Someone made a game list with more or less woke aspects (possibility of being a troll)

[Delweynes]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1AVTZPJij5PQmlWAkYdDahBrxDiwqWMGsWEcEnpdKTa4/htmlview#gid=0

Caption:
- Blue=no wokeness detected
- Yellow=some aspects that could be woke related
- Red=woke game OR caricatural far-right vision of things

Edit:
After further inspection, I don't agree with his definition of what is woke or not. I think it's too extreme.
I still leave the post if, for any reason or motive, some players are interested by his informations.
Freedom of choice and no censorship is my philosophy.

[tyl0413]

Its from another curator, its a completely useless list with like 70% of the games included releasing before wokeness was even invented, then the rest is just thrown in the same tier as Dustborn for having gay characters or smth. Yes clearly there is not difference between literal government funded propaganda so bad and blatant people think its a parody made by anti-woke people and Tekken 8/Street Figher 6/Elden Ring is woke now too/COD/Morrowind became woke too out of nowhere/Portal/likely at least 70% of anything you've ever loved is downvoted on this. Ironically enough Life is Strange which was one of the earlier games some people complained about at the time is only mildly woke according to this so you're better off playing it than any of the games I mentioned above among many other classics.
Still its a great anti-woke chart as it exactly proves all the wokies wrong, gaming was always diverse before the industry was infiltrated by a bunch of talentless actually bigoted hacks its just sad they are not infact the only group who has a serious issue with this fact. Thats why I dont expect politicization of games to go anywhere, they're a "serious" medium now like movies and books so they shall be used as propaganda vechicle too by people who couldn't give less of a shit about games themselves, even if the wokeness dies down a bit other groups will seek to use their very effective tactics for their own benefit at the detriment of actual gamers.

[Sunsetter]

Originally posted by tyl0413:

Its from another curator, its a completely useless list with like 70% of the games included releasing before wokeness was even invented, .

I really dislike when people do this; I wouldnt list anything before 2014-15.
The only exception would be games that got updated later to include woke crap.

[tyl0413]

Originally posted by Samael:

Originally posted by tyl0413:

Its from another curator, its a completely useless list with like 70% of the games included releasing before wokeness was even invented, .

I really dislike when people do this; I wouldnt list anything before 2014-15.
The only exception would be games that got updated later to include woke crap.

Oh he tried to pull the "but wokism existed before there was a term for it!" card, no it literally didn't, stop projecting.
Just call it my 90s boomer dad approves list (would have to downvote violence too then) at that point because this is exactly the kind of behavior that gives ammo to the "you just want to eliminate the gays" crowd and I personally think they should have none and especially I wouldn't want to be the one giving it to them yet these people fail to realize this.
Not that its only about optics, if you genuinely are gonna complain about the existence of female leads/gays/sexuality/what have you in media then I think you've genuinely lost the plot just as much as the wokies have, idk how to phrase it any nicer (ik some of these people are reading).

This is why I'm not expecting anything to improve even when all the wokes go broke from the game industry, we may very well get the moral busy bodies of the past to make a comeback and there'll be unironically people who will cheer it on not knowing any better, if you're not completely disconnected from some more mainstream parts of the internet yet you can already see some of this unfolding.

[› Furin]

Originally posted by tyl0413:

Its from another curator, its a completely useless list with like 70% of the games included releasing before wokeness was even invented

It's hard to take your "criticism" seriously when it's factually inaccurate.

Yes clearly there is not difference between literal government funded propaganda so bad and blatant people think its a parody made by anti-woke people and Tekken 8/Street Figher 6/Elden Ring is woke now too/COD/Morrowind became woke too out of nowhere

There is a clearly defined distinction between subtle vs overt, and all games have explanations for why they are reviewed the way they are.

gaming was always diverse before the industry was infiltrated by a bunch of talentless actually bigoted hacks its just sad they are not infact the only group who has a serious issue with this fact.

I think that proves our point more than yours. The themes have always been there, we're just pointing them out. They're given the "Woke" label because that is the contemporary terminology.

Oh he tried to pull the "but wokism existed before there was a term for it!" card, no it literally didn't, stop projecting.

That's not what is written in our methodology. It says these themes existed before the term "Woke" was used to describe them. We include older games so people can avoid these themes as they exist in older games too. Again, that's what the methodology says.

if you genuinely are gonna complain about the existence of female leads/gays/sexuality/what have you in media then I think you've genuinely lost the plot just as much as the wokies have

We're not complaining about anything. We're pointing out clearly defined themes, as defined by our methodology. In reference to this point, those themes relate to pro-LGBTQ+ and pro-DEI advocacy.

Those are both major policy agendas of the political left.

[tyl0413]

Originally posted by › Furin:

Originally posted by tyl0413:

Its from another curator, its a completely useless list with like 70% of the games included releasing before wokeness was even invented

It's hard to take your "criticism" seriously when it's factually inaccurate.

Yes clearly there is not difference between literal government funded propaganda so bad and blatant people think its a parody made by anti-woke people and Tekken 8/Street Figher 6/Elden Ring is woke now too/COD/Morrowind became woke too out of nowhere

There is a clearly defined distinction between subtle vs overt, and all games have explanations for why they are reviewed the way they are.

gaming was always diverse before the industry was infiltrated by a bunch of talentless actually bigoted hacks its just sad they are not infact the only group who has a serious issue with this fact.

I think that proves our point more than yours. The themes have always been there, we're just pointing them out. They're given the "Woke" label because that is the contemporary terminology.

Oh he tried to pull the "but wokism existed before there was a term for it!" card, no it literally didn't, stop projecting.

That's not what is written in our methodology. It says these themes existed before the term "Woke" was used to describe them. We include older games so people can avoid these themes as they exist in older games too. Again, that's what the methodology says.

if you genuinely are gonna complain about the existence of female leads/gays/sexuality/what have you in media then I think you've genuinely lost the plot just as much as the wokies have

We're not complaining about anything. We're pointing out clearly defined themes, as defined by our methodology. In reference to this point, those themes relate to pro-LGBTQ+ and pro-DEI advocacy.

Those are both major policy agendas of the political left.

1. Thats the problem, there isn't. How is Life is strange subtle considering the actual story (not that I personally disagree with that rating, I've actually played, found nothing wrong with it myself but based on your standards sure it deserves the subtle) but then you go on to say so many of these other games are overt just because they have a flag for your profile or body type selector that you never see again. That makes absolutely no sense no matter how you look at it. Dustborn is actual government funded propaganda but its gets the same rating as Tekken/Elden Ring/and ancient games especially for what, because they say body type or because you dislike the story? That rating system is even more broken than IGN's game review scores.

If I had to rerate them, Dustborn deserves its own exclusive tier for literal propaganda, past that Spider Man 2/SBI AAAs from the past years/all these cozy lgbt advertised indie games etc would go in overt because its impossible no matter what you think to play through these games without noticing it through the whole playthrough (thats what overt means doesnt it?) and everything else goes in subtle aka ignorable like a flag/char creator/etc.
2+3+4. Call it an anti-LGBT curator then, or right-perspective or my-dad-approves or whatever you prefer that is actually more specific because last I went on your forum your criteria is much closer to that than what woke actually means to people, but now that doesn't sound as nice and whatever now does it, but it would be honest at least.
Most people don't have a problem with the "themes" you keep talking about as you define them, they have a problem with an extremely specific forced modern version that has become popularized in the US in the past decade, thats what the overwhelming majority means when they say "woke" it's not for anything you dislike personally, you can use your Steam profiles reviews for that instead.
You can disagree with that definition all you want like I disagree with calling online searching "googling" but my personal opinion does not matter, when literally everyone else understands something different by the word, they're right and i'm wrong and If i want to talk with most people I'm just going to have to go with it and not be the assholes who goes "acktually i use ddg/brave/searx/bing/yandex/baidu", thats not convincing anyone, infact it does the opposite.
Read the second comment.

[› Furin]

First, let me say, thank you for providing some specific criticisms I can work with. I am actively trying to improve the group and its criteria so I do try to productively engage with those who disagree with us.

you go on to say so many of these other games are overt just because they have a flag for your profile or body type selector that you never see again.

On the flags, yes I think it is quite overt when left-wing partisan political imagery (pride flags) show up in games. On that point, WACGA seems to agree.

As for body type, it actually used to be considered subtle. But after a debate with some of our contributors on another site, I decided to change that to be included as overtly pro-LGBTQ+ as well.

Here's a quote from one of them:

It's an attempt to hijack language, and social norms by the Alphabet Mafia too.

Gender is newspeak nonsense, and 'body type' is part of this, maybe it's not the spearhead, but it's certainly part of it. Same garbage terms like 'CIS', and of course, in the case of BG3, letting female models have penises, and male models have vaginas. It is very clearly part of the woke movement, and anyone who thinks otherwise is completely out of touch with reality.

It might 'seem' more subtle, but anything with a 'body type' option, as opposed to simply Male or Female, is blatantly woke - and should be regarded as such. This is not something like occasional homosexuality in a game, or other deviancy, or perhaps [POC] where they shouldn't be, etc. This is a flagrant, and obvious expression of their attempt to steal and contrive language - it should be marked as such at all times.

That quote also relates somewhat to what you've written here:

Most people don't have a problem with the "themes" you keep talking about as you define them, they have a problem with an extremely specific forced modern version that has become popularized in the US in the past decade, thats what the overwhelming majority means when they say "woke"

Based on what? You make it seem like you speak for "the majority" but I see no evidence of that.

Furthermore, that's the entire reason I defined "Woke" on our methodology page. You have to formally describe a term before repeatedly using it in your work.

And again, I make it clear that if anyone disagrees with that definition, that person is free to make his/her opinion known so everyone in the group can discuss it.

Just to provide context for why our definition of "Woke" encompasses all those themes, I wrote it based on my understanding of US politics. Those are all policy positions associated with the far-left AKA the "Woke left."

it's not for anything you dislike personally, you can use your Steam profiles reviews for that instead.

I'm curious, what gave you the impression any of our reviews reflect what I personally like or dislike? You know nothing about me. It seems rather strange that you would assume our reviews in any way reflect my personal preferences - especially when our methodology explicitly encourages people who disagree with any one of our reviews to come debate them.

There are a number of discussions I've posted in where I've changed a review after someone made a compelling case to do so. Example from just a few hours ago: https://steamcommunity.com/groups/Woke_Content_Detector/discussions/1/4763207599008550903/

when literally everyone else understands something different by the word, they're right and i'm wrong

Again, I'm going to need some evidence on this one. Here's how the outlet Wokespy defines "Woke":

https://wokespy.com/woke/

And here's an excerpt:

At its core, Woke ideology manifests in radical policies and advocacy that challenge societal norms and institutions

I'm not sure how any of the themes we associate with "Woke" run afoul of that definition. Again, in reference to your statement above, do you not consider pro-LGBTQ+ and pro-DEI advocacy to be radical?

[CarnageInc.]

I'll agree that there should be a level to the not recommended for your woke group (which is informational and I don't agree with every review, I respect it).
I don't think elden ring should be in the same not recommended list as dustborn etc.
Maybe have 3-4 tier system to the not recommended?

[Gamer92612]

Originally posted by CarnageInc.:

I'll agree that there should be a level to the not recommended for your woke group (which is informational and I don't agree with every review, I respect it).
I don't think Elden ring should be in the same not recommended list as dustborn etc.
Maybe have 3-4 tier system to the not recommended?

I'm not sure if he has played through all of those games on the list.
I've played through Wo Long: Fallen Dynasty(500 hours), Elden Ring(110 hours).
I really don't see anything LGBTQ in Wo Long except for the stupid body types which was literally copied from Elden Ring. Elden Ring definitely has more gender-related contents which I would consider somewhat weird but not as woke as games like Forspoken, Suicide Squad or Concord. (I'd admit my understanding of those 3 come from the Internet as I never actually played those games.) I suspect some of the comments on the list also come from other sources that may not be first-hand... So it's a good reference but cannot be used as the only source.

[tyl0413]

Originally posted by › Furin:

First, let me say, thank you for providing some specific criticisms I can work with. I am actively trying to improve the group and its criteria so I do try to productively engage with those who disagree with us.

you go on to say so many of these other games are overt just because they have a flag for your profile or body type selector that you never see again.

On the flags, yes I think it is quite overt when left-wing partisan political imagery (pride flags) show up in games. On that point, WACGA seems to agree.

As for body type, it actually used to be considered subtle. But after a debate with some of our contributors on another site, I decided to change that to be included as overtly pro-LGBTQ+ as well.

Here's a quote from one of them:

It's an attempt to hijack language, and social norms by the Alphabet Mafia too.

Gender is newspeak nonsense, and 'body type' is part of this, maybe it's not the spearhead, but it's certainly part of it. Same garbage terms like 'CIS', and of course, in the case of BG3, letting female models have penises, and male models have vaginas. It is very clearly part of the woke movement, and anyone who thinks otherwise is completely out of touch with reality.

It might 'seem' more subtle, but anything with a 'body type' option, as opposed to simply Male or Female, is blatantly woke - and should be regarded as such. This is not something like occasional homosexuality in a game, or other deviancy, or perhaps [POC] where they shouldn't be, etc. This is a flagrant, and obvious expression of their attempt to steal and contrive language - it should be marked as such at all times.

That quote also relates somewhat to what you've written here:

Most people don't have a problem with the "themes" you keep talking about as you define them, they have a problem with an extremely specific forced modern version that has become popularized in the US in the past decade, thats what the overwhelming majority means when they say "woke"

Based on what? You make it seem like you speak for "the majority" but I see no evidence of that.

Furthermore, that's the entire reason I defined "Woke" on our methodology page. You have to formally describe a term before repeatedly using it in your work.

And again, I make it clear that if anyone disagrees with that definition, that person is free to make his/her opinion known so everyone in the group can discuss it.

Just to provide context for why our definition of "Woke" encompasses all those themes, I wrote it based on my understanding of US politics. Those are all policy positions associated with the far-left AKA the "Woke left."

it's not for anything you dislike personally, you can use your Steam profiles reviews for that instead.

I'm curious, what gave you the impression any of our reviews reflect what I personally like or dislike? You know nothing about me. It seems rather strange that you would assume our reviews in any way reflect my personal preferences - especially when our methodology explicitly encourages people who disagree with any one of our reviews to come debate them.

There are a number of discussions I've posted in where I've changed a review after someone made a compelling case to do so. Example from just a few hours ago: https://steamcommunity.com/groups/Woke_Content_Detector/discussions/1/4763207599008550903/

when literally everyone else understands something different by the word, they're right and i'm wrong

Again, I'm going to need some evidence on this one. Here's how the outlet Wokespy defines "Woke":

https://wokespy.com/woke/

And here's an excerpt:

At its core, Woke ideology manifests in radical policies and advocacy that challenge societal norms and institutions

I'm not sure how any of the themes we associate with "Woke" run afoul of that definition. Again, in reference to your statement above, do you not consider pro-LGBTQ+ and pro-DEI advocacy to be radical?

How I would rate:
Not recommended - Overt - The game is impossible to play through without noticing the modern forced woke topics such as identity politics ex. Forspoken/Concord/Spider Man 2/etc, the games quality is objectively downgraded due to their inclusion
informational - Subtle - Such as flags/body type/etc, things you roll your eyes at when you see them and clearly know why they were included but also once you get past it once you'll never have to see it again and can just enjoy the game ex. newer japanese AAA games like Elden Ring/Tekken/etc.
You can say its not the most reliable way to track it and sure, the curators follower numbers speak for themselves which definitions more people seem to align with, I mean take the extremely successful SBIDetected, they barely have any reviews because they go above and beyond to only include games which are overtly woke to everyone, meanwhile yours is the exact opposite including tons of games that no one would find woke and this is reflected in the numbers. Also based on my personal experience which sure is biased as im sure I don't exactly hang around the same circles as you do by choice.

What does pro-LGBTQ+/DEI mean to you? To me its stuff like being preachy and obnoxious, pushing the pronouns, gender abolitionism (body type/androgyny), identity politics (chars whole identity is their gender, bad writing all around that), you know all the stuff that was invented within the last decade basically. Meanwhile to me it looks like your definition is having anything that deviates from straight in any way, having the option for gay romance in old RPGs gets a downvote, anything even slightly sexually suggestive in a japanese games gets a downvote.

Look at it more through a consumer advocacy perspective rather than an ideological one (which is what I think you're doing). Like the addition of DRM, actual wokeness can not improve a game it very much can damage it however. Just like with DRM I don't hate it because I want to pirate but because its disrespectful towards the paying consumer to offer them an objectively worse product and as a paying customer I think thats a ripoff, I don't hate wokeness because I have a problem with the inclusion and representation of gays or your regular leftist or what have you, I have a problem with these very far gone ideologs who know and care nothing for gaming, that just shovel out very low quality games because they focus all their time on checking all the boxes and writing a cringe unbelievable stories instead of making innovative gameplay or story that anyone outside of their little bubble can understand and take seriously. I'm just a gamer and I want good games to play, theres is no pattern around the basic inclusion of a gay character and such as has been done for over 20 years being detrimental to the game (unless you're very ideologically opposed to it and instantly get triggered when presented the option which I think is a you problem, stats show LGBT acceptance was higher before wokeness exactly because most people only have a problem with the forced modern bs not "the gays") but there very much is a pattern around games that are woke and also just happen to be shit games even when you try to ignore the wokeness.
Curators in this case are also products that help people make more informed purchasing decisions, the numbers show which curators actually help people which is my point about the widely accepted definition of woke.

Legit just rename your group as Oldschool-right-wing-approved or whatever, in that case I wouldn't even need to say anything was it clearly marked, you're free to make it and i'm free to not follow it as are most people because it turns out gamers are not concerened about "the gays corrupting america" or what have you, they're concerned about avoiding shit games which your curator is not good for in its current state in the slightest.
Generally many don't like real world issues being preached in their entertainment and escapism, I play games to get away from that, I'm a gamer not an american culture warrior, I just notice that there are people who are the opposite who wish to use games as a disposable vehicle for their other goals. Telling me I can not have access to certain entertainment because some deem it problematic due to their beliefs (like right wing americans have tried for decades) also falls in this same camp of politicizing entertainment for no good reason and is just as repulsive as when modern leftists wish they had the power to prevent Hogwarts or Wukang from existing.

Thats my problem, that "wokeness" is a legitimate issue in the gaming industry that every gamer should be concerned about but there seem to be forming a smaller ingroup within who don't actually care about the actual issue, have anterior motives and just infiltrate a legitimate group and divert its resources away. Similarly how far-leftists exploited LGBT people for their own personal gain while setting acceptance back by decades.
I don't wanna hear how supposedly some of the best games ever made are suddenly shit now just because america has fallen, how objectively anti-woke games that the wokies are trying their hardest to cancel every day like various japanese games have suddenly something wrong with them, dont go off in my DMs about trump when I've been completely transparent about my thoughts im not a "fencesitter" just to avoid getting banned, if you're not a gamer despite claiming to be remove me, shouldn't have added me in the first place, no I don't want to subscribe to your bible study channel for the exact same reason I'm don't wanna go on your second patreon to order diy hrt, if these are the things you're truly passionate about first and foremost just focus on them and quit grifting off gaming just because its popular and profitable.

Now im sorry I went off towards the end there, don't take anything that doesn't actually apply to you, I really hate to have to be the one to say it but someones gotta do it and if no one else will I have to, as there is clout to be gained and money to be made there have been a ton of bad actors in these anti-woke spaces recently and I'm tired of it.
I just want my good games back without all this bs but I don't think they're coming back, I don't want to change the world nor do I have the resources to do so which leaves that to those who do with different goal..

[› Furin]

What does pro-LGBTQ+/DEI mean to you? To me its stuff like being preachy and obnoxious, pushing the pronouns, gender abolitionism (body type/androgyny), identity politics (chars whole identity is their gender, bad writing all around that), you know all the stuff that was invented within the last decade basically. Meanwhile to me it looks like your definition is having anything that deviates from straight in any way, having the option for gay romance in old RPGs gets a downvote, anything even slightly sexually suggestive in a japanese games gets a downvote.

You seem to associate "Woke" with only the most extreme and obvious examples.

Here's that excerpt from Wokespy's definition of "Woke" again:

At its core, Woke ideology manifests in radical policies and advocacy that challenge societal norms and institutions

In the US, it is a societal norm to be heterosexual. Furthermore, the institutional norm regarding marriage is that it is between a man and a woman.

Demographic data regarding LGBTQ+ representation in the US:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/719674/american-adults-who-identify-as-homosexual-bisexual-or-transgender/
https://news.gallup.com/poll/389792/lgbt-identification-ticks-up.aspx

Data on same-sex marriage:
https://news.gallup.com/poll/212702/lgbt-adults-married-sex-spouse.aspx
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/11/15/about-six-in-ten-americans-say-legalization-of-same-sex-marriage-is-good-for-society/

informational - Subtle - Such as flags/body type/etc, things you roll your eyes at when you see them and clearly know why they were included but also once you get past it once you'll never have to see it again and can just enjoy the game ex. newer japanese AAA games like Elden Ring/Tekken/etc.

The things you roll your eyes at now were not acceptable just 20 years ago. Give these people an inch and they take a mile. How many inches are you going to give them?

You can say its not the most reliable way to track it and sure, the curators follower numbers speak for themselves which definitions more people seem to align with, I mean take the extremely successful SBIDetected, they barely have any reviews because they go above and beyond to only include games which are overtly woke to everyone, meanwhile yours is the exact opposite including tons of games that no one would find woke and this is reflected in the numbers. Also based on my personal experience which sure is biased as im sure I don't exactly hang around the same circles as you do by choice.

I'd say that's not a fair comparison. SBID was about as popular as our group is now before they blew up extremely quickly because of leftist backlash on social media and a resulting Streisand effect.

Also based on my personal experience which sure is biased as im sure I don't exactly hang around the same circles as you do by choice.

I'm not sure what you're referring to here. You don't know who I hang out with and I don't know who you hang out with so this seems like a non-sequitur.

Look at it more through a consumer advocacy perspective rather than an ideological one (which is what I think you're doing).

Again I refer to Wokespy's definition of "Woke" which they call an ideology.

Look, I get where you're coming from, but "Woke" is a political term that refers to a political ideology.

I don't hate wokeness because I have a problem with the inclusion and representation of gays or your regular leftist or what have you, I have a problem with these very far gone ideologs who know and care nothing for gaming, that just shovel out very low quality games because they focus all their time on checking all the boxes and writing a cringe unbelievable stories instead of making innovative gameplay or story that anyone outside of their little bubble can understand and take seriously.

That's your opinion, and that's fine. But don't make it seem like "everyone" or "most people" agree with your opinion.

At this point, we've been beaten over the head by leftist propaganda in media for so long that people like me are tired of seeing it at all. Our tolerance has now reached zero.

It sounds to me like you have a higher tolerance for these things, and that's fine. Our list operates on a zero-tolerance basis.

Curators in this case are also products that help people make more informed purchasing decisions

That is quite literally what we are doing. We are pointing out themes in games with the intent of informing people which games have them.

they're concerned about avoiding shit games which your curator is not good for in its current state in the slightest.

Depends how you define "shit games."

Thats my problem, that "wokeness" is a legitimate issue in the gaming industry that every gamer should be concerned about but there seem to be forming a smaller ingroup within who don't actually care about the actual issue, have anterior motives and just infiltrate a legitimate group and divert its resources away.

I assure you, I have no ulterior motives for doing this. Unlike SBID, I don't ask people to donate money if they like our work. I don't have a Youtube channel like Kabrutus does.

I am making no money from this and never intend to. Like the people I oppose, I act based on ideology.

I don't wanna hear how supposedly some of the best games ever made are suddenly shit now just because america has fallen, how objectively anti-woke games that the wokies are trying their hardest to cancel every day like various japanese games have suddenly something wrong with them

We don't call any games "shit." Our methodology explicitly says we don't judge games based on whether they are "good" or "bad." We judge games based on the presence of leftist political themes i.e. "Woke" themes. Whether a game is "good" or "bad" is largely subjective and will differ from person to person. I trust everyone who views our list is capable of taking the information in our reviews into account while still making up their own minds based on their personal preferences.

Japanese games (and developers) are just as bad (arguably worse) than Western devs. There are multiple discussions on this very subject here in WACGA's discussions and in the comments.

I just want my good games back without all this bs but I don't think they're coming back, I don't want to change the world nor do I have the resources to do so which leaves that to those who do with different goal..

You can always browse our list of recommended games. I've even made that a separate list in the Google Sheet.

[tyl0413]

Originally posted by › Furin:

What does pro-LGBTQ+/DEI mean to you? To me its stuff like being preachy and obnoxious, pushing the pronouns, gender abolitionism (body type/androgyny), identity politics (chars whole identity is their gender, bad writing all around that), you know all the stuff that was invented within the last decade basically. Meanwhile to me it looks like your definition is having anything that deviates from straight in any way, having the option for gay romance in old RPGs gets a downvote, anything even slightly sexually suggestive in a japanese games gets a downvote.

You seem to associate "Woke" with only the most extreme and obvious examples.

Here's that excerpt from Wokespy's definition of "Woke" again:

At its core, Woke ideology manifests in radical policies and advocacy that challenge societal norms and institutions

In the US, it is a societal norm to be heterosexual. Furthermore, the institutional norm regarding marriage is that it is between a man and a woman.

Demographic data regarding LGBTQ+ representation in the US:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/719674/american-adults-who-identify-as-homosexual-bisexual-or-transgender/
https://news.gallup.com/poll/389792/lgbt-identification-ticks-up.aspx

Data on same-sex marriage:
https://news.gallup.com/poll/212702/lgbt-adults-married-sex-spouse.aspx
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/11/15/about-six-in-ten-americans-say-legalization-of-same-sex-marriage-is-good-for-society/

This is the same tactic wokies use, they ask what is a women then when they dislike the actual definition that everyone other than they use they direct you to some obscure site with their definition because some random sites definition is definitely more important than how everyday people use a word.
But i did click on it and it literally says wokeness is about "extreme progressivism" "push the boundaries of liberalism to unprecedented extremes." "This strain of extremism, often disavowed by mainstream liberalism" "Woke ideology transcends partisan divides; it’s a collective endeavor to uphold rationality" those seem to support my point more than yours, if it just said the part you quote that I wouldn't agree as much with if you're trying to suggest any change is woke.
Yes everyone knows LGBT is a small minority hence why they had accurate representation in media for decades, I think you're trying to suggest theres an issue with that when there isn't, thats normal, the 1% deserves their 1% screen time, I don't see the issue.

The things you roll your eyes at now were not acceptable just 20 years ago. Give these people an inch and they take a mile. How many inches are you going to give them?

Yes which is why they deserve to not be completely ignored, am I gonna shit on Elden Ring which is a really good game tho for literally have a string of text at the very beginning you never see again? No I won't, Ill just say thats dumb and proceed to enjoy it.
I've expressed my disapproval for the small dumb change, put as much attention on that as they did putting it there, what more you want? Now apparently Bandai has started hiring DEI consultants and such and if that is the case their next game will probably be shit, will probably be filled with gameplay and story ruining woke trash and then I can say that is definitely not a game worth playing at all, that's not the case yet. Because its not flawless that doesn't mean its total trash, its not black and white.

That's your opinion, and that's fine. But don't make it seem like "everyone" or "most people" agree with your opinion.

At this point, we've been beaten over the head by leftist propaganda in media for so long that people like me are tired of seeing it at all. Our tolerance has now reached zero.

It sounds to me like you have a higher tolerance for these things, and that's fine. Our list operates on a zero-tolerance basis.

We're talking about game here, its objectively proven by sale and players stats going 20 years back that most gamers do not like wokeness due to the reasons I've described, not due to any other reasons.
Well then just proves my point that you're not really running an anti-woke curator but an anti-anything-even-remotely-supposedly-leftist one. Numbers reflect which themes are actually disliked by gamers.

That is quite literally what we are doing. We are pointing out themes in games with the intent of informing people which games have them.
Depends how you define "shit games."

That's literally the point, you're trying to suggest some of the most successful and well known games ever made going decades back are suddenly bad now for reasons? (or they always were in your opinion which especially would've been disregarded back then)
I think it's completely fair to question the process that leads to such an outcome.

I assure you, I have no ulterior motives for doing this. Unlike SBID, I don't ask people to donate money if they like our work. I don't have a Youtube channel like Kabrutus does.

I am making no money from this and never intend to. Like the people I oppose, I act based on ideology.

We don't call any games "shit." Our methodology explicitly says we don't judge games based on whether they are "good" or "bad." We judge games based on the presence of leftist political themes i.e. "Woke" themes. Whether a game is "good" or "bad" is largely subjective and will differ from person to person. I trust everyone who views our list is capable of taking the information in our reviews into account while still making up their own minds based on their personal preferences.

Thats great you dont take money but thats what i mean you admit its due to ideology, that right there is exactly the anterior motive I was talking about. You're not reviewing games as a gamer concerned about their actual quality as games, you're reviewing them purely based on their supposed alignment/opposition to "the cause". So that's just like corporate journalists who will defend Concord and Dustborn while trashing Hogwarts, indie devs, japanese devs, old games etc. They don't care about the actual game, they're just using them as tools to push "the message". That's what they and you too are missing, like it or not, most people, do not care about the message, well they might care otherwise but not in their escapism they especially don't, theres a time and place, using these underhanded tactics infact will just push people away.
Also to be clear, I don't have anything against you personally, I don't with most people who I disagree with way more, you can have your opinion and you can run your curator and thats fine, but since it came up here I've explained it here why I'm not interested and why I disagree with the methodology and the name being used together. I didn't join your group because it deserves to exist on its own for those who are interested without outsiders interfering. My question then just would be considering you made your own likely because you weren't satisfied with existing offerings, why are you here?

[› Furin]

Thats great you dont take money but thats what i mean you admit its due to ideology, that right there is exactly the anterior motive I was talking about. You're not reviewing games as a gamer concerned about their actual quality as games, you're reviewing them purely based on their supposed alignment/opposition to "the cause".

That's because there are already many other curators judging games based on whether they are "good" or "bad." You seem to think we have to do both. But nothing is stopping you or any else from using multiple curators/reviewers to get a balanced perspective.

You make it seem like we are the ones politicizing games. Quite contrarily, we are reacting to others who have put political themes into games. Don't mistake a reaction to the problem for the problem itself.

My question then just would be considering you made your own likely because you weren't satisfied with existing offerings, why are you here?

Because my group was mentioned in the op. I'm here to address the criticisms brought up in the responses.

This is the same tactic wokies use, they ask what is a women then when they dislike the actual definition that everyone other than they use they direct you to some obscure site with their definition because some random sites definition is definitely more important than how everyday people use a word.

Statista, Pew Research, and Gallup are not obscure. They are among the foremost pollsters - particularly on political issues.

Both Pew Research and Gallup are mentioned on this Wikipedia page about "notable polling organizations" (I don't think you can call Wikipedia obscure either):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_polling_organizations#United_States

As for Wokespy, they are a contemporary of ours using the same term we do "Woke" in a similar fashion. I have provided evidence my definition matches that of my contemporaries whereas you have provided no such evidence for yours and continue to engage in generalities.

That's literally the point, you're trying to suggest some of the most successful and well known games ever made going decades back are suddenly bad now for reasons? (or they always were in your opinion which especially would've been disregarded back then)
I think it's completely fair to question the process that leads to such an outcome.

I don't seem to be getting through to you on this point so I'll frame it as a question: Where do any of our reviews say we consider a game to be "bad"?

You are ascribing meaning to our reviews where it does not exist. Our methodology explicitly lays out the fact that we do not judge games to be "good" or "bad."

Also to be clear, I don't have anything against you personally, I don't with most people who I disagree with way more, you can have your opinion and you can run your curator and thats fine, but since it came up here I've explained it here why I'm not interested and why I disagree with the methodology and the name being used together. I didn't join your group because it deserves to exist on its own for those who are interested without outsiders interfering.

I don't have anything personal against you too. I'm simply engaging with your criticisms as best as I can.

[tyl0413]

Originally posted by › Furin:

Thats great you dont take money but thats what i mean you admit its due to ideology, that right there is exactly the anterior motive I was talking about. You're not reviewing games as a gamer concerned about their actual quality as games, you're reviewing them purely based on their supposed alignment/opposition to "the cause".

That's because there are already many other curators judging games based on whether they are "good" or "bad." You seem to think we have to do both. But nothing is stopping you or any else from using multiple curators/reviewers to get a balanced perspective.

You make it seem like we are the ones politicizing games. Quite contrarily, we are reacting to others who have put political themes into games. Don't mistake a reaction to the problem for the problem itself.

My question then just would be considering you made your own likely because you weren't satisfied with existing offerings, why are you here?

Because my group was mentioned in the op. I'm here to address the criticisms brought up in the responses.

This is the same tactic wokies use, they ask what is a women then when they dislike the actual definition that everyone other than they use they direct you to some obscure site with their definition because some random sites definition is definitely more important than how everyday people use a word.

Statista, Pew Research, and Gallup are not obscure. They are among the foremost pollsters - particularly on political issues.

Both Pew Research and Gallup are mentioned on this Wikipedia page about "notable polling organizations" (I don't think you can call Wikipedia obscure either):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_polling_organizations#United_States

As for Wokespy, they are a contemporary of ours using the same term we do "Woke" in a similar fashion. I have provided evidence my definition matches that of my contemporaries whereas you have provided no such evidence for yours and continue to engage in generalities.

That's literally the point, you're trying to suggest some of the most successful and well known games ever made going decades back are suddenly bad now for reasons? (or they always were in your opinion which especially would've been disregarded back then)
I think it's completely fair to question the process that leads to such an outcome.

I don't seem to be getting through to you on this point so I'll frame it as a question: Where do any of our reviews say we consider a game to be "bad"?

You are ascribing meaning to our reviews where it does not exist. Our methodology explicitly lays out the fact that we do not judge games to be "good" or "bad."

Also to be clear, I don't have anything against you personally, I don't with most people who I disagree with way more, you can have your opinion and you can run your curator and thats fine, but since it came up here I've explained it here why I'm not interested and why I disagree with the methodology and the name being used together. I didn't join your group because it deserves to exist on its own for those who are interested without outsiders interfering.

I don't have anything personal against you too. I'm simply engaging with your criticisms as best as I can.

That's awfully similar to the wokies favorite argument "Everything is political" where they love to bring up games such as Deus Ex or Metal Gear as examples to justify the literal propaganda they're shitting out now. I find it the weirdest thing ever on how many things american right wingers and far leftists agree on even tho they supposedly hate each other.
I follow this group exactly because it gives proper reviews that are actually accurate and helpful, there is a 100 limit on curators which includes followed developers and publishers so those slots get used up real quick and only the best ones can stay.
So are you just here to advertise your group?
I was talking about Wokespy, even tho actually reading it their description aligns way more with mine than yours reading the whole thing not just the line you quoted.
Basically what you've given me so far is: "Woke is anything that isnt at least 150% straight so you don't accidentally miss it and leftists" Basically a definition so broad as when wokies call everyone a homophobe or far right and such even just for disagreeing on a single slight detail while being onboard with everything else. So you're kind of doing the same thing in reverse. Nearly everyone I've talked to who actually plays games agrees with my definition far more. I have however heard plenty of outsiders who don't care about games use this exact definition or one very similar to it..
How many of the games you downvote have you play? How many you plan to, or even the others since you have a pretty small library especially for 14 years, sure others platforms exist and such but still.

[› Furin]

Nearly everyone I've talked to who actually plays games agrees with my definition far more. I have however heard plenty of outsiders who don't care about games use this exact definition or one very similar to it..
How many of the games you downvote have you play? How many you plan to, or even the others since you have a pretty small library especially for 14 years, sure others platforms exist and such but still.

So now your criticism is I'm not a "true gamer?"

As you mentioned, you are assuming this Steam account is the only place I have games.

Look, I'm willing to continue debating you on this, but I'd rather do it over in our group's discussions rather than here. I'm curious what our members think of all this.

If you're not willing to debate over there, let's just agree to disagree.

[Alpharius]

Looking on the bright side. Recommended games on that list are as sanitized as they could get.