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Rose update
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Watereaters
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Looking for good TF2 players only thanks.
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Post Game help (spoiler)
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Ghaleonx39
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I somehow managed to get the car stuck on a pipe - Bug Report
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Trade AWP | Mortis
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ALALAI
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Huge FPS issues after about 1-2 hours playtime (Linux)
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MustangMR
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Cosmogenesis Not Working 3.14
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Lifeline pass bugged!
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Anarcholog
Foorumilla "Stoneshard Discussion"
19
trying to get into this game
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Sad Blueberry
Kha lähetti viestin:
Sad Blueberry lähetti viestin:
snippety snip

It's a valid comment on the early game of mages, the OP never said magic is over powered, they said it was BORING, because it sure as hell can feel boring in early game to constantly kite enemies and chip away at them with Fire Barrage rather than getting stuck in and having a bit of flesh in the game.

....but why would you start without take aim with bows? it's literally your build's bread and butter,, you're going to take it anyways along the way at some point if you're speccing into bows, you'll take impulse if you're planning on going pure electromancer. On the other hand someone going melee might not take warcry at any point in their build, i've made several characters that don't have warcry in spite of being melee, some have had rough starts while others have breezed through early game, warcry is not an essential ability for most melee builds, take aim is essential if you're going primarily ranged, impulse is essential if you're going electromancer.

Yes, Velmir starts with a unique (damaged) helmet that gives 6 protection to his head, if he gets hit ANYWHERE ELSE, those 6 protection do not do anything at all, protection is insanely unreliable up until you can actually protect every part of yourself, ESPECIALLY since there are several skills in the game that specifically target non-armored parts. Blacksmith gloves also grant +2% fumble chance, not all that worth it since fumbling is a huge concern early on, unless you do magic that is. Meanwhile, stats like fumble chance, crit/miracle chance, or magic power are always helpful. One of the BIGGEST buffs you can give yourself early on as a martial class, whether ranged or melee, is to do everything in your power to negate your fumble chance. Fumbling an attack doesn't just mean you deal half damage, it means you dont get your daze off, no knockback, no bleed no nothing, this DESTROYS builds that are reliant on them such as maces, by putting on something like blacksmith's mittens, most martial builds are shooting themselves in the foot. The tiny amount of extra protection you can get from wearing the mittens is not worth the extra fumble chance, especially since you can get comparable protection AND reduced fumble chance from work gloves, which also have half the cost. Prot just ain't it early game, i've TRIED to protect myself as well as i could, only for enemies to consistently hit the least armored part while all the negatives just slow me down, it is a mid-end game goal, not early.

...Staves literally synergize with magic dude, what other weapon category has skills and equipment in it that ACTIVELY buff your magic power? If you are going pure mage, you are ALWAYS going to pick staves, they are literally tailored to be used by mages in every way possible, thus dipping points into staves is not deviating from your build. If you want to make a cinderblock knight that trudges around everywhere in heavy armor as they shield bash peasants to death, you're likely looking at like 5 different trees that you need to heavily dip into to get your build going. Meanwhile 1-2 points in staves will not negatively affect a mage's build at all, since there are several skills in the staff tree that actively improve their magic abilities or allow them to position out of danger to continue casting magic. Step Aside, a 1st tier ability in the staves tree LITERALLY REDUCES THE COOLDOWN OF SPELLS, SPELLS!! it is a martial tree that reduces the cooldown of SPELLS, WHAT OTHER WEAPON DOES THAT?! Every single primarily magic using character also starts with the staves tree. As if that wasn't enough, it is the smallest 2 handed weapon tree in the entire game, almost like it's meant to supplement something, but i just can't quite put my finger on what that could possibly be, HMMMMMMM. Meanwhile if you want direct benefits for melee from ranged or magic, you're going to have to make a very meaningful dip that a good amount of builds can't afford.

I don't seem to have ever argued that you can't go hybrid, when i say "melee character", i do mean MELEE CHARACTER, not hybrid melee/ranged or melee/magic, or even the ever so rare ranged/magic. Also obviously grabbing a crossbow is helpful early on for melee builds, it's the most common advice i give out to people. What we're talking about here, is actually INVESTING into these trees, if you want to have a melee character, in most cases you cannot afford to spend those points on magic or ranged trees as these often deviate and do not synergize with the build you are going for, meanwhile staves do nothing BUT synergize with magic builds, there's very little reason to not pick a few staff skills. If i had dipped into ranged to let my mace 'n' board Arna use a crossbow better, i'd be screwed now that i'm well into the game as it would completely clash with my build. Hybrid builds are all well and good, but not every build benefits later on from having ranged as an option. (though damn near every mage build benefits from staves).

Willpower can absolutely count as both defensive and offensive. Arcanistics is pure damage and utility, with enough willpower you can non-stop teleport everywhere across the battlefield while summoning entities to take damage for you. Electromancy also benefits a ton defensively from cooldowns, it's quite hard to get hit in melee whenever you keep knocking everyone back or pinning them down at range. Geomancy becomes a knock backing, trapping, stunning and petrifying death machine with enough cooldown reduction, it'd be laughable to claim that a geomancer doesn't benefit defensively from willpower, not to mention that willpower gives you fortitude which is a tank stat. As a certain Arcanist player said not too long ago, "My tankiness pretty much comes from my ability to kill everything before it can even hurt me", or something along those lines. The ONLY magic tree that doesn't benefit defensively from willpower is pyromancy, which is pure damage, and has to source it's defensive options from other skill trees, which may or may not benefit defensively from willpower.

Early game i have never ran into backfire being an issue unless i'm already at death's door from having my early game arcanist or geomancer get beaten in melee range. It absolutely does become an issue later on, unless you make an effort to control it, which honestly isn't that hard if you dip your pinkie toe into magic mastery. Also depending on playstyle, geomancers do tend to start standing very, very still eventually, so backfire isn't really an issue there. Also arcanists can keep away forever in certain situations, you can even easily kill a bear at level 1 with an arcanist, it'll just take forever. As for my experience on electromancer, i find that i get through most fights without a single scratch on me, no need to waste money on repairs or meds. And the odd fight where 3-4 enemies jump me? enemy 1 dies before they reach me, enemy 2 gets weakened, and then it becomes a game of pinball where i keep knocking enemies 2, 3 and 4 back with impulse and Step Aside, which ofcourse reduces the cooldown of all my spells. I can imagine a pyromancer would struggle more with several enemies early on, though i'm just as sure that a single claw trap would remedy these rare cases. Arcanists and Geomancers, having the weakest starts amongst magic users would obviously get killed if they stayed and fought, though there are few builds that could take on that many enemies at once in early game and live.

Shrug, i really don't see warcry being that effective early on, i'm sure running away and spamming it until you can force a 1v1 is nifty, but i kind of doubt you're going to immediately go fight the other 3, even in 1v1s right after the first one has wounded you.
You can interpret they mean magic is op that's why it's boring.

To not taking take aim, that's the same as why wouldnt you take warcry? It literally is your bread and butter crowd control as melee. Just because warcry is not essential does not disregard the fact that any melee weapon can and DOES benefit from it. It's so damn powerful that I have literally no skills in 2-hand sword and at level 1-3 im doing just fine without any 2-hand sword skill. Then I started dipping into electro. I'm pretty sure there are other builds that also make melee strong so to say melee is weak feels wrong when it isn't that weak if you know how to play properly just like any other build. Even without warcry, I'm sure every weapon has some key skill that makes them good similar to how electro's impulse makes electro broken early game, and take aim makes bows actually useful as well as distracting shot. Almost all the melee characters (not talking dlc cuz i have not bothered to play them) have warfare tree and have access to warcry at level 1. Not taking it and complaining melee is too hard is like not taking impulse on electro and saying electro is too hard. Trust me, if you just rely on jolt and fire barrage at level 1, u will eventually hit a wall early where enemies are in your face and you get destroyed unless u go into staffs, dagger, or grab impulse. With melee it's same thing. Grab warcry or some ability that is powerful and melee will not longer be weak.

Blacksmith gloves dont shoot me in the foot. I went warcry and seize the initiative, the blacksmith glove gave me extra block chance and protection for cheap and at level 1. Even if you don't take blacksmith gloves, stop acting like there arent other gloves or other armors a melee can access that are good. Right now I'm playing as the mage jonna and i easily have 3 protection on all parts except her gloves which is 2 protection at level 1 because i took off the cowl you start with for one of the cheap 3 protect hats and a 3 protect boots. You can do the same with velnir and that combined with either block chance or dodge will help you survive melee just fine. Sure, you take more damage than if you were attacking with spells or arrows, but each hit with melee hits way harder and takes less turns to kill an enemy that it's usually worth it compared to when you face 2-4 enemies as a ranged/magic only build where you can only kite for so long before they are in your face and you are doomed because you are out of energy from spamming spells, your backfire chance and backfire damage is way too high to risk casting spells, and generally if you didnt go light protective armor like i did with jonna and went for more spell focused mage light armor where it doesnt give you lots of protection in favor for energy reduction and magic power, that's where its gonna hurt. If you use daggers or staffs then you can't really call yourself a ranged combat because now you are a mixed combat. So do the same thing with melee. Go mixed ranged and melee if you are struggling.

I don't give a rats ass if staffs scale with magic. The point is that you are using melee combat meaning it's not pure range magic, or pure ranged archer, it's a mix. And I've stated before that mixed builds are the most efficient. And you need to realize that for those people who complain that melee is hard, maybe their problem is they restrict themselves to melee only and dont combine melee and ranged. A mage can do ranged and melee because of staffs, but dont sit there and act like with swords you cannot use a bow or crossbow or cast some spells once you learn them from treatise or throw weapons from afar.

The main issue i had with the op is that they indirectly telling the devs "hey nerf magic, buff melee" with that type of attitude. They should have just said melee is too hard can you guys give me tips. They instead came off whiney so i will give them the same attitude in that, if you are gonna complain melee is too hard im gonna tell you it's not, you just need to learn how to play the game and learn which abilities and skills and equipment work together. But that can be said to any build, melee ranged magic it's all about knowing which things synergize well or are op. It's not ranged magic itself that is op because as I've said, if you just took jolt from electro or fire barrage from pyro or even both of those, you will learn that you can't just cast spell, move back, cast spell, move back because eventually enemies will reach you when you face 3 or 4 enemies and you WILL die. It's because magic is good in both ranged and melee combat, but so is ranged build and so is melee build. With an archer, I can pelt enemies with arrows and then once they are in my face, i pull out melee weapon and fight in melee range.

Bro u are here talking about how dipping 1 or 2 points into staff isnt a big deal, but you act like dipping a single ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ skill into warcry is a big deal. It is on 3 melee characters dude, 1 freaking point into warcry and you are like oh hell no you cant dip that its too weird from melee. YOU LITERALLY START WITH WARFARE on 3 of the melee characters. The only 2 characters who dont have warfare at the start is the bow guy and jonna. If you can dip 1 point or two into staff, dont ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ act like you cant dip a point into warcry.

Like i said since you seem to forget, ARCANIST ONLY CAME INTO THE GAME IN THE LATEST UPDATE. This was not a skill in the game before that and I've not playing arcanist so I cannot judge but you can't say arcanist as a defensive ability for mages when before the latest patch arcanist did not exist WTF. And then for your other examples like electro being more defensive with willpower.... ur relying on a freaking knockback that isnt even guaranteed. If you dont get the knock back, u dont gain block chance, dodge, health from willpower. I don't play geo so cant touch on that. So if you take away arcanist, im pretty much right on the part that willpower doesnt really help you defensively because potentially maybe just with geo but with pyro its a no and electro its a maybe if the knockback works. Arcanist is new so it would only apply now but not for the game for the last 5+ years. Meanwhile, if i go into a melee build, i can benefit from strength that effectively increases weapon damage as well as block chance. If i go into agility, i get counter chance which is an offensive boost as well as fumble chance reduction which even if it does more than just prevent half damage, is STILL a increase in damage output because you are now less likely to do half damage, and every threshhold you get 5 dodge meaning you gain effectively defensive stats passively. In your example with electro, its not passive defense, its hoping electro spell does a knock back for crowd control to keep you away, not the same thing especially when the knock back fails and you are going to take a direct hit. And goes back to how you said "Willpower can absolutely count as both defensive and offensive" this is not true because universally all mages will not gain a defensive boost from this as you stated with pyro. But you know who does benefit offensively and defensively from strength and agility stats? Freaking everybody. Even mages although not as much obviously, but they do infact gain weapon damage increase and block chance increase from strength. They do infact gain dodge chance upon threshholds reached with agility thus giving anybody a defensive boost. Meanwhile willpower will not benefit everybody in a defensive way when an attack is about to be put on the character.

part 2 after this comment because i exceeded the character length
8
Some douchebag hack the servers?
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bd
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