My first experience (and issues) with Windowed Borderless Gaming (please read)

[isRuskiGirl?]

So, when I found out that you play games in fullscreen borderless mode and eliminate both tearing and input lag (vsync), I was pretty excited about the prospect. I soon found this community and the program that it revolves around. However, there's some strange oddities that really bothers me.

The game that I've been testing the WBG program with is the classic Quake II.

The oddities:

1#

Forcing the game into borderless window using the default generated WBG Quake II profile makes the game full screen borderless and eliminates tearing, however, it seems to be pushing the top part of the screen down and cuts of pixel at the bottom of the screen. So, the result is not quite 'fullscreen' borderless, but 'close' to fullscreen borderless.

I've illustrated this issue with the picture below.

http://i.imgur.com/OE3rew2.jpg

Normal fullscreen view:

http://i.imgur.com/CA1BSNz.jpg

2#

Adjusting the WBG's default made Quake II profile to the native window resolution of my monitor (1680x1050) used in Quake II actually fixes oddity 1#, however, the screen tearing is now back. And, yes, the game actually seem to be in true fullscreen borderless mode at this point (as tested by alt-tapping) The only issue, as said, is that the screen tears like it was in normal fullscreen mode.

3#

If I alternatively, and just to experiment, try to set the default made WBG Quake II profile to the resolution of '1680x1049' then there's no screen tearing, and the screen is actually much closer to true borderless fullscreen than the default profile, however, the Window taskbar will now be superimposed on the game. That is, the game is not on top.

So, in conclusion, I don't know actually know which part of these odities in caused by Quake II, and what could be caused by WBG itself. Maybe somebody can help shread some light on it? Thank you.

[Gameplay Crush]

#2 is how it's supposed to be setup.
Technically windowed programs should never cause screen tearing, due to all kinds of technical reason i dont care to understand, and i don't care what all the tech wizzards say, fact is sometimes some programs just do exactly that.
It's rare, but i found the only "fix" with this issue is to limit the framerate to whatever your monitor supports minus 1

PS: i seen it only happen with really old games.

[isRuskiGirl?]

I should quickly add that I've edited my post and provided the actual in-game screnshots to properly illustrate my points (I simply found out how to do it). I'll actually read your reply now. :p

[isRuskiGirl?]

Originally posted by Gameplay Crush:

#2 is how it's supposed to be setup.
Technically windowed programs should never cause screen tearing, due to all kinds of technical reason i dont care to understand, and i don't care what all the tech wizzards say, fact is sometimes some programs just do exactly that.
It's rare, but i found the only "fix" with this issue is to limit the framerate to whatever your monitor supports minus 1

PS: i seen it only happen with really old games.

That is really strange. That is, a windowed program causing screen tearing if it shouldn't really be possible. It just seems really strange to me how it can come down to a simple pixel line. As said, '1680x1049', or even '1679x1050', doesn't cause any tearing, only exactly '1650x1050' does.

About your solution, I didn't quite understand it. I can set my refresh rate in-game to '60', and force the max frame rate with Nvidia Inspector to '59', however, it doesn't really cahnge anything. Did I misunderstand something?

Edit:

This is a screenshot of '1919x1080' set in WBG (in-game still 1920x1080). I've changed PC, and that's why it's now a 16/9 resolution that I'm refering to. Notice the simple pixel line that's not rendered at the right side. On this PC, the Windows taskbar actually isn't superimposed while using this custom resolution in WBG. I don't know what makes the difference, but maybe because this PC is running Window 8 and the other Windows 7, or maybe it's because this PC has an Nvidia card instead of a ATI card of the other PC. I'll might test this out more, though.

Anyhow, on this PC at least, this is the best solution that I've found so far. One pixel line short of perfection.

http://i.imgur.com/K88haPR.jpg

Edit2:

I've found what makes the difference. If I start Quake II in fullscreen, but then apply the custom resolution in WBG, while the game is still running in fullsceen, the game will 'hop' to the top screen priority and the taskbar is then hidden. Kinda strange, but it works.

I'm sorry if I have you throughly confused at this point.

[isRuskiGirl?]

New update, I tried another program called 'Borderless Window Tool', and with this tool Quake II actually works in perfect borderless fullscreen window without any screen tearing. The conclusion seem to be that WBG just doesn't support this title perfectly then. The whole thing is really strange, though. I can only suggest that the dev(s) try to get a copy of Quake II and then test it out themselves. Btw, MoHAA have the same issue with WBG, I found. It might be based on the same engine, but I'm not totally sure.

[isRuskiGirl?]

Another new update (if anybody is actually interrested?), as I said, using 'Borderless Window Tool' (and newly tested 'BorderlessGaming6.5'), I've been able to run Quake II in perfect borderless fullscreen, unlike WBG's current integration which causes screen tearing.

However, I found out that this is only true on my machine #1 which has an Nvidia card in it (560 TI). On my other machine #2, which has an ATI card (4890 HD), non of these two other programs work perfectly. The issue is the same, there's screen tearing in borderless mode.

So, what's going on? What is the reason? Well, I think it might have something to do with Aero Peek. As you know, having Aero Peek turned off, and you'll get screen tearing even in non-boderless, non-fullscreen mode. What I think is happening is that Aero Peek can become disabled when entering fullscreen, borderless mode. Why this is happening with WBG and not the two other tested programs when using a Nvidia card, I don't know. I'm not actually sure it's the graphics card that makes the difference, but that's my best bet, atm. I'm going to try and confirm it, though.

Any other insights? Advice to try out? Anything?

[Gameplay Crush]

Do you mean Aero as opposed to Aero peek?
Either way neither are disabled in windowed borderless mode.
PS: i never have Aero turned on while gaming rig (im using the classic theme) and never have tearing issuess asside from a few old games.

[isRuskiGirl?]

Originally posted by Gameplay Crush:

Do you mean Aero as opposed to Aero peek?
Either way neither are disabled in windowed borderless mode.
PS: i never have Aero turned on while gaming rig (im using the classic theme) and never have tearing issuess asside from a few old games.

Hi, again Gameplay Crush. I have just found a working solution for my PC with the ATI card with WGB! In WBG's Qauke II profile I set the resolution to 1 extra pixel in either the height or the length. And whola, no more screen tearing in fullscreen borderless window. This is great! Anyhow, what does setting the resolution higher in WBG even do? I do understand what setting the res lower in BWG does, just not higher. The solution doesn't seem to stretch the image which I was afraid of.


''Do you mean Aero as opposed to Aero peek?''

I actually don't know the difference. I just know that when you run the classic theme then there's also no tearing control in windowed programs. I thought it was the Aero/Aero peek thingy, but probably not then. Like, I used to run in classic, too, but when using the Dolphin Emulator I found that I'd get tearing even with Vsync on, or maybe Vsync doesn't work without whatever running in classic disables.

[Gameplay Crush]

Well you can always leave V-Sync off in windowed, as it can't work.
Probably why you get tearing and i don't is because you got a better pc and get much better frame-rates then.
Wish i got better frame-rates in Dolphin :-( i wanna play MGS: twin snakes lol
Oh well i really should get a new rig anyways.
resizing doesn't do anything on WBG side then changing the window's size, how that impacts the game depends entirely on the game engine, most commonly the game will either stretch or resize properly, some game engines will add black borders.
How adding a extra pixel solves your issue is beyond me, but I'm glad it does.
The diffrence between the 2 pc's you tested on might be a driver setting in the GPU's control panel.

[isRuskiGirl?]

Okay I see, thanks for explaining. It's strange, yes, but there it is. Well, I just pretty much play Smash Bros Brawl by Dolphin for LAN parties. With my non-overcloked i5-3450 it actually runs extremely well, although I'm still on 4.0-3232-x64 because I experienced slowdowns on the lasted build. I only played MGS1 on the PS1, but I remember that game as being something special.

Anyhow, I did try adjusting all kinds of setting in both my Nvidia and ATI control panels, but so far I haven't found anything. It could also be a Window thing, who knows. I'll test it out on other PCs when I get the opportunity.

[isRuskiGirl?]

Originally posted by Gameplay Crush:

@Gameplay Crush

Okay, so this is about another matter. I wanted to see if I could get MoHAA to run in fullscreen borderless window, however, with a 4/3 resolution. The reason is that MoHAA doesn't support proper widescreen with matching fov in multiplayer without streching the image. The main reason is to eliminate tearing, of course. What I found is that the game, or BWG, adds a black border, but only to the one side of the screen.

It looks like this:

http://i.imgur.com/OLmrtda.jpg

It's actually not bad at all; it's just that I'd prefer to have the screen in the center of my monitor. My question is simply, is it possible to add an option for having a centered screen with black borders on either side instead of a single black border in borderless fullscreen? If this is controlled by the game then there's nothing to do about it, I realise.

[Gameplay Crush]

That's an easy one, that engine's viewpoint simply doesn't stretch/resize beyond it's original aspect ratio.
on 1080p 4:3 would be 1440x1080 so on 1050p it's probably 1400x1050
I've made a black background once for 4:3 games once if you like to use it http://steamcommunity.com/groups/WindowedBorderlessGaming/discussions/0/45350791305613203/#c41973820632712219
Dont forget to center your game window

[isRuskiGirl?]

Originally posted by Gameplay Crush:

That's an easy one, that engine's viewpoint simply doesn't stretch/resize beyond it's original aspect ratio.
on 1080p 4:3 would be 1440x1080 so on 1050p it's probably 1400x1050
I've made a black background once for 4:3 games once if you like to use it http://steamcommunity.com/groups/WindowedBorderlessGaming/discussions/0/45350791305613203/#c41973820632712219
Dont forget to center your game window

This solution works! Thank you. I don't know if it'd possible to integrate this solution more elegently and into BWG itself, but it works, and that's the most important part, afterall.

About 1440x1080 and 1400x1050, you know, it's funny how most people don't know that your moderen display has more than a single native resolution. Well, 'native' as in other resolutions that has proper scalling on it. But it makes sense when you have to add them manually and such.

[Gameplay Crush]

I dont think any monitor would ever support those 2 resolutions :-p
my monitor supports 20 resolutions in a colordepth of 32 and a 60Hz refreshrate of wich only 4 the native aspect ration.
640x480 (4:3)
720x480 (3:2)
720x576 (5:4)
800x600 (4:3)
1024x768 (4:3)
1152x648 (16:9)
1280x720 (16:9)
1280x768 (5:3)
1280x800 (8:5)
1280x960 (4:3)
1280x1024 (5:4)
1360x768 (85:48)
1360x1024 (85:64)
1366x768 (683:384)
1400x1050 (4:3)
1440x900 (8:5)
1600x900 (16:9)
1680x1050 (8:5)
1776x1000 (222:125)
1920x1080 (16:9)

[isRuskiGirl?]

Originally posted by Gameplay Crush:

@Gameplay Crush

I have another question, why exactly is the Blackie2 program not hiding the start button in Windows 7?

http://i.imgur.com/PCd227R.png

In Windows 8 the Windows UI is complete hidden which is perfect for 4/3 resolutions in fullscreen borderless window, so why not in Windows 7, too? It's quite annoying. :)

[isRuskiGirl?]

I've solved the issue myself. For others having the same issue, there's a free program called 'Taskbar Eliminator' which can hide the UI completely on Win7 and Win8. It's also a portable installation and very easy to use. You still need 'Blackie2', of course.