Can I request the removal of Heartbeat from the list?

[locuas642]

the game devs have recently been revealed as deeply transphobic and doubling down on it time and time again.
https://www.resetera.com/threads/heartbeat-devs-double-down-on-transphobia-by-mocking-trans-suicides-with-a-41-off-sale.144341/

[Curly]

As much as I'm against transphobia, I don't support this idea.

We're a "Does the game have girl x girl content?" curator, not a "Is the game dev a good person?" curator. That's a whole can of worms we don't want to open.

I think the only times we've refused to list/removed games was when they were using stolen art assets so they were violating steam policy/copyright law.

[souryuu5]

I wonder if, at the very least, a notice about the devs being transphobic should be put on the curator review, if only to let those who are uncomfortable with supporting such people know ahead of time.

[Afoo]

I second this
don't support bigots

[Curly]

Originally posted by souryuu5:

I wonder if, at the very least, a notice about the devs being transphobic should be put on the curator review, if only to let those who are uncomfortable with supporting such people know ahead of time.

But again, this opens a whole can of worms where now we need to review every developer/publisher.

There was that story recently about Chucklefish not paying its employees. Guess we better put a warning on Stardew Valley, since Chucklefish used to publish that game, and some people won't be comfortable supporting anything they've touched.

I have personal objections to quite a few developers/publishers listed on here, but it shouldn't be this curator's job to judge their moral character.

[tenshi_a]

Since there are many transwomen who are lesbians, I think I'd add a note.

It's more to speak up than it is to omit the game and excuse yourself from the discussion.

[Ruff Rabbit]

Hm, so quick question: does this group support those activists who go out of their way try to bully lesbians and try to persuade them that not liking dick is a hate crime against trans women? Not interested in a discussion, just a yes or no answer will be enough, thanks!

[Afoo]

Originally posted by Ruff Rabbit:

Hm, so quick question: does this group support those activists who go out of their way try to bully lesbians and try to persuade them that not liking dick is a hate crime against trans women? Not interested in a discussion, just a yes or no answer will be enough, thanks! :shpickle:

I don't think so but what does this have to do with the topic at hand?

[Entrexia]

Originally posted by souryuu5:

I wonder if, at the very least, a notice about the devs being transphobic should be put on the curator review.

Probably a good idea.

[Sunwitch]

i think it's worth adding a note at the very least. i don't think a tacit endorsement, which is what it looks like right now, is the right move. i don't think just removing it altogether (or shifting it to "not recommended") is out of order, either.

it's really unfortunate, i had it wishlisted for a while and was gonna buy it when it next went on sale, but instead i'm finding myself removing it from my wishlist. disappointing, i wish this didn't happen so often, but at least we have good games from others like worst girl games and studio elan doing good trans-inclusive lesbian content as well!

[Sunwitch]

Originally posted by Ruff Rabbit:

Hm, so quick question: does this group support those activists who go out of their way try to bully lesbians and try to persuade them that not liking dick is a hate crime against trans women? Not interested in a discussion, just a yes or no answer will be enough, thanks! :shpickle:

this is a complicated topic in itself and i don't think it's useful to bring up here. right now we're talking about whether supporting a developer who says trans women can't be real lesbians and mocks trans suicide rates is OK. genital preference is a whole other can of worms.

[Nyx-86]

I think if it's not gonna be removed, which preferably it would in my own opinion as a trans woman and a lesbian, there should at least be a note that the creators have major issues with transphobia. I mean a sale mocking the suicide rate of trans people is fucked up and folks should know what they're supporting.

[Teitoku Yukka]

Here we go again... Okay. I'm very-very pissed about this, so my english would be VERY and VERY fucked up. Sorry. And, i'm from Russia, so, think twice before blame me, lesbian myself and very tolerance woman wish many things, like trans, in transfobia. THINK twice, because i'm here not for blaming YOU and others about "others-opinion-phobic".
I don't ever seen a little single thing, that state one shit - this girl wants death for trans. NOWHERE. I don't remember, that this number - 41%, belongs to transpeople. I've seen a many games wish this sale number, like Borderlands 1-2, many games from divinite series, GTA, Wicher and many more. So, this games and their dev are transphobic? Or what? But screw this, i'm much more pissed about where are you all been when Ladykiller was state in this group? Or you all from other side, that support this game? Ladykiller have a VERY transphobic AND lesbianphobic nature, because of het rape theme and after rape, main heroine, who pretends being man, state that from that very moment she like dicks. Because of RAPE DAMN! And this was "OKAY", because this Vn was "SO GOOD AND REALISTIC!!", yes?. I still remember this topics on magazines. Why you don't speak about Ladykiller and removal shit, locuas642? And you all. Are you all absolutely okay with that, because dev of this VN, Ladykiller, don't said something, that can be what may not coincide with your opinion? It's like that, yeah? And heartbeat don't even have something transphobic in it. Ah, i forggot... Tolerance only about that - "You can say anything as long as it agrees with my opinion. Or you'll be blamed like something-phobic". Just because this girl don't wanna have sex wish someone, like men. Maybe she is lesbian. Because she thinks somehow diffirent, does not give you the right to stigmatize her like "-phobic'.Deal wish that and stop cry about every single thing that can harm you, because you THINKS that a right thing. If this game would be removed, i'm done. So fucking done with hypocrisy of some people, who just can't ignore something, that don't have to do with them. I'M LESBIAN AND I'M LIVE IN ONE OF THE MOST LGBT-PHOBIC COUNTRY. AND I'M NOT CRY ABOUT THAT. I'M DEAL WITH THAT EVERY SINGLE FUCKING DAY, EVEN WITH MY PARENTS, WHO WANTS GRANDCHILDREN. So. Try to blame me with something "phobic".
Fuck this tread. Hanako, you can hit me with banhammer. I'm done with this.

[Sunwitch]

Originally posted by Teitoku Yukka:

Here we go again... Okay. I'm very-very pissed about this, so my english would be VERY and VERY fucked up. Sorry. And, i'm from Russia, so, think twice before blame me, lesbian myself and very tolerance woman wish many things, like trans, in transfobia. THINK twice, because i'm here not for blaming YOU and others about "others-opinion-phobic".
I don't ever seen a little single thing, that state one shit - this girl wants death for trans. NOWHERE. I don't remember, that this number - 41%, belongs to transpeople. I've seen a many games wish this sale number, like Borderlands 1-2, many games from divinite series, GTA, Wicher and many more. So, this games and their dev are transphobic? Or what? But screw this, i'm much more pissed about where are you all been when Ladykiller was state in this group? Or you all from other side, that support this game? Ladykiller have a VERY transphobic AND lesbianphobic nature, because of het rape theme and after rape, main heroine, who pretends being man, state that from that very moment she like dicks. Because of RAPE DAMN! And this was "OKAY", because this Vn was "SO GOOD AND REALISTIC!!", yes?. I still remember this topics on magazines. Why you don't speak about Ladykiller and removal shit, locuas642? And you all. Are you all absolutely okay with that, because dev of this VN, Ladykiller, don't said something, that can be what may not coincide with your opinion? It's like that, yeah? And heartbeat don't even have something transphobic in it. Ah, i forggot... Tolerance only about that - "You can say anything as long as it agrees with my opinion. Or you'll be blamed like something-phobic". Just because this girl don't wanna have sex wish someone, like men. Maybe she is lesbian. Because she thinks somehow diffirent, does not give you the right to stigmatize her like "-phobic'.Deal wish that and stop cry about every single thing that can harm you, because you THINKS that a right thing. If this game would be removed, i'm done. So fucking done with hypocrisy of some people, who just can't ignore something, that don't have to do with them. I'M LESBIAN AND I'M LIVE IN ONE OF THE MOST LGBT-PHOBIC COUNTRY. AND I'M NOT CRY ABOUT THAT. I'M DEAL WITH THAT EVERY SINGLE FUCKING DAY, EVEN WITH MY PARENTS, WHO WANTS GRANDCHILDREN. So. Try to blame me with something "phobic".
Fuck this tread. Hanako, you can hit me with banhammer. I'm done with this.

so i think there is an argument for the idea that the 41% was incidental, but it's a hell of a coincidence given the tweet thread in which the developer's girlfriend previously did, explicitly, state that trans women can't be lesbians and has doubled down on her own terms, making fun of people who take issue with that stance. i'm not personally familiar with ladykiller or the things that go on in it, but there might actually *be* an argument that it's worth a similar interrogation to what heartbeat's getting. there's a broad discourse around heartbeat right now, however, that doesn't exist for ladykiller. maybe there SHOULD be one! but that has to be taken up on its own terms.

i sympathize with the struggles you're voicing here, but your response to that shouldn't be to say that since you put up with it, others should too. i have other lesbian friends in russia and i know there's some horrific stuff that goes down over there! but you shouldn't have to put up with that - nobody should be expected to put up with homophobia and transphobia. we're only going to be able to seriously fight against these issues if we express solidarity, not by tearing each other down. nikotine wasn't "just expressing an opinion" when she said trans lesbians are just men who fetishize lesbians - she was expressing an ideology that actively harms trans people. as for genital preference, which seems to keep coming up, i think that's a topic all of its own, as i expressed previously - but it shouldn't be used to deflect from the concerns with trans lesbians being actively invalidated and castigated as delusional. that kind of thing just isn't acceptable, any more than it should be acceptable for anyone to say that a lesbian just needs to find the right man, or that any of us - from any walk of life - are just suffering from a mental disorder. that de-legitimizes us, and we shouldn't be putting up with it.

[Hanako Games]

Curator listings are about the content in the game and as limited as possible.

External information is meant to be shared in either comments on the content roundup or discussion topics like this, which is why every curator review links back to the discussion area.

The 41% was almost certainly a coincidence simply because most developers cannot do the math to figure out what a combination of discounts is going to be. They discounted the base game 35% - the 41% number is a result of that combining with the base bundle discount on the soundtrack. It isn't even 41% in all countries, it's 42% in mine! Because the math works out slightly differently.

If they'd been deliberately trying to send a message with the number, surely they would have discounted the base game.

To the best of my knowledge it is true that the developers are anti-trans, it's just that this one specific detail is probably incorrect.

[rincewind]

If we can delist games, I want all the Dharker games delisted too.

Just saying... those devs are super jerks. Like grade SSS jerks!