How do people here feel about "Idea Stealing"?

[Windchill]

I don't do a lot of workshop browsing, but when I do, I sometimes see comments on some items saying he/she stole the idea for the item from someone else, I am sure this may be true in some cases, but most certainly not all of them.

So, as the title says, how does everyone in this group feel about Item Stealing?

I don't have a problem with it myself, the way I see it, If someone sees an item, likes the idea, and thinks they can do it better, they should go for it, not everyone has the time or the imagination to think of some items before others do, and should be given a fair chance at making it, its all up to valve which makes it in when the day is over anyway.

Also, sorry if this is not the place for a discussion like this, I am just curious to see what everyone else thinks of it, Feel free to remove this topic if it shouldn't be here.

Thanks!

[HellJumper]

I think it depends on the intent of the person making the duplicate model. With so many workshoppers out there, it's inevitable that people will make similar items. But if someone blatantly makes a copy of somebody else's item in an attempt to trump it, I feel like it's rude and uncalled for. Someone just now made a model that I was literally about to make, but I felt that they did an excellent job and deserve to have no competition by me (it was the engineer light that hangs from your belt).

So I guess I'm leaning towards the fact that I think idea stealing is a little tacky. Heartsman did it best, I think. Whenever he made something very similar to another person's workshop item, he contacted them about it and listed them as a contributor as well.

[BTS | Justyn]

It's a workshop, none of it is copyrighted property. Besides the fact that there's no legal terms to say "i made this hat, don't make something similar", it's, in my opinion, just about whether the first one needs any improvements. If it's "good in theory, bad in practice" i understand if you want to remake it, but if what they made is good it seems a little jerky to try and 1-up them when they put in enough effort for it to be good.

Don't forget sometimes 2 people just happen to make similar hats and when one releases earlier, the 2nd guy feels pressured to release his because people will ridicule him, despite him developing it before he know of the first. everything has a backstory

[Windchill]

@HellJumper: That sounds like a great idea (If you make an item similar to another persons item adding them as a contributor), I mostly just don't like how people get jumped on for making items that are similar to items they and/or somebody else has made.

@Pinchy: Yes, unfortunately, most people on the workshop seem to think that since they put their item first, its their idea, and nobody else should be allowed to make it but them, that is what upsets me.

[Warcrime Committer]

I think that there's no problem with improving someone else's work, but if you want to, it would be better to talk with the original creator first, so you cana void the "That waz mai idea u suker!1!!" coments.

Also, like Pinchy said, oyu never know if there is someone working on a hat that looks like your's, and with so many people working on workshop items everyday, it's very probable that there's someoone actually making an item that looks like yours. I found myself working on the actual item i'm doing , a hat for the scout, and a week or so later after begining i saw that there's an item in the workshop that is almost the same item but for the pyro.

[Finnigan]

I totally agree that a level of respect and decorum should be adhered to concerning the work put into not only the model, but in the idea. I had one idea that was a completely different take on something that was posted this month, and my conclusion was that if I wanted to build it I would contact that poster and give a headsup, ask if it was amenable to do a different design but same category and include them in the proceeds. To find out that others already are willing to do this (the mention of Heartsman) actually makes me smile with a little more faith in humanity.

Then recently I find someone else touched on the area that spurred the idea and did something off the category as well. This brings two questions for me I was wondering if I could get feedback on so as to not step on toes in this community.

1. If several people are working on the subject matter now, is it considered more fair game? On some level, I think I will still contact the original to ask about it, but now that there are more, I don't feel the need to contact the other people who started iterating on it. However, how far does this get taken?

2. Especially if it's an OLD idea, is it considered sacred ground still? I had an idea, and in my due diligence to see how prolific it was, I found only two examples, both very old. One was a completely different design, the other was a ...well, kinda not fully realized version that is over TWO YEARS old and has never been repeated or adopted into the game. What is the statute of limitation for these things?

My gut says anything more recently done, the person should definitely be contacted out of respect. But once it's that old, there's a lot more gray area and the action is unclear. (Especially if there's the risk that the workshop submitter no longer contributes to the workshop and isn't necessarily even on Steam anymore).

Thoughts on this? I'd love to hear everyone's opinions.

Oh, and HellJumper... I said it on the item thread, but I'll say it again: thank you for being a gentleman. That's the kind of respectful action I hope to also live up to in the community. It seems like a very fun and creative place here. I hope to be a useful contributor. ;)

[HellJumper]

1) I think it's fair game if several people are working on it at once.

2) Old ideas are perfectly fine imo to revive! I think if it hasn't been put into the game in a few years, chances are a better remake might give it the necessary boost to get it in-game.

But as I mentioned, there isn't any rule in the workshop concerning copyrights of ideas, so really anyone can "copy" someone's idea (granted it's not just a re-upload of an exact model or something actually 'illegal'). Most of it comes down to respect and how nice people are about things.

Lastly, looking at the quality of items you pumped out in the past week, I'd say there is no doubt you will be a successful contributor. Keep submitting good stuff and eventually you'll gain Valve's attention! Good luck this winter :) I really think that pyro firewood backpack will ship.

[some react developer]

Maybe they should have creative commons on the Workshop. That would be cool, or some sort of Steam User Copyrights.

[QuestionablyInsane]

To the last comment about creative commons on the workshop I have to say I am STRONGLY against the idea.... Unfortunately there are all sorts of workshopers out there and once you start having a means of suing other people implemented I garantee you that there will be people which will kill the workshop by suing everyone left and right for items being even remotely similar to theirs.

As for stealing peoples' ideas, well my opinion is that you should always be as honest as you can. If you saw someone's work and and it inspired you to create your own well then cite them in you description and even better give them a heads up. Do both even. If you honestly didn't know that your item was similar to anouther item on the workshop and after the fact find out then I wouldn't worry about it and just go with it. If however someone starts claiming you are an idea theif, add onto you description that you made this item without prior knowledge of the item you are being accused of stealing...

I have to say it is just uncanny how some people are able to come up with your ideas. I'll think of something I think is totally original and then either find someone else has already made it or makes it before I get to it.... I once showed a friend a sketch of one of my ideas for a soldier misc. and no later than a week that item shows up that a hat of the same idea comes out!

I've also have struggled with finding out half way through working on my items that they are similar to other stuff... I have a habit of just making my ideas before I check the workshop to see if it's been done as once I think of something I want to make it! In those cases what I usually do is assess both how similar my item is to theirs and how long they have had their item out. If my item is really close to theirs and they just got it on the workshop only a few months ago... I'll modify my item.

So all in all I think you should be as honest as you can be with your items and behave similar to how you would want to treated by others....however I do think that worrying too much about your ideas being 100% original (whether you know it or not) is detrimental to the creative process.

[some react developer]

Originally posted by ❄questionablyInsane❄:

To the last comment about creative commons on the workshop I have to say I am STRONGLY against the idea.... Unfortunately there are all sorts of workshopers out there and once you start having a means of suing other people implemented I garantee you that there will be people which will kill the workshop by suing everyone left and right for items being even remotely similar to theirs.

As for stealing peoples' ideas, well my opinion is that you should always be as honest as you can. If you saw someone's work and and it inspired you to create your own well then cite them in you description and even better give them a heads up. Do both even. If you honestly didn't know that your item was similar to anouther item on the workshop and after the fact find out then I wouldn't worry about it and just go with it. If however someone starts claiming you are an idea theif, add onto you description that you made this item without prior knowledge of the item you are being accused of stealing...

I have to say it is just uncanny how some people are able to come up with your ideas. I'll think of something I think is totally original and then either find someone else has already made it or makes it before I get to it.... I once showed a friend a sketch of one of my ideas for a soldier misc. and no later than a week that item shows up that a hat of the same idea comes out!

I've also have struggled with finding out half way through working on my items that they are similar to other stuff... I have a habit of just making my ideas before I check the workshop to see if it's been done as once I think of something I want to make it! In those cases what I usually do is assess both how similar my item is to theirs and how long they have had their item out. If my item is really close to theirs and they just got it on the workshop only a few months ago... I'll modify my item.

So all in all I think you should be as honest as you can be with your items and behave similar to how you would want to treated by others....however I do think that worrying too much about your ideas being 100% original (whether you know it or not) is detrimental to the creative process.

Fine for stealing intellectual propety: 1 refined.

[QuestionablyInsane]

hehehe. Right. Punishment for stealing ideas is forefit of all your inventory. All your hats are now belong to us. ^_^

But seriously If there was intellectual property in the workshop... I seriously wouldn't put it past some workshoppers to start making generic hats and then using that as a means of making more money than legitimately getting chosen. It would be easy for them to sue anyone.

Now you might say I'm being cynical... But I have seen some VERY sad, twisted workshoppers... I wrote a dedication on one of my workshop items for my grandfather who passed away, I did this because I wanted the world to know that someone very important to me had passed and that the item was a tribute to him.... And I got harrested by some workshoppers claiming that it was a cheap tactic to get my item in.

[HellJumper]

Haters gonna hate.

[some react developer]

Originally posted by HellJumper:

Haters gonna hate.

I had a fake account of a random cgi guy walking sideways, with the name "Haitgottahait"

completely unrelated

[Finnigan]

Originally posted by ❄questionablyInsane❄:

I have to say it is just uncanny how some people are able to come up with your ideas. [snip!...] I wrote a dedication on one of my workshop items for my grandfather who passed away, I did this because I wanted the world to know that someone very important to me had passed and that the item was a tribute to him....

I'll say it's uncanny! I had a great idea to do a lovely WWII bomber jacket, all retro and legit. It wasn't in the workshop (at least for the Engineer so far as I could tell). I had pondered on it and was going to get to it after my next model, when lo and behold! there is is! Front page!

Upon seeing it, I had three thoughts:

• Dangit!! That's what I was going to do!
  
• Aw, man. I miss my WWII Navyman grandpa soooooo much. I know he's not Air Force, but that's not the point! He was the perfect grandfather.
  
• Yeah, HellJumper's comment rings true for me on this model. It's done so well there's no sense in touching it. ;)

Bravo, fellow Workshopper! You honor grandfathers well with this submission. My condolences for your loss...

[QuestionablyInsane]

I am sorry for your loss as well man.

Actually the story on how I did the jacket was something... It just seems like I beat the curve on the WW2 bomber jacket... I had planed to make one a long time ago but then after the Halloween update and not getting anything in I was in "crying in the corner and eating cookie dough mode"... And then my grandfather died which was a big thing as I was his caretaker for 3 years and was very close.

So there I was all mopey and being a baby and then a friend of mine on the workshop who knew I was wanting to make a bomber jacket said that someone he was working with was planning on making one so that lit a fire under my feet to get started on mine... Later that other guy my friend mentioned gave up the project. When I started showing my work in progress on the forums I was met by a couple guys saying "Dang I was wanting to do that..." and one said that he would like me to use his name he was planning on giving his jacket. So I did and it was better than my original Idea for a name (I was going to call it the Aeroneer because I like punny names).

But yeah... Sorry to derail the topic. I think everyone's items should have a story... I love hearing how people come up with their items!

[Warcrime Committer]

Originally posted by ❄questionablyInsane❄:

I wrote a dedication on one of my workshop items for my grandfather who passed away, I did this because I wanted the world to know that someone very important to me had passed and that the item was a tribute to him.... And I got harrested by some workshoppers claiming that it was a cheap tactic to get my item in.

Well, i don't do things like that, but my dad passed away some years ago, and besides the following months i was very sad, this in some way has made me want to prove myself i can do things better and better, challenging myself as much as i can, just as if a could show all what i do to my dad. And this has helped a lot, i started doing serious modeling (if an eaten apple as a hat is considered serious xD ) just because of that, i know i can do it better, and in fact every item i make is better than the last one.
So, i'm sorry for your grandfather, and i hope you get the item in, because i think it would mean a lot for you.

Aside of that, i'm not joking, but i had to stop writing because reading your post and writing this made me cry remembering my dad...