Why are alts still allowed?

[Kitty Katyusha]

The amount of cheaters daily on steam who use alt accounts to avoid any major punishments is getting rather out of hand. I thought that steam could easily tell when someone has alt accounts the same way admins in certain games can tell if a person had an alt account with a vac ban on it. If they were to take action against alt accounts or at least instantly ban any alt account of a vac banned or proven cheater who has been banned it would really make it harder for them to flourish with little to no issue.

[ReBoot]

Except alt accounts are pretty for cheaters for they have to buy the game again. On the other hand, how exactly would you go about detecting that? Not guessing, actually detecting as you sure as ♥♥♥♥ don't wanna ban innocents.

[Kitty Katyusha]

Originally posted by ReBoot:

Except alt accounts are pretty expensive for cheaters, for they have to buy the game again. On the other hand, how exactly would you go about detecting that? Not guessing, actually detecting as you sure as ♥♥♥♥ don't wanna ban innocents.

In games like rust admins already use tools to detect a previous vac ban on a alt account through steamID. Also every account usually shares the same mac address. Perhaps just make it so a vac ban also bans the mac address? https://www.reddit.com/r/hacking/comments/287qao/how_do_steam_detect_alt_accounts/

[ReBoot]

Originally posted by Kitty Katyusha:

In games like rust admins already use tools to detect a previous vac ban on a alt account through steamID.

... which are different for different Steam accounts.

Originally posted by Kitty Katyusha:

Also every account usually shares the same mac address. Perhaps just make it so a vac ban also bans the mac address?

... which can be spoofed. It takes under 5 minutes to spoof the MAC address. Don't even need to download tools to do that, Windows' device manager lets you do it just fine. Well, that, and MAC addresses are actually private'ish data and Valve got some ♥♥♥♥ for evaluating them for VAC purposes a couple years ago.

[Kitty Katyusha]

Originally posted by ReBoot:

Originally posted by Kitty Katyusha:

In games like rust admins already use tools to detect a previous vac ban on a alt account through steamID.

... which are different for different Steam accounts.

Originally posted by Kitty Katyusha:

Also every account usually shares the same mac address. Perhaps just make it so a vac ban also bans the mac address?

... which can be spoofed. It takes under 5 minutes to spoof the MAC address. Don't even need to download tools to do that, Windows' device manager lets you do it just fine. Well, that, and MAC addresses are actually private'ish data and Valve got some ♥♥♥♥ for evaluating them for VAC purposes a couple years ago.

Honestly I bet the average cheater doesn't go to that length..(though I could be wrong) most of them just by cheats and make or buy an alt and then cheat there heart out. Its to the point where every increase in cheaters getting banned is just a drop in the bucket. Alts currently are the biggest loop hole basic causal cheaters use to not get their precious main account banned. How do admins in rust find out if someone has an alt account that is vac banned?

[ReBoot]

Originally posted by Kitty Katyusha:

Originally posted by ReBoot:

... which are different for different Steam accounts.
... which can be spoofed. It takes under 5 minutes to spoof the MAC address. Don't even need to download tools to do that, Windows' device manager lets you do it just fine. Well, that, and MAC addresses are actually private'ish data and Valve got some ♥♥♥♥ for evaluating them for VAC purposes a couple years ago.

Honestly I bet the average cheater doesn't go to that length..(though I could be wrong) most of them just by cheats and make or buy an alt and then cheat there heart out. Its to the point where every increase in cheaters getting banned is just a drop in the bucket. Alts currently are the biggest loop hole basic causal cheaters use to not get there precious main account banned. The kind of players who play on there main account get there butt kicked and raged over to the alt just to hack.

If someone got the energy to buy new accounts/games on new accounts, they got the energy to change one's MAC address.

On the other hand, you've ignored the very basic problem of false positives. While MACs can be spoofed, buyers of used hardware generally don't bother and merely get annoyed with the service (justifyibly, I might add) when they get a ban for nothing, this time for real.

There's a reason why ACs don't employ HW ID bans and that reason is they're stupid.

[Kitty Katyusha]

Originally posted by ReBoot:

Originally posted by Kitty Katyusha:

Honestly I bet the average cheater doesn't go to that length..(though I could be wrong) most of them just by cheats and make or buy an alt and then cheat there heart out. Its to the point where every increase in cheaters getting banned is just a drop in the bucket. Alts currently are the biggest loop hole basic causal cheaters use to not get there precious main account banned. The kind of players who play on there main account get there butt kicked and raged over to the alt just to hack.

If someone got the energy to buy new accounts/games on new accounts, they got the energy to change one's MAC address.

On the other hand, you've ignored the very basic problem of false positives. While MACs can be spoofed, buyers of used hardware generally don't bother and merely get annoyed with the service (justifyibly, I might add) when they get a ban for nothing, this time for real.

There's a reason why ACs don't employ HW ID bans and that reason is they're stupid.

False positives already exist and will exist ether way. People daily has to appeal them and deal with them. The alternative If nothing is done about alts is that the cheater issue will just keep getting worse as alts steam accounts are very easy to get ahold of ether creating on your own or buying. They are basically free to make for anyone with 30 minutes of time if that.

[ReBoot]

Originally posted by Kitty Katyusha:

False positives already exist and will exist ether way. If nothing is done about alts then the cheater issue will just keep getting worse as alts steam accounts are very easy to get ahold of ether creating on your own or buying. They are basically free to make for anyone with 30 minutes of time if that.

There's a difference between doing something and getting something done.[en.wikipedia.org]

[Kitty Katyusha]

Originally posted by ReBoot:

Originally posted by Kitty Katyusha:

False positives already exist and will exist ether way. If nothing is done about alts then the cheater issue will just keep getting worse as alts steam accounts are very easy to get ahold of ether creating on your own or buying. They are basically free to make for anyone with 30 minutes of time if that.

There's a difference between doing something and getting something done.[en.wikipedia.org]

And if nothing is done then things will just get worse. Ever heard of the idea of sacrifices for the greater good? False positives already exist with steams current system. If steam were to do something about alts then the amount of cheaters who would be banned would increase but of course the false positives would of course increase as well. We live in reality not a fake perfect world and unfortunately the truth is there is no perfect answer to any solution and taking no action will only allow the situation to worsen. The true best course of action is figuring the most effective way to ban those who cheat while having the least false positives as possible. But asking for things like false positives to not exist at all is honestly impossible with any system.

[ReBoot]

Originally posted by Kitty Katyusha:

Originally posted by ReBoot:

There's a difference between doing something and getting something done.[en.wikipedia.org]

And if nothing is done then things will just get worse. Ever heard of the idea of sacrifices for the greater good? False positives already exist with steams current system. If steam were to do something about alts then the amount of cheaters who would be banned would increase but of course the false positives would increase as well. We live in reality not a fake perfect world and unfortunately the truth is there is no perfect answer to any solution and taking no action will only allow the situation to worsen.

Expect doing things that don't contribute to the solution while bringing own problems makes the situation worse even more!
The axe is the ultimate painkiller. There's literally no way more effective to get rid of headache than to get rid of the head.

[Kitty Katyusha]

Originally posted by ReBoot:

Originally posted by Kitty Katyusha:

And if nothing is done then things will just get worse. Ever heard of the idea of sacrifices for the greater good? False positives already exist with steams current system. If steam were to do something about alts then the amount of cheaters who would be banned would increase but of course the false positives would increase as well. We live in reality not a fake perfect world and unfortunately the truth is there is no perfect answer to any solution and taking no action will only allow the situation to worsen.

Expect doing things that don't contribute to the solution while bringing own problems makes the situation worse even more!
The axe is the ultimate painkiller. There's literally no way more effective to get rid of headache than to get rid of the head.

So are you trying to state that dealing with alts, a thing that can easily be proven allows for basically anyone to cheat without punishment would not contribute to the average cheat consumer getting banned or discourage said thing? Sorry but what?

Also just get some Advil jeez no need for the entry level philosophy class nonsense to be spouted in this conversation.

Let me ask you this with steams current system are there false positives? and is it at all effective? Do you have any suggestions to how to make a system to stop alt cheaters or do you just want to make rather basic blanket statements that are basically the same as a blank response.

[ReBoot]

Originally posted by Kitty Katyusha:

a thing that can easily be proven

Prove it please. Prove, outside of the flawed of hardware IDs, that is is in fact easy to deal with alternative accounts.

Originally posted by Kitty Katyusha:

Let me ask you this with steams current system are there false positives?

That argument is absurd. It becomes obviously absurd once you apply it to ther fields: our hospitals can't heal everyone. There is people getting there, sick, hopeful for cure, and get out in a casket. Should we just close all of them?
No. You're commiting the mistake of principal thinking. The world is not black or white. False-positives are not present or none. There's a huge difference between "a few not worth throwing a fuss about" and "masses of people inherit other people's bans because some bonehead decided to use an ID which isn't unique to a person".

But don't take it from me. Take it from the gaming companies not doing MAC bans (or HW ID bans in general). Either everyone but you is stupid, you have found THE ULTIMATE KNOWLEDGE or the idea is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ stupid. While you, of course, are free to pick any interpretation you want, I prefer to stick with the most likely one. Hint: it's not the one where theere's that one genius knowing something no-one else does.

[Kitty Katyusha]

Originally posted by ReBoot:

Originally posted by Kitty Katyusha:

a thing that can easily be proven

Prove it please. Prove, outside of the flawed of hardware IDs, that is is in fact easy to deal with alternative accounts.

Sorry but don't take my sentences out of context. I stated that and I quote fully unlike you "So are you trying to state that dealing with alts, a thing that can easily be proven allows for basically anyone to cheat without punishment would not contribute to the average cheat consumer getting banned or discourage said thing?" Aggro with context in mind the statement I made was that you can easily prove that alts allow for cheaters to go unpunished. no were in my statement did I say that it was easy to deal with alt accounts. However I am still the only one between us who has offer any solution or even a constructive remark on the subject.

So again I ask how would you go about dealing with alt accounts without getting any false positives at all? I offered my suggestions on the topic and you have chalked them up to not possible at all due to the more effort it would require a cheater to deal with said cheat and the fact false positives exist..

[ReBoot]

Originally posted by Kitty Katyusha:

So again I ask how would you go about dealing with alt accounts without getting any false positives at all? I offered my suggestions on the topic and you have chalked them up to not possible at all due to the more effort it would require a cheater to deal with said cheat and the fact false positives exist..

Your problem is, you still want to get something done ASAP. Especially do you want to have something done before analyzing the situation. And here's the answer: I'd first analyze the situation. Which, in turn, depends on the game. You said "free" above, meaning you certainly aren't talking about paid games. That boils it down to, most likely, Dota, CSGO, TF2 and Apex Legends. Both Dota and CSGO got systems to discourage using of alternative accounts so if the game in question was that, I would go from there. About Apex, I've literally no idea but either way, I'd start gathering intel on what's currently there. As for TF2, it's pretty much ♥♥♥♥♥♥. However, Valve recently put out a patch for this thing and there's hope they'll not let it rot from trolls, bots & whatnot. I personally would like them to adopt CSGO's prime system and call it a day.

[Kitty Katyusha]

Originally posted by ReBoot:

Originally posted by Kitty Katyusha:

a thing that can easily be proven

Prove it please. Prove, outside of the flawed of hardware IDs, that is is in fact easy to deal with alternative accounts.

Originally posted by Kitty Katyusha:

Let me ask you this with steams current system are there false positives?

That argument is absurd. It becomes obviously absurd once you apply it to ther fields: our hospitals can't heal everyone. There is people getting there, sick, hopeful for cure, and get out in a casket. Should we just close all of them?
No. You're commiting the mistake of principal thinking. The world is not black or white. False-positives are not present or none. There's a huge difference between "a few not worth throwing a fuss about" and "masses of people inherit other people's bans because some bonehead decided to use an ID which isn't unique to a person".

But don't take it from me. Take it from the gaming companies not doing MAC bans (or HW ID bans in general). Either everyone but you is stupid, you have found THE ULTIMATE KNOWLEDGE or the idea is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ stupid. While you, of course, are free to pick any interpretation you want, I prefer to stick with the most likely one. Hint: it's not the one where theere's that one genius knowing something no-one else does.

why are you again trying to twist everything. Do you do this to all posts? you are the one stating that you can't take an action due to false positives. That is black and white thinking. (Black and white thinking is a thought pattern that makes people think in absolutes. For instance, you may think you are either always right or the world's biggest failure.) In this case you are basically stating if a false positive exists at all then then its not allowed. aggro black and white.

Its not an absurd argument at all. Games like valorant and even games from activist and blizzard have hardware banning.. Consoles like xbox will literately lock your console just for trolling. Perhaps do some more research on the topic and come back?

Also I find it really sad that you are attempting to apply this to things such as hospitals. In a childish statement that doesn't even remotely makes sense compared to the topic at hand.

The truth of the matter is almost every system as a margin of false positives. Should we get rid of all fire alarms and security systems and anticheat / security software just because there is and will always be a % of false positives?

[ReBoot]

Originally posted by Kitty Katyusha:

why are you again trying to twist everything

You're not even replying to the last post of mine, the one where I replied to you, but I'm the one twisting stuff. Are you high?

Originally posted by Kitty Katyusha:

The truth of the matter is almost every system as a margin of false positives. Should we get rid of all fire alarms and security systems and anticheat / security software just because there is and will always be a % of false positives?

An alarm system with a ton of false-positives which also leaves the actual criminals through will indeed get gotten rid of soon. Your problem is, you want an alarm system. You want to have an alarm system for the sake of having an alarm system, not to have it give sensible alarms.