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Mad Scientist 님이 먼저 게시:

kingjames488 님이 먼저 게시:

google are such scumbags and their share in the governing system of the steam client doesn't inspire confidence.

Wouldn't really call it governing so much as just being a base infrastructure for the client and super basic browsing ability. I'd rather have a custom coded client than use chromium.

same, this chromium-based client is buggy mess, I keep submitting bug reports like how in this thread the client randomly inserted one of my screenshots into this other users post
https://imgur.com/a/rkoYVzd

I send a bug report to steam and they're just like "we're aware of the issue, there's no fix".

like the bug where my PC actually soft-locks when trying to use chat in the steam overlay...

售後還在繼續

MysteryGrayLeaf 님이 먼저 게시:

Captain Electric 님이 먼저 게시:

Ironically, one thing City of Heroes can be fairly criticized for and accused of bumrushing is POWER progression at the expense of emotional / narrative cohesion, so much so that most of the spiritual successors (not including Ship of Heroes IIRC, unfortunately) did a lot of handwringing trying to figure out a system where, say, a street-level hero could still be doing higher-and-higher-stakes street-level arcs at level 50. Because you can't do that in City of Heroes. If you keep playing and leveling up, your street-level vigilante will be forced to become a godlike being and fight cosmic threats.

The issue is specifically "Create your costume" part: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoiiMPd3Qek Ship of Heroes has it: Archetypes -> Powers -> Body -> Costume -> Register
City of Heroes later on: Hero/Villain -> Primary Sets -> Secondary Sets -> Body -> Costume -> Powers -> Register

The costume aspect is the issue for General Audiences. It destroys the aspect of vertical/power progression in Superhero MMORPGs.

Level 1 with Supersuit ==> City of Heroes have max-level/max-visual progression in the tutorial onwards.

Fantasy MMORPG, hypothetically stuck with coolest endgame gear, but it is only cosmetic at Lv 1. Get one shot by elites, get one shot by world boss, stuck doing kill quests into the 1000s, never get to fight the endgame boss. As the revulsion factor increases over time.

Superhero MMORPGs that have launched are in fact the above. So, the general audience is revulsed from playing to continuing playing. High cumulative player counts, but extremely low sticky players.

Both of these games use Hero-based characters, but APAC region has the highest growth and is the highest spender on MMOs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1UnKNZK-_M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ug0dRMkDW4 Player character -> Hero-based character -> Superhero/Max-level character.

APAC being the larger region. The wants of the many outweigh the wants of the few, or the one. The next global Superhero MMORPG is likely to be APAC-first. Which will be completely alien to look at if looking at City of Heroes, Champions Online, DC Universe Online, Marvel Heroes, Marvel Future Revolution, Ship of Heroes, City of Titans, Valiance Online, Heroes and Villains, Redside, etc and so on.

But it has been available in intellectual property for awhile now by Western-sources.
Champions RPG has the modern-day setting, no costumes at start.
Catalyst (Paragon Studios/NCSoft) is also the modern-day setting, no costumes at start.

----
DON’T WORRY ABOUT STRAPS OR GLUE
Superhero costumes don’t slip, bunch, or fall off, regardless
of how they’re stretched or abused. GMs can just chalk this
up to “superhero physics,” or (for a slightly more “realistic”
explanation) introduce the “Near-Magical Costume Material”
bit. This is some wonder material for superhero costumes that’s
unavailable to the general public, but available to superheroes
(perhaps through a campaign NPC who specializes in it). It
may just be amazingly flattering and durable itself, or it may
actually provide a rationale for a character to buy a few points of
Resistant Protection.
----
https://runescape.wiki/w/Armour <-- it has been in the Champions RPG since Fantasy Hero (1990) -> Dark Champions (1993).

Harbinger of Justice: Black Combat Vest = Armor (9 PD & ED), Hardened
Copperhead's armor is copper-colored with dark green highlights and a scaly, serpent-like motif = Armor (12 PD & ED)
Scarecrow covers his dark brown leather-and-chain armor with an old tan overcoat = Body Armor (Armor, +6 PD & ED}

The main reason why Superhero MMORPGs are 18+ million accounts. While Fantasy MMORPGs are 1+ billion acounts. Is mainly this requirement for vertical progression-style Superhero MMORPGs.

Superhero MMORPGs are popular, the issue is that they are repulsive/repugnant. As they are using an inferior game design. While propping it up as a good thing, when it is not.

Point bubbles, for Champions RPG (6th):
Normals;
Standard - 25 pts
Skilled - 50 pts
Competent - 100 pts
Heroic - 125 to 150 pts
Heroics;
Standard - 175 pts
Powerful - 225 pts
Very Powerful/Legendary - 275 pts
Superheroices:
Low-powered (City-class) - 300 pts
Standard (State-class) - 400 pts
High-powered (Nation-class) - 500 pts
Very-High-powered (World-class) - 650 pts
Cosmic - 750+ pts
Dimensional - 1500 to 2000+ pts

Normals w/ powers = Clothing
Heroics w/ powers = Uniforms
Superheroics w/ powers = Costumes

Champions RPG does not start at level 1:
-- There will be a definite progression from low- to high-powered hero. Characters start off with a few starting powers and gain more powers and more customization options throughout the course of the game. This differs a bit from the Champions tabletop game where players start off with moderate to high-power and have marginal increases over time.
^-- this also applies to City of Heroes. Which is also a Champions setting game.
-- Sean Michael Fish (the original writer), Jack Emmert, and others from the initial development were avid fans of the HERO System and Champions as a whole. Many of the signature characters, villain groups, and locations were carryovers from a long form Champions campaign they had been running for years.

Dungeons and Dragons 5th Edition, following point bubble theory. Means the player starts a Champions campaign at around Level 19 of a D&D 5e game.

If aesthetic and power progression in superhero MMORPGs became primarily gear-based I think there would be riots in the streets, or at least on a street.

I'm going to drill way, way deep into this word, "repulsive". Because I think there's a supposed holy grail at the center of many of your posts that enshrines the darkest compulsion of the video game industry.

But I'll start by saying I don't think gear progression would look alien to players of superhero MMOs, I think it would look like a familiar but uninvited guest. Most players have seen a gear-based MMO / RPG. They would immediately know what they were looking at. Many fans of comic book MMOs would be repulsed at that point, even the ones who favor it in fantasy MMOs.

But I will give this to you, players are amenable to special cases. City of Heroes under Cryptic / Paragon Studios flirted with special costume parts unlocked at certain levels or for completing specific mission chains. Today there are aesthetic effects (shrinking, some auras, NPC faction costumes) that are locked behind high-level currency.

But getting it right is a science. Having to earn Vanguard costume parts in order to make your character look like a Vanguard soldier was fine. Having to get to level 20 before city ordinance would allow you to put on a cape was off-putting (and probably un-American lol, and Vision wouldn't have appreciated it, either).

It's worth noting, modern CoH teams have unlocked once-earnable special costume parts for all players at level one not because it should have always been that way, but mostly as QoL fan-service to acknowledge the playerbase at large has probably earned the right, after so many years and unlocks, to simply create a Vanguard soldier at level one and play through the game as a Vanguard soldier gaining powers if they want. This is fine, although I think it's good to push the next line of unlockables out while giving a playerbase such a gift, which is exactly what Homecoming seems to have done with the new holographic terminals.

Making these parts unlockable after unlocking them on at least one character would have been more generous carrot-and-stick game design IMO. Or a more complex system where you have an account-based special costume vault, and you can unlock a special costume part on one character but then use it on one of your other characters. And personally I think earning game currency to buy and collect base size / parts / effects / decorations would have been more fun.

Fantasy MMOs tend to be full carrot-and-stick, and look how much more successful they are than superhero MMOs. It seems natural to ask, why not make everything carrot-and-stick? Well, congratulations and welcome to the slippery slope, you're now thinking like a shareholder. Carrots-and-sticks tickle a bit of human psychology that we all know we're susceptible to and that's fine, harmless fun, and collecting things (like base deco) can be fun. But there's a dark side that has crept into business models today that is not centered on fun, but rather on collecting and weaponizing a vast amount of soulless data.

Fantasy MMOs thematically lend themselves more easily to gear-based progression. That fact in itself doesn't make them soulless, but if your business plan is predatory and exploitative, it's a wonderful coincidence that gear-based progression is more "sticky" (more psychologically exploitative).

What you refer to as "repulsive" is not repulsive, it's just less-sticky and a less-exploitative model of progression. Players of superhero MMOs are not being repulsed by a separation of power progression and character appearance, they are simply falling off when they become unstuck in a normal and natural way.

Oh dear! I hear you saying. But it's fine and it's only repulsive to AAA industry shareholders who pay billions for data in order to make MMOs as sticky as possible, with the least amount of risk / invention / soul / effort.

You could always try creating new and engaging storytelling mechanics, new ways to immerse your players, emergent gameplay systems. And this is the part where we could probably agree on some great ideas to rejuvenate the same old progression systems. Like in your Champions RPG examples, bring each new character into the game world with some already-established attributes based on their origin and other player-selected traits. There's no need to roll a D20, just give consequence to a character's origin story and personality traits, something I suspect City of Heroes might have originally planned but got cold feet about. Then set the streetfighter on his own path to endgame that is entirely separate from an omega-class mutant's path to endgame, while designing some interesting ways their paths might cross or allow one to cross over into the other's world if they decide to straddle both paths.

But dear no, we're not here to make art, our data already lays out the shortest path to profit. Now we have players on forums arguing that business models and not content are what make games good or bad. This too, indirectly, is a development that was paid for and engineered by large corporations.

The problem here is that when you exit the fantasy genre, you are now in a different pie with some of the normal psychology subverted. Superhero games are not entirely an escape from the real world, which they typically mirror in various ways, even down to its politics or ethical handwringing. It's harder to apply the same exact data to players who want to make powered characters but in a modern or dystopic setting rather than escape into a fantasy world; not merely a power fantasy, but an impact fantasy. Not merely cogs in a world with undefined borders, but meteoric agents of good or evil in a world whose borders smack familiar. Each hero or villain will have their own individual story, their own self-defined agency, so putting them all in the same pair of overalls at level one is a nonstarter.

City of Heroes' greatest advantage might be that it came out a few months before WoW arrived to cast its covetable shadow over the industry for over a decade, and changing the industry's meta from "invent something new and exciting" to "be like WoW", a preoccupation that only the growing threat of the indie space could finally distract the industry from.

It's dangerous (and kind of boomer) to conflate the success of the AAA industry or a more popular genre with your audience's real checkboxes. "Exploit gamer psychology more" =/= "Make better games". And fantasy will always be the most popular genre with the biggest audience and the most success. Superhero MMOs shouldn't try to fight against that current by becoming more like fantasy MMOs or worse, becoming more predatory. They should focus on being the best games in the superhero genre. Even the AAA industry, whose vast reams of data are hitting a ceiling right now, might benefit from getting a little bit of its soul back.

Hope dies last they say, but it dies eventually.
What should I base my hopes on?
Anything they tried to make the game more interesting and engaging in the past turned out to be a disappointment.
Vehicles, gardening, building, leveling, bunkers, cooking, fishing, quests and last but certainly not least the spawning and bots, all overly complicated, half baked and broken in some way.
I don't see any indication for that to change in the future. Not if they stick with the same team.
Expectations? Yeah, more broken stuff on top of what's already there.

Im ready to give them my money

It's planned for future updates, as a temporary workaround, you can destroy the kiln or furnace to get all its content back.

Seems like the game will not advance and some of the same events happen over and over with same initial dialog
any help is welcome

MaxSmash09 님이 먼저 게시:

StonkOverflow 님이 먼저 게시:

well you'd be right if you weren't wrong

spam would be multiple repeats, not one

well no, spam is repeating at all, so there's that

thanks for keeping it warm for me

no