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所有讨论 > 综合讨论 > 主题详情
Sierran 2014 年 3 月 7 日 上午 6:38
OpenGL vs Direct x
Hey ppl.
Dunno how meny of u out there that has been seeing this. But its very informativ about Linux vs Directx.

http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/133824-valve-opengl-is-faster-than-directx-even-on-windows

I also been on linux for about a week, And I'm in love. its faster, smoother, easyer to use, well there is a lot of commands on the terminal. But I'm slowly catching up.

And now I'v tryed Mentro LL. If I should compaired Linux performece to windows, I got insanly more fps on linux and I could also use higher grafic settings.

I'm using
gtx 650 1g
intel i5 2,25ghz
16 ram
ubuntu 12.04

I wanted to upgrade my grafics card when I was using windows but now I don't see any reason to really.
And I guess I'm stuck with Ubuntu ^^

Microsoft are really ruining everything they touch, its not just a rumor.






最后由 Sierran 编辑于; 2014 年 3 月 7 日 上午 6:41
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正在显示第 16 - 30 条,共 44 条留言
Majestic Turkey 2014 年 3 月 8 日 下午 2:18 
Op cites article from 2012:P

And yea op, no conflict of interest there at all, valve "benchmarks" open gl when it was building its own competing os, using mostly old games like half life? left 4 dead as test bed? Really? How old are those games again? They used new open gl optimizations on an old game, how is that an apples to apples test of anything. Valve source engines are hardly known for either being cutting edge or efficient for the longest time now in any case.

You've probably noticed that since 2012, that article has made basically no dent in the industry, theres not been a mass switchover to open gl.

A new version of direct x is coming out as we've found out from recent announcements...
最后由 Majestic Turkey 编辑于; 2014 年 3 月 8 日 下午 2:18
Shark 2014 年 3 月 8 日 下午 2:20 
引用自 Majestic Turkey
Op cites article from 2012:P

And yea op, no conflict of interest there at all, valve "benchmarks" open gl when it was building its own competing os, using mostly old games like half life? left 4 dead as test bed? Really? How old are those games again? They used new open gl optimizations on an old game, how is that an apples to apples test of anything. Valve source engines are hardly known for either being cutting edge or efficient for the longest time now in any case.

You've probably noticed that since 2012, that article has made basically no dent in the industry, theres not been a mass switchover to open gl.

A new version of direct x is coming out as we've found out from recent announcements...
This is not entirely true. You can run source games on any card with either DirectX 9 or OpenGL 2.1 support, which are about the same age.
最后由 Shark 编辑于; 2014 年 3 月 8 日 下午 2:20
Majestic Turkey 2014 年 3 月 8 日 下午 2:23 
引用自 Shark
引用自 Majestic Turkey
Op cites article from 2012:P

And yea op, no conflict of interest there at all, valve "benchmarks" open gl when it was building its own competing os, using mostly old games like half life? left 4 dead as test bed? Really? How old are those games again? They used new open gl optimizations on an old game, how is that an apples to apples test of anything. Valve source engines are hardly known for either being cutting edge or efficient for the longest time now in any case.

You've probably noticed that since 2012, that article has made basically no dent in the industry, theres not been a mass switchover to open gl.

A new version of direct x is coming out as we've found out from recent announcements...
This is not entirely true, you can run source games on any card with either DirectX 9 or OpenGL 2.1 support, which are about the same age.

Well of course games run on any card, thats what stuff like dx or opengl is for.
But the game engine valve churns out are not considered cutting edge or efficient. Haven't been for the longest time. That honor would go to some other companies like epics unreal engine or cryengine or frostbite engine.

Anyways the recent announcement by microsoft implied they are about to eat amd mantles lunch. So anyone placing their hopes on devs sinking resources into mantel just got smacked:P Just doesn't make sense to now.
Shark 2014 年 3 月 8 日 下午 2:30 
引用自 Majestic Turkey
Well of course games run on any card, thats what stuff like dx or opengl is for.
But the game engine valve churns out are not considered cutting edge or efficient. Haven't been for the longest time. That honor would go to some other companies like epics unreal engine or cryengine or frostbite engine.
I'd say that's unfair, when they started working on porting the source engine, Left 4 Dead 2 had the last version. Source is actually one of the more efficient engines out there and it's still being worked on. The difference between Valve and Epic is that they don't give it a new version number every couple of years. Portal 2, Dota 2, Titan Fall and CS:GO actually look very impressive. Also, we will see an announcement for the Source engine 2 soon. Which will be OpenGL only from what I've seen in the info that has been shown so far.
最后由 Shark 编辑于; 2014 年 3 月 8 日 下午 2:31
Majestic Turkey 2014 年 3 月 8 日 下午 2:37 
引用自 Shark
引用自 Majestic Turkey
Well of course games run on any card, thats what stuff like dx or opengl is for.
But the game engine valve churns out are not considered cutting edge or efficient. Haven't been for the longest time. That honor would go to some other companies like epics unreal engine or cryengine or frostbite engine.
I'd say that's unfair, when they started working on porting the source engine, Left 4 Dead 2 had the last version. Source is actually one of the more efficient engines out there and it's still being worked on. The difference between Valve and Epic is that they don't give it a new version number every couple of years. Portal 2, Dota 2, Titan Fall and CS:GO actually look very impressive. Also, we will see an announcement for the Source engine 2 soon. Which will be OpenGL only from what I've seen in the info that has been shown so far.

You are right its unfair, whats the last time left 4 dead 2 was performance optimized for windows?;)

Valve comes out with new versions of the source engine from time to time but its rather telling very few developers license it. Its not cutting edge and has never been seen as efficient, but its been known for doing odd things like being incredibly cpu bound and other weirdness.

Anyways they weren't testing the newest against the newest which is the problem, but old games which leads to results which have no real meaning.
DOG WITH HOT MILK 2014 年 3 月 8 日 下午 6:42 
opengl and direct x are on the same level one does not trully beat the other untill u look and see that opengl can run games on every platform exept xbox and if they just code it once in open gl and the game engion supports linux why not port and optimize your game.
Ooli 2014 年 3 月 10 日 上午 3:32 
just for a quick question:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_OpenGL_and_Direct3D
is the basic saying in it still true:
OpenGL for the Professional work
Direct3D for us non immortals

As i don't know anything really about DX12(except some press posts about it), can anyone tell me, if it will get some more features for the professional work, or is trying to get some cool features exclusively for MS OSes?
I read very often the last 2 month that DX12 will be better than OpenGL, and as i see better mostly happen in ways like Nvidia vs. ATI, Cuda/NVision, ... against the AMD counterparts and in the end everything is the same on the screen, with this pixel looks better on AMD, this one on GForce, ... Is there anything comming like that in DX12, that i missed?
Shark 2014 年 3 月 10 日 上午 3:57 
引用自 Ooli
just for a quick question:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_OpenGL_and_Direct3D
is the basic saying in it still true:
OpenGL for the Professional work
Direct3D for us non immortals

As i don't know anything really about DX12(except some press posts about it), can anyone tell me, if it will get some more features for the professional work, or is trying to get some cool features exclusively for MS OSes?
I read very often the last 2 month that DX12 will be better than OpenGL, and as i see better mostly happen in ways like Nvidia vs. ATI, Cuda/NVision, ... against the AMD counterparts and in the end everything is the same on the screen, with this pixel looks better on AMD, this one on GForce, ... Is there anything comming like that in DX12, that i missed?
For most people it doesn't matter if dx12 will be any good, since it will be Windows 8.1 only. Meanwhile OpenGL 4 works on all new hardware regardless of os.(Intel in an execption here, but only on Linux)
最后由 Shark 编辑于; 2014 年 3 月 10 日 上午 4:00
XÆЯO_Vince 2014 年 3 月 10 日 上午 5:55 
Intel is working to bring OpenGL 4 support with its Mesa driver as the Mesa API implements it. Right now its at OpenGL 3.3 as are the open source Radeon and Nouveau drivers. The proprietary drivers have 4.x support I believe, though.

Linux also actually has a native implementation of Direct3D 9 via Gallium3D but its not maintained in sync with Mesa and Gallium3D and is a seperate experimental patchset. There is also a patch for Wine 1.6 that utilizes the native Direct3D implementation versus the OpenGL to Direct3D translator. Many games have been tested with native Direct3D on Linux and games like Skyrim run around 2x faster (higher FPS) with it in the special D3D Wine.
最后由 XÆЯO_Vince 编辑于; 2014 年 3 月 10 日 上午 6:01
Colonel 2014 年 3 月 12 日 上午 4:05 
GLIDE - Win :insfist:
76561198129512589 2014 年 3 月 12 日 下午 9:38 
oliiis
Balderick 2014 年 3 月 13 日 上午 6:14 
For gaming SteamOS is the choice to make. The current gaming performance stats in SteamOS bpm compared to say running Steam client in Debian desktop do not reflect the potential of what is going on under the bonnet but am sure this time next year it will be a different case.

Many devs are looking at porting their apps/games to opengl.

It is possible to make a port for both of course and even easier for devs to do this thanks to Valve and Steam machines since most use directx.
For directx to opengl translation https://github.com/ValveSoftware/ToGL
Credit to Moskeeto for sharing this over at TWI forums http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=1298060&postcount=27

Some more useful links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirectX
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct3D
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenGL

I found this http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/09/16/linux_foundation_kernel_report_2013/ very interesting regarding linux kernel development and may be indicative we will be all gaming from mobile devices or phone sized devices in a couple of years. The Desktop is dead. Maybe Microsofts taking over Nokia will be a huge investment and they may very well continue to be industry leaders. Time will tell.;-)
最后由 Balderick 编辑于; 2014 年 3 月 13 日 上午 6:52
XÆЯO_Vince 2014 年 3 月 13 日 上午 9:07 
Not everyone wants to play their games on a tiny phone or tablet screen. Furthermore, if you look at the current state of moble gaming, you'll see its full of crappy games like Angry Birds and (gasp) Flappy Bird and they also happen to be the most popular. I sure as hell don't want to play that junk, except maybe occassionally out of bordem on a lunch break at work--do you? I don't see gaming PCs and game consoles being completely replaced any time soon because people still enjoy *premium* gaming experiences on larger screens that PCs and consoles provide.

I think the argument to make is that mobile devices (phones & tablets) are replacing the role of PCs for the general consumer who simply just browse the internet, stream videos, and check email. These consumers don't need the power of a PC any longer and that is why mobile is taking over for these class of consumers. Gamers and people who need the power of PCs for things like CAD, graphics design, video production, servers, etc. will continue to demand them.
最后由 XÆЯO_Vince 编辑于; 2014 年 3 月 13 日 上午 9:11
Balderick 2014 年 3 月 13 日 下午 2:12 
"Not everyone wants to play their games on a tiny phone or tablet screen."
No they don't that is why they have hdmi connection to go big screen :-) These portable devices are more than capable of running the kind of applications you list. The Desktop is dead. (or is in the eyes of manufcturers) And totally agree with "I think the argument to make is that mobile devices (phones & tablets) are replacing the role of PCs" but for "things like CAD, graphics design, video production,"

I think Valve are foreseeing this and is part of the Steam machine project. How easy would it be to port SteamOS to ARM architecture?

About a year ago after watching an episode of Click (UK techie news program) where the opening sequence was the presenter was burying a desktop PC case in the (think it was) Nevada or Arizona desert and i felt like you in the line of thought "hmmm not quite yet"

Watching a more recent episode of the Gadget Show made the same claim and proved there are already realistic mobile options for the hardcore gamer. They also declared "The Desktop is dead"

Also sales figures indicate a drastic decrease in Desktop sales.
最后由 Balderick 编辑于; 2014 年 3 月 13 日 下午 2:28
istvan_v 2014 年 3 月 13 日 下午 4:04 
引用自 40-1PvtBalderick
No they don't that is why they have hdmi connection to go big screen :-)

Now they only need to add some more usable input devices, and get something that can be used like a desktop PC, but is underpowered, and locked down with no way to upgrade the hardware or sometimes even replace the built-in OS.

引用自 40-1PvtBalderick
Watching a more recent episode of the Gadget Show made the same claim and proved there are already realistic mobile options for the hardcore gamer.

Great. Any links to benchmarks of current PC AAA games running on tablets and cell phones ?

引用自 40-1PvtBalderick
Also sales figures indicate a drastic decrease in Desktop sales.

PC hardware no longer becomes obsolete in a couple of years like in the 90's, and when it does, it can be upgraded, which makes counting "sales" somewhat problematic. For example, I have a desktop PC bought assembled from parts many years ago, and since then, all parts have been replaced, some even multiple times. How would your sales stats account for that ?
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发帖日期: 2014 年 3 月 7 日 上午 6:38
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