5 year bans need to return :: VAC Discussion

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nya[dc] 2012 年 9 月 4 日下午 7:01

5 year bans need to return

They need to revert back to 5 year bans, don't get me started on the whole "temporary bans didn't work" nonsense because they didn't even give the 5 year bans a chance to. 1 year bans were a failure and for obvious reasons, 5 years however is pretty close to a permanent ban in terms of the gaming world and peoples interests.

VAC1 was first introduced in 2002 with version 1.4 of Counter-Strike, as expected with a new AC it had a lot of problems and wasn't really good at what it did, this functioned on the World Opponent Network. When Steam launched in September of 2003 the 1 year banning protocol carried over with it, however anyone who was banned on WON though would not be banned on Steam.

So with that there went all of those bans it had been adding up for a year and a half which no longer applied to the new platform. With that said, sometime in early 2004'ish Valve implemented 5 year VAC1 bans then shortly after this cut all support for continued development of VAC1; for the development of VAC2.

In mid 2005 Valve unveiled VAC2 as the replacement for VAC1, this new AC carried with it permanent bans as opposed to the the preceeding 5 year bans and is as it was then, now.

Now let's really look at this and what is happening in reality with VAC2 and people's accounts. People who are hardcore cheaters don't care about the account they are cheating on, they don't care about the game, they simply don't care. If they get banned by VAC they will simply make a new account, buy the game again and completely circumvent the permanent ban altogether.

What does that do in relation to a 5 year ban? Absolutely nothing.

Now you could easily come back with "oh well they will be unbanned in 5 years and cheat on the account again" argument and yada, yada, yada. Fact of reality is they were cheating again on another account moments after they got banned, so what's the point?

A permanent ban only serves to hurt people who do care, people who made the mistake of cheating out of ignorance and have since learned from it, people who messed with files or downloaded something they didn't know they shouldn't have, people who got their accounts highjacked and are cheated on by someone else.

It hurts these people, not the cheaters who will continue to do it without a care in the world on another account minutes later, it doesn't make any sense. These people are and will have their accounts tarnished forever because they made a mistake.

5 year bans were only in place for about 15 months or so, they didn't let them work, all of the people who were banned by a 5 year VAC1 ban in 2004-2005 were unbanned in 2009-2010. Do you really think those people are still cheating? Do you really think that even a minority of them remember their account information or are still active on Steam? I mean really? The number of those people who cheated and were banned then actually came back is probably so low it wouldn't amount to anymore than a three digit number.

It just doesn't make sense for permanent bans, none whatsoever.

最后由 nya[dc] 编辑于; 2012 年 10 月 14 日下午 12:20

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正在显示第 76 - 90 条，共 251 条留言

Τhe Rolling Cheese Wheel 2012 年 10 月 10 日上午 10:31

The vast majority of vac banned users are players that don't give a flying spoon. Why should valve cater to the super tiny majority that do care?

#76

Jamebonds1 2012 年 10 月 10 日上午 10:35

Some player are meant to be cheater for life. Once cheater, always cheater. Plus some cheater player will never learning lesson after VAC banned.

#77

Zefar 2012 年 10 月 10 日上午 11:14

引用自 TheAleG：
RQU, if valve make a second chance for player, a loot of people will not cheat again,
something like you could play online, but if someone enter on his account apears his was baned before, but get a second chance
but... they never you do that, if have VAC on the text they will nerver read it =/

VAC has banned over 1.5 million accounts. How many accounts do you think are owned by the same guy?

A lot I'd guess. Seeing that the Steam numbers of the most popular games does not even get close to a million.

Cheaters will just keep making new accounts when they are banned. The ones who get banned and regret it will just move on.

#78

Satoru 2012 年 10 月 10 日上午 11:38

引用自 matthew21164：
引用自 ^1Laptop65：
2-3 year bans would be better, everyone learns from their mistakes. If they do it again, make it perm. It's just a game.

Agreed, but I think they sould have to pay double the price of the game as well, otherwise bot accounts could be made just to test game cheats ;).

Given that cheaters by and large

1) Keep rebuying VAC banned games on new accounts
2) pay money for new 'undetectable' cheats all the time

Monetary walls to undo a VAC ban would be catastrophic

#79

ShaunY 2012 年 10 月 10 日下午 5:47

5 year or permanent ban to me is the same penality. I got to say being banned by an anti cheat system for Lifetime or for 5 years remain the same. I been banned for Glitch (writed on the game) from the Developper (Hacking) something must be wrong they use to say I was hacking and I been banned on login screen. yes it's possible to be banned by mistake but not from VAC2. The game I'm talking about is not related to steam at all and the game is in my black list since the dev told me to go ♥♥♥♥ myself. Nitto Legends: a poor drag racing game with a Fail dev team.

#80

Absolute Zero 2012 年 10 月 10 日下午 8:56

How bout stick all the cheaters in a "Cheater Pool" until they learn their lesson?
That seems appropriate.

#81

KKiONI 2012 年 10 月 12 日下午 3:15

As much as I am against cheating, I think perhaps a timed ban would be better. Cheaters who are set on cheating are just going to keep cheating on another account. Accounts to them are expendable. So the OP is right in that the only people that actually suffer from the ban are the people who will most likely never consider cheating again.

#82

Τhe Rolling Cheese Wheel 2012 年 10 月 12 日下午 3:18

引用自 ^1Laptop65：
2-3 year bans would be better, everyone learns from their mistakes. If they do it again, make it perm. It's just a game.

Unlikely.

引用自 CotF KKiONI：
As much as I am against cheating, I think perhaps a timed ban would be better. Cheaters who are set on cheating are just going to keep cheating on another account. Accounts to them are expendable. So the OP is right in that the only people that actually suffer from the ban are the people who will most likely never consider cheating again.

The easier solution would be to just flat out ban everyone who cheats permanantly to inflict maximum damage to everyone that cheats. The community appreciates this, the only people that doesn't are the ones that cheat and that's how it should always be.

最后由 Τhe Rolling Cheese Wheel 编辑于; 2012 年 10 月 12 日下午 3:21

#83

nya[dc] 2012 年 10 月 12 日下午 4:31

引用自 The Rolling Cheese：
The easier solution would be to just flat out ban everyone who cheats permanantly to inflict maximum damage to everyone that cheats. The community appreciates this, the only people that doesn't are the ones that cheat and that's how it should always be.

This is completely untrue, I do not cheat and I don't agree with that logic in the slightest.

#84

Silicon Vampire 2012 年 10 月 12 日下午 7:08

Then, you are in the minority...

#85

nya[dc] 2012 年 10 月 12 日下午 7:17

引用自 Silicon Vampire：
Then, you are in the minority...

I severely doubt that, you're using a conjecture based assumption to how the whole of Steam users feel on a subject. I personally feel more users would be inclined to allow people to have a second chance after 5 years than permanent exile, people change.

#86

Jamebonds1 2012 年 10 月 12 日下午 7:35

引用自 Nya` NetcodeSource.com：
引用自 Silicon Vampire：
Then, you are in the minority...
I severely doubt that, you're using a conjecture based assumption to how the whole of Steam users feel on a subject. I personally feel more users would be inclined to allow people to have a second chance after 5 years than permanent exile, people change.

Some people aren't change.

#87

nya[dc] 2012 年 10 月 12 日下午 7:39

引用自 Jamebonds1：
Some people aren't change.

And if they don't they get banned again.

#88

Pyro Gourmand 2012 年 10 月 12 日下午 7:40

A vac ban only affects an engine as far as I know, it is not preventing you from buying and playing new games on this account.

Asking for a time limit to the VAC ban doesn't make sense: if a player went as far as using an external program to gain an advantage in a multiplayer game, he crossed several lines and shouldn't be allowed to take part in that multiplayer environment again.

If several years later you grew up, you're free to create a new account and buy that game again, nothing prevent you from doing that.

And there's still the servers without VAC.

VAC is far from catching most cheaters, but at least its punishment system is excellent. It works because there is no "I won't do it again, I promiiiise" bullcrap, the teenagers just have to suck it up and deal with it.

...

"Do you really think those people are still cheating?"

Yes. They cheated, they bought cheats packages, they bought new accounts, they set up phising websites.

5 years later, they are still cheating because they like doing that - and now they've got their own money to buy the monthly-subscription cheats, so they can cheat on all games all the time, they no longer care.

"Do you really think that even a minority of them remember their account information or are still active on Steam? I mean really? The number of those people who cheated and were banned then actually came back is probably so low it wouldn't amount to anymore than a three digit number."

Most of them didn't came back because they only had 2-3 games on that account, because they grew up and quit PC gaming, because the only thing they do is cheating so a banned account is worthless for them.

Keeping the perma-ban is making sure these worthless people aren't all coming back to cheat again and again.

...

If you plan on cheating, you give up your right to have an account with all your friends and all your games on it. Cheating has a cost: you can't keep an account, and you need to buy your games again and again.

So if you want to enjoy Steam, just stop cheating, simple as that.

...

If I was a VAC admin, I would even detect if a new account is created with a credit card, and/or a Steam Guard ID, and/or avery recent IP adresses, that was previously used by a banned account.

The new account would be put into probation: restricted access to Steam's features for a month, and a 7 days delay to get a clean VAC status (for the games affected by a VAC ban on the previous account).

They also sign an additional agreement regarding cheating, indicating that if they're caught cheating again their entire Steam account is suspended for a month.

Also, repeated cheating on several Steam accounts, with the same credit card/Steam Guard should lead to a week-long, then month-long (if it happens again), of all Steam accounts linked to that Steam Guard ID/credit card, so the "clean" account would also get hit.

Oh man, imagine the possibilities...

最后由 Pyro Gourmand 编辑于; 2012 年 10 月 12 日下午 8:01

#89