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You have no evidence of this whatsoever. If I had a VAC ban, there should not be prejudice to the discussion.
I distrust VAC and almost every other anti-cheat software out there. With no means to appeal their decision, you effectively are guilty until proven innocent; And you cannot prove your innocence because you have no information to go on.
For Valve, it's a little more complicated. If I had the choice between playing my games and not using Steam, I would certainly be off this platform now. Unfortunately, DRM is a thing; And some of the games I own, require me to use Steam to play.
They have also refused to investigate addons that contained cheats within workshop items in Left 4 Dead 2 for half a decade. Things such as Texture hacks were okay to them until very, very recently when I called Valve out for it via a Reddit post, prompting them to change the system; Which effectively removed all addons in competitive modes (not what I asked for).
They also do not take cyber bullying seriously. Their games are known for having very toxic environments. In Left 4 Dead 2, I've had death threats, my IP being revealed, people griefing and team killing, ect.
And back when my internet died a few years back, I couldn't play ANY of my games for two months because I had no internet, back then you needed to go online to go offline, still griped about that.
I could go on, but this is not a thread for my grievances.
Do you realize that if Valve did give info on what caused bans, it would lead to undetectable cheats? Who wants that? I don't.
VAC existed before Steam. So, you've had plenty of time instead of waiting until now to distrust it.
You don't understand how VAC works, so you assume it's wrong. We get these threads every week.
Would seem to make sense despite Left 4 Dead 2 being one of the most played games on Steam. I believe VAC is years out of date in Left 4 Dead 2 now, so it's in desperate need of an update. Seeing cheaters are three or so games becomes common in the Versus game mode.
I wish we had more information on this. If we did, I would be in favour of VAC, but as of right now, trusting a company to not have a potentially broken system is too much for me.
...and you don't distrust them that much or you would not be using their platform.
Not really, because the cheat makers are already in a cat and mouse game with VAC. They are already testing the waters, that is how several sites out there are able to stay ahead of the system that VAC has to offer. While the average Joe who is falsely banned can't appeal his case, can't request to know what triggered the ban and has to rely on the VAC team to 1. Look into the false flag, find the cause and then revert the bans. If they even look into the false bans or are simply too busy doing something else.
What? You suddenly think I started distrusting VAC out of the whim? You are wrong.
And this is coming from a guy who accused me of having a VAC banned account for disputing what VAC does. Of course, criticising VAC surely means I must be cheating! Take note of the culture VAC has formed with users that I outlined in the OP.
I am NOT anti-cheater, and I CAN in fact, show posts to prove this (1) (2). I am against lack of hard evidence to go on.
Where is your evidence for this?
I use their platform because I am forced to play some quite fun games that are otherwise unavailable non-launcher. I simply would not be using it otherwise. This has nothing to do with VAC.
Again, you have no evidence for this. As for my proof, I don't need to; Because there is no hard evidence to go on. Therefor, I distrust VAC. Besides, even if it were constantly updated, it still doesn't change the fact that it's not giving users a drop of information to contest their ban.
You may or may not know I am making bogus claims because there's no hard evidence to prove it. To me, it sounds like you too, are making bogus claims, because again, there's no evidence.
You also did not read what I said. I play Left 4 Dead 2 and cheaters are getting away with evading VAC, I know this because I've been seeing the same players month by month. I'd link them but that would be name and shaming, not allowed here.
Like you've been told, you just don't understand(or don't want to) how VAC works. If a simple ticket to the Support would make you know exactly what cheat got you banned, cheatmakers would instantly know what exact cheat is detected and could start working on it again. If they refuse to say why people get banned, cheatmakers don't know what is detected so more people who use cheat would use the detected cheat and get caught.
Also, what makes you think that a lot of VAC bans are false? Just because someone says he doesn't do anything doesn't make it true. Newsflash for you: people lie a lot.
And yes I have seen unbans from an appeal to support. If you read enough threads in this forum you can find accounts that were banned and no longer are. The moderator said the ban is permanent and locked the thread, but OP no longer has a ban at all.
Do I trust VAC? To do what it is designed to, yes. Do I trust support to look into a possible error, sure do.
Could it be better, for sure, anything made by humans can be improved upon and that is the job they are constantly doing. You can't just build an anticheat that works and walk away.
So let's just say I use an aimbot cheat and then get flagged a few weeks later by VAC. As the cheat maker, I immediately know why I've been VAC banned, because I was the one that cheated with the exact cheat in mind. And the other people within my cheat community also report that the cheat they bought containing the aimbot had also been flagged. So I will make the appropriate actions to immediately start changing the cheat. Asking Steam Support doesn't confirm anything to the cheater; He already knows.
That's not what I'm trying to get across. The question I'm asking is that can you really put your trust into a company that isn't willing to give you any hard evidence on why you've been flagged? For me, no. I don't trust them. Frankly I don't trust any anti-cheat system out there that uses a trust system, in the OP I linked one particular case where ArenaNet were exposed for false flagging users and one user in question found this out thanks to GDPR regulations. Yet this is the same type of system that companies like Valve use.
That's interesting, thanks for sharing your opinion.
If you distrust Valve that much...walk away...you literally have 16 games. Hardly that big of an investment, in a company you distrust so much....
...and of your 16 games, 3 use VAC.
No cheat = no VAC ban.
These VAC 'updates' probably does include L4D2. Which is what I was referring to. In other games, with the amount of active players in CS:GO and Dota 2, yes. We can be in agreement with that. Though updating also brings the risk of more potential false flags.
No. Being active for how many years has no effect on it. I could be using Steam for a couple of months, a couple of years. Doesn't matter in the slightest. I still need to use Steam to play the games in my library. I bought Black Ops I back in 2010 so I could play multiplayer with a family member. It is simply impossible otherwise. Would you forfeit paying your rent to your home if the council did not fix your electrical system? Of course you wouldn't. I'm not going to give up the games in my library in order to leave Steam.
There is a reason I am so minimalist in my purchases on a launcher. I have loads of other games on my hard drives that do not require Steam. Yet some games still do, which is why I still have to use Steam. Come to think of it, why are you so persistent in this? What in the world does this have to do with VAC?
The discussion is about whether or not you can trust VAC, not about how many of my games use VAC. If the game is fun enough, I will play it. Doesn't even require me to be online to play. You're poking at straws here. I bought these VAC games nearly a decade ago.
You cannot confirm this.
Most cheaters use more than one cheat at a time. Those selling cheats doesn't have only one thing in them. So, when you get banned, you can't know for sure which one was detected. But if you could simply ask the Steam Support, you would know. That's what you seem to have a lot of trouble to understand.
You were explained why they don't give hard evidence on why you've been flagged. You not wanting to understand or simply don't like it doesn't mean it is a bad thing. Also, talking about the ArenaNet thing is completely irrelevant since it has nothing to do with VAC or Valve.
The business with cheat making is profitable for a reason. If cheat makers were to suddenly be denied business because VAC had adapted to what they did, the cheaters obviously wouldn't be happy. The cheat makers know consistent updates are coming in very demanding games such as CS:GO and will already be adapting and predicting to what the future VAC update will change.
At the very least, VAC bans that have lasted for about a year should have information revealed as to why the ban triggered; I'm pretty sure VAC would've adapted way beyond the version the ban was triggered at, rendering any cheat maker questioning useless. This would at least give users the chance to appeal their ban once they have sufficient information to contest it.
You are right, but in my opinion, it is a bad thing for potential people out there that are falsely flagged by a system that nobody other than the company can investigate. Which leads me to the other quote below.
It is not completely irrelevant because both systems go under trust with the consumer and the company. If a player did not investigate the cheat detection themselves via information from GDPR, they would have never been unbanned, and this isn't counting the other players that were also banned in the process. They would have stayed unjustly banned with nobody on the other end wanting or caring to investigate the flaws of the anti-cheat detection system.
Yet Valve has never had a leaked VAC scandal aside from a possible violation of privacy (a Reddit post over five years ago) because their doors are so closed than nobody but themselves know.
How can we expect Valve to do the same when there is evidence to stipulate that this type of system is flawed?
Its their house it's their rules.
VAC is an anti cheat system used for certain games. If i had no faith in the system i would choose to not play those games and play other games instead.
You aren't entitled to any further explanation of the system beyond what Valve chooses to give you