Gridders for beginners

[WaKa]

To be honest, I never played too many gridders, I like the system and the few I played are awesome, but I never completed one from start to end, the ones I have played are: Wizardry: Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord (The Nes version, I have to go back to it some day) Kyuuyaku Megami Tensei (gridder + pokemon with demons = Awesome) and recently Zavix Tower (lots of potential, and the reason I'm asking this question)

Are there any Gridder recommended for beginners? The difficulty doesn't matter (As long as it's not Wizardry IV levels of difficulty) and I can play almost anything, so something from the 90s shouldn't give me too many problems

[ashi]

I'd be glad to help! but first, which platforms do you own?

[WaKa]

Well, I got a NDS, but thanks to the wonders of the internet, I can play almost anything, Nes, Snes, Psx, Psp, etc.

For the PC, mine is kinda old, so it's better if it doesn't need a powerful computer, and like I said, I don't have many problems with very old games

[Dr.Disaster]

When asking for a beginners' gridder there is prolly nothing better than the good old grand daddy Dungeon Master himself. The first few levels are just there to introduce the player to mechanics and stuff.

Here is everything to set you up: http://dmweb.free.fr/?q=node/310

[khyeron]

I really hated Dungeon Master, mostly because I couldn't roll my own characters. Could still mod the guys you got in the downstairs canisters, but still... eh well. Game itself wasn't as lovingly playable as Grimrock 1/2 are now, especially with a SNES controller, but that's life.

If you want DS games, Etrian Odyssey is excellent. And if you prefer PC... Grimrock. Both 1 and 2 are EXCELLENT...

Might & Magic (the NES version) was fantastic, and much more approachable than the SNES version and the first three on the PC.

If you have the original or buy the World Of Xeen (takes two games installed to make the full version enabled) you're in for an absolute treat. I still have the DOS disks for WOX and the New World Computing papers and notepad that came with it. Man I miss NWC and some of the old epic developer houses (Bullfrog, Shiny.... sigh.)

Paper Sorcerer is pretty easy to get into, as well and its very modern and has a cool look. However I cannot emphasize enough NOT to play it on anything but Normal or Easy until you've gotten the ropes. Hard... is not playable with just "any" party. Until you know what works, and what doesn't... Hard is Hard. The first boss is literally your clue. If you cannot beat him with your party on Hard, you should pick a different party makeup, or you will not survive the rest of the game at all.

[UncleYar]

Lands of Lore: Throne of Chaos is great and a favorite of many people here, kind of a slightly simpler Dungeon Master/Eye of the Beholder with actual good pixel graphics, voiceover and a story. You can buy it on https://www.gog.com/game/lands_of_lore_1_2

I'm not sure it's a good beginner's pick, but since you have some Wizardry experience I think you'd enjoy Wizardry VI, the first game of the last Wizardry trilogy. The RPG mechanics and combat are great, just don't expect the story and world to make much sense or to be very detailed. I personally played through a fan-translated SNES version: http://www.romhacking.net/translations/939/ - it looks/sounds better in my opinion, but you can't transfer your save to the next game if you use this. Play the PC version to do the latter.

Legend of Grimrock and Might and Magic X Legacy would make good beginner picks, but they require a pretty beefy computer, especially the latter.

Also the old Gold Box games (https://www.gog.com/game/forgotten_realms_the_archives_collection_two) starting with Pool of Radiance have a great reputation. Haven't personally played them yet, but it seems that if you can get into them you have massive amounts of quality gaming ahead of you.

[khyeron]

I concur with the gold box dos games.

Pools of Darkness --- Holds a dear spot for back when Zhentil keep was even scarier than the Red Army in the 80's. Nowadays Putin is scarier than Cyric, Cyric is too measured and not nearly as heavy handed and psychotic as Bane once was. Hell, the game begins with what amounts to a nuclear strike on pretty much every good or neutral/good-ish town in the area... complete with CRATERS left behind. Magic nuclear strike but still... big studios these days are so afraid of stereotyping and offending that stuff like that will never again happen in our politically correct society. And that's just the beginning. You get to SOLVE the how and why, and who and all that jazz. And the who, is not going to just leave you clues and help you along. Hell no, you will EARN it. (Or get ambushed by Cloud Giants while you camp.)

Matrix Cubed --- This game was a futuristic Buck Rogers universe (very rich and detailed world with some pretty plausible stuff overall) taking D&D to its logical "future D&D engine" conclusion. The skills and such were implemented into 3rd edition D&D, but not nearly as well as they were in the Buck Rogers' verse. Very recommended, and also VERY TOUGH. You will die if you fail to prepare, and you won't be able to blame the RNG, either. Proper party, and more importantly proper supplies will make or break you. Vehicles, weapons, medics, etc... all make appearances.

Gateway to the Savage Frontier --- Absolutely awesome, but a low lvl cap, so munchkins won't be happy. The Savage Frontier brought us Moander Spawn (Shambling Mounds) and the ever treasured Wands of Defoliation. Treasure those things, or every battle will be a curb stomp battle and TPK. And even with those wands, at the level cap in the Gateway game... phew, you'll earn your victories. And Krevish. Nerdiest fighter character portrait ever seen in a D&D game, where Ahnuld muscles and Chainmail bikinis with epic cleavage were the norm for heroic types.

Oh, one thing, on the Nintendo Might & Magic 1, the enemy spells are largely broken. Several spells just flat out do not work, or the party is too resistent. Then again, thank your lucky stars when Banshees cast some random spell that just "didn't work" on every party member. Especially if you decided to take a side trip to the strength fountain before saving. (Hint, save. Save often. You're always just one or two bad chest traps away from the game over screen. These were tough games, death wasn't just a free teleport to town like it is in modern MMOs.)

Ahhhh.... the good old days. In another post I lamented the loss of Bullfrog, Shiny, and New World Computing. I'll gladly raise a cup to our friends at the original Lord British Origin (not the EA abomination they've become after the Monarch was ousted by the board) and Sir-Tech, Westwood and SSI. Man I miss these old masters, but maybe they ascended so new masters could learn the craft and reach for the cup, eh? Grimrock is certainly proof of this, and they may even have set the bar a little too high...

Edit: I forgot Sierra. How could I forget Sierra?

[WaKa]

Thanks for your replies, I will give a try Dungeon Master, and if I don't like it, I'll play Might & Magic for the Nes, which I have tried before but never did a "serious" playtrough

I will keep Etrian Odyssey, Grimrock, and World of Xeen in mind, they seem to be pretty popular

What do you guys think about the other gridders for the Nes? IIRC there were quite a few, Wizardry, The Bard's Tale, Might & Magic, I even remeber playing one called Swords & Serpents, don't remember too much about though...

[khyeron]

Wizardry is EXTREMELY HARD. I was going to mention Swords and Serpents but I didn't want to get all over non Steam games. :D

S&S is much easier to get into than Wizardry, but is still a pretty hard game.

These were all awesome Nintendo Hard games. The broken spells in M&M are like all the non functioning "lock" spells and creature type affinity weapons in the first Final Fantasy (i.e. none of them worked, but they do in the new playstation remake, so its actually a lot of fun to devise new strategies around this.)

[Shackleton]

Blimey gents, I'm not sure half of those would qualify for 'beginner' gridders.

I'd agree on the Etrian Odyssey games for the DS, although personally I'm not a fan of their class system. I'd say skip 1 and go to either two or three, they've got some quality of life improvements that help with the busywork and they seem a bit better balanced.

Paper sorceror I played and enjoyed, but it's very simple (compared to most blobbers) and short.

Swords and Sorcery: Underworld is good and contains a lot of features in common with the old-school gridders.

My pick for a beginner would be Might and Magic X though. It won't turn you off with dated graphics, it's not got any obtuse game mechanics you'll find out about 10 hours in that'll make you want to reroll your party and it's pretty well balanced (iirc) for most parties.

If you feel really brave and don't mind the 'designed for controller' interface, Elminage Gothic is probably the best PC gridder on Steam imo, if not one of the best I've played. Some of the dungeon design is really good and the combat can be brutal, which I always find a plus in gridders.

[Hippyshake]

Great thread. For people who just want to get a feel for the genre without a bunch of micromanagment, I'd second Paper Sorceror (although it can be buggy). I'd also recommend Shining In The Darkness as a really easy start to the genre (even moreso, if you pick it up on sale in a Classic Pack).

[Unbeugsam]

Ah nice, there some guys here who knows the old "Might and Magic" titels. Yes, that´s the good old time but for me i prefered "Clouds of Xeen" and "Darkside of Xeen" together as "World of Xeen". I guess for this time it was a revolution to combine two titles and lock off areas in the game witch are unreachable before...

[Edward Von Worms]

A mod called realms of chaos, has dungeon master 1 and 2 and an extra fan made campaign, works on modern systems even the audio is dm2, Dungeon master 2 is still one of my favourite games of all time, try robbing the shop for a laugh and when you meet the thief for the first time, mine!! :)