundamental difference people are ignoring when claiming that pc's are no different than consoles. It doesn't matter how similar the new consoles are to pc, if the market isn't there they won't port. Its just business.

[JamieLinux]

Given If you targert the same 500 dollar machine ibuy power which is amd r9 270 vs a ps3 ps4 the steammachine hands down wins.. not only can u pull 1920x1080 your doing it at settings that far exceeded the ps4 xboxone.. Remember that xboxone and ps4 are 720p and 900p rescaled to 1080... anyone trying to say oh a 500 dollar machine cant compete with the ps4 xboxone is lieing considering these machines are comeing out in the same price range with eqlilvent specs.... Were not talking a 50 dollar athlon cpu.... These gpus are still 200 dollar price range and 250 on the cpu not to mention ram. Theres more to it fyi xbox one and ps4 do not share any similar code except if your talking a games logical base code and graphics that would be shared reguardless of ps4 xbox one steam machine pc... Things like binary compatiblity and API interportablity are in fact 100 percent difffrent.

[Majestic Turkey]

İlk olarak Jamie tarafından gönderildi:

Given If you targert the same 500 dollar machine ibuy power which is amd r9 270 vs a ps3 ps4 the steammachine hands down wins.. not only can u pull 1920x1080 your doing it at settings that far exceeded the ps4 xboxone.. Remember that xboxone and ps4 are 720p and 900p rescaled to 1080... anyone trying to say oh a 500 dollar machine cant compete with the ps4 xboxone is lieing considering these machines are comeing out in the same price range with eqlilvent specs.... Were not talking a 50 dollar athlon cpu.... These gpus are still 200 dollar price range and 250 on the cpu not to mention ram. Theres more to it fyi xbox one and ps4 do not share any similar code except if your talking a games logical base code and graphics that would be shared reguardless of ps4 xbox one steam machine pc... Things like binary compatiblity and API interportablity are in fact 100 percent difffrent.

It doesn't because thats not how things work out. Ask yourself why do games on real consoles get better looking through the years. The recent games are staggering compared to where the consoles were originally. http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2013/09/17/a-visual-reminder-of-how-far-xbox-360-games-have-come-in-eight-years/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2013/09/18/a-visual-reminder-of-how-far-playstation-3-games-have-come-in-seven-years/ Thats the power of a fixed platform. What do the graphics of a budget pc from 8 years ago look like today? Riddle me that? You can't compare apples to oranges, you will come to the wrong conclusions.

[JamieLinux]

İlk olarak Majestic_Turkey tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Jamie tarafından gönderildi:

Given If you targert the same 500 dollar machine ibuy power which is amd r9 270 vs a ps3 ps4 the steammachine hands down wins.. not only can u pull 1920x1080 your doing it at settings that far exceeded the ps4 xboxone.. Remember that xboxone and ps4 are 720p and 900p rescaled to 1080... anyone trying to say oh a 500 dollar machine cant compete with the ps4 xboxone is lieing considering these machines are comeing out in the same price range with eqlilvent specs.... Were not talking a 50 dollar athlon cpu.... These gpus are still 200 dollar price range and 250 on the cpu not to mention ram. Theres more to it fyi xbox one and ps4 do not share any similar code except if your talking a games logical base code and graphics that would be shared reguardless of ps4 xbox one steam machine pc... Things like binary compatiblity and API interportablity are in fact 100 percent difffrent.

It doesn't because thats not how things work out. Ask yourself why do games on real consoles get better looking through the years. The recent games are staggering compared to where the consoles were originally. http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2013/09/17/a-visual-reminder-of-how-far-xbox-360-games-have-come-in-eight-years/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2013/09/18/a-visual-reminder-of-how-far-playstation-3-games-have-come-in-seven-years/ Thats the power of a fixed platform. What do the graphics of a budget pc from 8 years ago look like today? Riddle me that? You can't compare apples to oranges, you will come to the wrong conclusions.

were not comparing 8 year old pc vs a ps4 your pulling a 500 doller ps4 vs a steam machine at the same price.... Get it ok then.... Your 8 year old pc is moot point and illrelivent. Thanks no were comparng same price range vs same price range.....


You guys keep talking like pc's have not eveloved and or 500 dollar today steam machine isnt relivent... 8 years ago people built pc's that outclassed the xbox360 and ps3 yes they wer released at a loss you were not paying for what the real cost of the hardware ran.. They were makeing it back in software and accesseries.


The retail SBX should include built-in wi-fi, Bluetooth, an internal power supply, a 500GB HDD, 4GB RAM, quad-core Athlon X4 740 CPU, and a Radeon R7 260X graphics card supporting AMD's Mantle API, iBuyPower's Brad Soken said. Those specs aren't expected to change too drastically leading up to launch.

thats ibuypowers 500 dollar steam machine..

ps4

Main processor
Single-chip custom processor
CPU: low power x86-64 AMD “Jaguar”, 8 cores
GPU: 1.84 TFLOPS, AMD Radeon™ Graphics Core Next engine
Memory GDDR5 8GB
Hard Disk Drive Built-in

RAM

8GB DDR3
Clock: 2133MHz Bandwidth: 68.26 GB/s
+ 32MB eSRAM
Bandwidth: 204 GB/s(102 In/102 Out) [3]

Flash Memory

8GB Flash Memory [4]

CPU
8 Core AMD custom CPU
Frequency: 1.75 GHz [5]
GPU Clock Speed: 853 MHz(originally 800 MHz)
Shader Cores: 768
Peak Throughput: 1.23 TFLOPS [6]

Storage

500 GB Hard Drive non-replaceable, External Hard Drive

even tho the cpu is technally slower your still getting better preformance out of the ibuypower steambox at 500 then a xboxone ps4...... Especally sense you can really do 1920x1080

sense ps4 and xbox one have yet to prove full 60 fps eh funny part is bencharmk that system and upscale 720p and or 900 p to 1080 and its just going to trainwerk both of them.

[JamieLinux]

oh better yet take a ps3 version of final fantasy arr and take even a old core 2 with a 8800 gts and compare the graphics lol we will wait you talk about how graphics are better on the ps3 umm the game looks like poop on the ps3 and plays like it

[ivlr3vil]

Ignore the pricing, there's no point for them to price something that isn't even complete. The companies that didn't put a price on the unveil are smart. The moment Steam Machine is released officially is when you should take a look at prices. By then, I'm assuming most of them will be affordable because Nvidia and Intel would be moving on to even more higher end technology. I remembered paying a ton of cash for a GTX 660 and the value has dropped in just several months. Now Nvidia is doing 780 and titans, the titan will then drop immensely in price over time.

The current prices, in my opinion, is what the Steam Machines would be if they were released on this very day.

[8BitCerberus]

İlk olarak Majestic_Turkey tarafından gönderildi:

It doesn't because thats not how things work out. Ask yourself why do games on real consoles get better looking through the years.

They used to get better looking over the life of the conosle because developers were figuring out all the little tweaks and architecture specific code they can do to improve things.

It won't work like that with the PS4 and XBone because it's the same x86 code that developers have been doing for decades on PC already. They're ALREADY familiar with the platform. There is no learning curve with this generation. They already know all the little tweaks and architecture specific code they can do to improve things.

And they STILL can't seem to push a reliable 1080p out of them.

[JamieLinux]

İlk olarak jaygunn tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Majestic_Turkey tarafından gönderildi:

It doesn't because thats not how things work out. Ask yourself why do games on real consoles get better looking through the years.

They used to get better looking over the life of the conosle because developers were figuring out all the little tweaks and architecture specific code they can do to improve things.

It won't work like that with the PS4 and XBone because it's the same x86 code that developers have been doing for decades on PC already. They're ALREADY familiar with the platform. There is no learning curve with this generation. They already know all the little tweaks and architecture specific code they can do to improve things.

And they STILL can't seem to push a reliable 1080p out of them.

This is why steambox will prob decimate xboxone and ps4.... little bit more money and u got a 2k monster on your hands :P in 2011-2012 the price of a 2k 1440p gameing rig was 1200 give or take today the same cost is ruffly what 600-800 give or take?
http://www.developer-tech.com/media/nvidia-geforce-gtx-battlebox-batman-arkham-origins-4k-versus-hd-640px.jpg

[danman]

İlk olarak Majestic_Turkey tarafından gönderildi:

It won't, pc hardware especially budget hardware rapidly becomes obsolete, when you spend 600 its "barely enough", and you pay the price for that choice. You can't compare apples to oranges, the pc requires upgrades every few yearse, the console can run for a decade without changes. Its just how it is.

That's a good point. From what I've seen a lot of these Machines are built in such a compact way that upgrading them in the future will be difficult, if not impossible. Mostly because of custom built cooling solutions for GPU and CPU.

[Oblithian]

İlk olarak jaygunn tarafından gönderildi:

Yes, it will look like crap on a nice 24+" monitor you're sitting 2 feet away from... but have you ever hooked a PS3/X360 up to a computer monitor and played any games? They, too, look like crap. 10-15 feet of distance from a TV does a LOT to smooth out these consoles ugly graphic capability.

I have my 360 hooked up to a 24" HD monitor, it looks better there than on my TV. I have to say, that playing mass effect 3 on my PC only looks about the same as on my 360, except the minimum system requirements are significantly higher and it doesn't run as smoothly. ...probably because the pc runs a huge and inefficient OS (with many sub applications) in the background.

İlk olarak danman tarafından gönderildi:

That's a good point. From what I've seen a lot of these Machines are built in such a compact way that upgrading them in the future will be difficult, if not impossible. Mostly because of custom built cooling solutions for GPU and CPU.

My concerns as well.

[8BitCerberus]

İlk olarak Oblithian tarafından gönderildi:

I have my 360 hooked up to a 24" HD monitor, it looks better there than on my TV. I have to say, that playing mass effect 3 on my PC only looks about the same as on my 360,

I'm sorry, but no. You'd have to be half blind to not see the difference between 720p (or lower) scaled up to 1080p vs. native 1080p (or higher).

And that's not even getting into the much lower quality textures and post processing.

[helm123]

İlk olarak wh1sper_123 tarafından gönderildi:

you can't buy Ferrari and expect to pay the same as BMW. neither you can't buy BMW and expect to pay the same as VW Polo. but, all those can drive you to final destination... question is how

iBuyPower has more power than PS4/XBone, but costs the same. where do you see the problem and why would steam need to compensate for more expensive rigs?

I'd steer clear of IbuyPowers offering though as I'm currently living in their customer service nightmare over a custom PC build.

[JamieLinux]

You know i think i found the inhearnt flaw in this conversation.. Its not about price vs preformance.. You could get a 500 dollar steam machine that will do better then a 500 dollar xbox or ps4 we wont debate it its a proven fact.. (provided oems dont change what they listed.) It comes down to half the people here remember gameing before consoles during and what they are now.. They also have been though the real price of a console vs just upgrading a pc here and there vs people that have eather had a pc given to them or grew up in the era where owning a console was the norm before using the pc.. Ill even argue in favor at the time of the xbox 360 there wasn't a pc that could match it..... price vs preformance.. But at the same time given how fast pc's change newer bleeding edge takes off which drives the prices of main stream parts out... You could in fact build a machine for about the same price you would spend on the ps4 and or xbox given all the assesseries you would have to buy and or re buy the games and come out with a system that would outclass it.... It might not be by much but it would and its still upgradeable.

[Majestic Turkey]

İlk olarak Jamie tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Majestic_Turkey tarafından gönderildi:

It doesn't because thats not how things work out. Ask yourself why do games on real consoles get better looking through the years. The recent games are staggering compared to where the consoles were originally. http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2013/09/17/a-visual-reminder-of-how-far-xbox-360-games-have-come-in-eight-years/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2013/09/18/a-visual-reminder-of-how-far-playstation-3-games-have-come-in-seven-years/ Thats the power of a fixed platform. What do the graphics of a budget pc from 8 years ago look like today? Riddle me that? You can't compare apples to oranges, you will come to the wrong conclusions.

were not comparing 8 year old pc vs a ps4 your pulling a 500 doller ps4 vs a steam machine at the same price.... Get it ok then.... Your 8 year old pc is moot point and illrelivent. Thanks no were comparng same price range vs same price range.....


You guys keep talking like pc's have not eveloved and or 500 dollar today steam machine isnt relivent... 8 years ago people built pc's that outclassed the xbox360 and ps3 yes they wer released at a loss you were not paying for what the real cost of the hardware ran.. They were makeing it back in software and accesseries.


The retail SBX should include built-in wi-fi, Bluetooth, an internal power supply, a 500GB HDD, 4GB RAM, quad-core Athlon X4 740 CPU, and a Radeon R7 260X graphics card supporting AMD's Mantle API, iBuyPower's Brad Soken said. Those specs aren't expected to change too drastically leading up to launch.

thats ibuypowers 500 dollar steam machine..

ps4

Main processor
Single-chip custom processor
CPU: low power x86-64 AMD “Jaguar”, 8 cores
GPU: 1.84 TFLOPS, AMD Radeon™ Graphics Core Next engine
Memory GDDR5 8GB
Hard Disk Drive Built-in

RAM

8GB DDR3
Clock: 2133MHz Bandwidth: 68.26 GB/s
+ 32MB eSRAM
Bandwidth: 204 GB/s(102 In/102 Out) [3]

Flash Memory

8GB Flash Memory [4]

CPU
8 Core AMD custom CPU
Frequency: 1.75 GHz [5]
GPU Clock Speed: 853 MHz(originally 800 MHz)
Shader Cores: 768
Peak Throughput: 1.23 TFLOPS [6]

Storage

500 GB Hard Drive non-replaceable, External Hard Drive

even tho the cpu is technally slower your still getting better preformance out of the ibuypower steambox at 500 then a xboxone ps4...... Especally sense you can really do 1920x1080

sense ps4 and xbox one have yet to prove full 60 fps eh funny part is bencharmk that system and upscale 720p and or 900 p to 1080 and its just going to trainwerk both of them.

Its not a moot point, its an apples to apples comparison. What did 500 dollars in 2005 buy you for console vs pc, how did said 500 dollar investment age over 8 years. This is all relevant information if you are to make a comparison based on the facts. And so far, the ugly reality of how badly pc's age is just a thing that people can't deal with when attempting a fair discussion on this. The 360 and ps3 defy their specs to deliver AAA games in 2014. Again, you are comparing at the crank, but I'm comparing at the wheels.