H.264 codec; how do AMD GPUs do it?

[grumpycrab]

Sorry if this has been discussed already (any links appreciated) but, assuming H.264 is the codec standard used in streaming, how do AMD GPUs do the encoding? Perhaps the answer is they don't?

[Balderick]

I have an APU system running without any dedicated GPU which uses AMD Radeon HD 6550D. Using this to watch all my TV programmes through iplayers online which mostly use H.264 internet streaming. This works by having the codecs installed on OS so as system can decode the internet streaming.
Why do you think AMD GPU's/APU's can not decode H.264 streaming?

What amazes me is i can play all my Steam library games with no dedicated GPU; including DX11 games! The mobo, APU and RAM bundle cost less than half price of PS4 or XboxOne!
There are two PCI-E slots gagging on Radeon HD cards which could give more than 7GB GDDR (3 + 3 + 1) available to system....

[grumpycrab]

As you can tell, I know little about H.264. I'm getting confused by the mandated nvidia GPUs used in nvidia gamestream. I guess that is hardware encoding (which is new?). I guess Steam encoding will use a hardware codec (if itexists) but otherwise will use software codec. And, unless this is all b1llsh1t, is the H.264 ENcoding at the host resource intensive?

[Seoson]

Where is the problem? My Server doesn't even have a GPU and it can decode and encode H.264 Streams. It will require your CPU to do all the calculating.

[grumpycrab]

Originally posted by RSDSeoson:

Where is the problem?

It does't sound as if there is one. So CPU H.264 encoding (at the host) is a trivial task?

[Rautapalli]

Originally posted by RSDSeoson:

Where is the problem? My Server doesn't even have a GPU and it can decode and encode H.264 Streams. It will require your CPU to do all the calculating.

I believe he is referencing to Shadowplay/Nvidia shield streaming. New Nvidia cards actually have a hardware H264 encoder built into the cards, AMD doesn't. The performance hit from game capture and encoding will be much higher with AMD hardware because of this, assuming Valve is even going to use the nvidia HW encoder.

[Balderick]

Simply searching web for "home streaming" gave a couple of pointers regarding your interesting q grumpycrab!
DLNA = Digital Living Network Alliance gives the hardware option/principle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Living_Network_Alliance

This page
http://mashable.com/2011/02/16/media-streaming-how-to/
helps define the hardware or software options for home streaming.

Rautapalli i don't think Steam machines will use the nVidia hardware streaming directly (users could if they wanted though but not part of SteamOS/Client)
Once beta testers have their hardware will be interesting to see what is what ie two streaming options on beta machines with GTX650 or better....

[🐶 Halfy]

Originally posted by RSDSeoson:

assuming Valve is even going to use the nvidia HW encoder.

EDIT: Sorry, that quoted wrong :/

That is a good point. H.264 is great for encoding with multicore CPUs so any recent CPUs would be great anyway.

I don't think you guys should be worrying about h264 encoding if your running this from a rig that can play games decently, which is what the service is to be used for.

[Rautapalli]

Originally posted by PvtBalderick:

Simply searching web for "home streaming" gave a couple of pointers regarding your q grumpycrab!
DLNA = Digital Living Network Alliance gives the hardware option/principle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Living_Network_Alliance

This page
http://mashable.com/2011/02/16/media-streaming-how-to/
helps define the hardware or software options for home streaming.

This has nothing to do with his question, it actually has nothing to do with streaming itself. The issue is how the video is encoded (whether it is saved locally or streamed is irrelevant in this case). Without a hardware encoder there could be a noticeable performance drop in some games if you don't have a beefy CPU.

And to answer OP's question: You are correct, they simply won't. They will use a software encoder instead. Whether Valve is even going to use the HW Nvidia encoder is still unknown also, for all we know it might be software encoding in both cases.

[Balderick]

AMD have their own H.264 encoder ref:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5261/amd-radeon-hd-7970-review/9
and
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=168462

Simply search web https://www.google.co.uk/#q=amd+h.264+encoder

[Rautapalli]

Originally posted by PvtBalderick:

AMD have their own H.264 encoder ref:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5261/amd-radeon-hd-7970-review/9
and
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=168462

Simply search web https://www.google.co.uk/#q=amd+h.264+encoder

Both of your sources are talking about hardware-accelerated encoding, it's not the same thing. Both AMD and NVidia cards have had the capability for years through OpenCL and Cuda, but it's horribly inefficient compared to software encoding (which by the way is even mentioned in the thread you linked) or actual dedicated hardware like the chip on nvidia kepler GPUs.

[Squidnugget]

Im interested in this too, it's one of the reasons why Shadowplay and Shield streaming are limited to 600/700 series GPUs (Nvidia) IE: all other nvidia GPU's lack a hardware encoder.

[Balderick]

Originally posted by Rautapalli:

New Nvidia cards actually have a hardware H264 encoder built into the cards, AMD doesn't

and then

Originally posted by Rautapalli:

Both AMD and NVidia cards have had the capability for years through OpenCL and Cuda,...

I shared links to try and show there are both hardware and software options for h.264 encoding using AMD hardware.

[FlotterGamername]

I'd be very disappointed if Valve decided not to support NVENC.
I use the NVENC-enabled ShadowPlay which records the last 5 or more minutes continously and offers Fraps-like recording as well, while not incurring any noticable performance hit (unlike Fraps e.g.).
Splashtop Gamepad also makes use of it and it's definitely better than all similar solutions (but still not perfect).
Must-have in my opinion.

[Rautapalli]

Originally posted by PvtBalderick:

Originally posted by Rautapalli:

New Nvidia cards actually have a hardware H264 encoder built into the cards, AMD doesn't

and then

Originally posted by Rautapalli:

Both AMD and NVidia cards have had the capability for years through OpenCL and Cuda,...

I shared links to try and show there are both hardware and software options for h.264 encoding using AMD hardware.

And my point still stands. You do not seem to understand the difference between GPGPU and dedicated video encoder hardware.

[blackout24]

♥♥♥♥ encoding. Just setup a 10 Gigabit Ethernet, that will be enough to send 1080p @ 60 FPS uncompressed. :D No encoding, no decoding, no added lag. Only about 2 µs ping latency.

(32 bit color depth * 1920 * 1080 * 60 Hz) / 1 Billion Bits = 3.98 Gbps

You could even send 120 FPS, but most TVs will only take 30 Hz input anyway.