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On the other side we have a people with a lot of stuff in their inventories and lack of good sane or knowledge about basic information defence, and big companies like Google, MS, Valve and so on implemented those methods "for the greater good".
Even though Google Chrome doesn't allow to download my very own programs and MS doesn't allow to run them. Sigh.
Of course everybody wins is sarcastic. But for him it is, he's not willing or able to use a smartphone, for him the best case is that everyone is in the same situation, no more 'apartheid' as some people like to call it. No more complaining that their minority phone OS isn't supported.
Valve gets what they want as a 3 day delay on trades seriously sours the pot for Hijackers.
3rd party sites can mostly work around it by moving ownership of items to a local inventory so moving winnings/trades from one person to another doesn't require an actual trade until that person withdraws their stuff.
As for trading, as you can see from my profile I've traded everything from unusuals to games to keys, these days it mostly involves keys. I know how a 3 day trade affects that, and I'm fine with that if that ends up being the solution (even when currently I'm on the good end of end it considering I do own an android smartphone)
I'm assuming your big point against 'Everybody wins' is that people don't want 3 day holds? Well suck it up. That's likely not a fight that's even being fought. The only question is if there will be a way around it or not, and if it's worth keeping around if the ways for shortening it still prove to be ineffective against hijackers.
This is a case of a smaller part of the community, the trading community and it's vulnerabilities, which are causing the entire Steam community to suffer, by causing a continual disproportionate strain on support for years. That, is why hijacking needs to be stopped, or at the very least it's growth halted. And that's why no matter how sour we might get about it this is very likely to stick around, this or similar heavy handed measures. Heck, they already stated the bulk of their digital traffic these days is already through the community market, that just adds to the perspective.
Is there a guarantee of they it's going to stay? Absolutely not. Who knows, they might fold on it. That's why it's perfectly understandable people try and complain about it, and maybe they will, and maybe they won't. Personally I doubt they will since it all makes too much sense, and I think that if they fold, people aren't going to be any happier with whatever alternative they'll come up with. Since things *will* change to deal with the hijackings situation.
Steam loses its tag to cater to PC gamers when they require smartphone for faster trading.
it's just no longer a PC(only) platform.
And you didn't address what I was trying to tell you. You turned a cheek on the post where I linked discussions filled with people fed up with escrow after you ased who even cared, those are the people have voiced their opinions against escrow. Is that "The fight not being fought"?
Look, i'm not disagreeing on the saftey that the three day wait brings. I'm disagreeing with the trade of freedom for security. I'm trying my hardest to represent the portion of the people who don't want to wait 3 days to trade. And this may not be as big a matter as other things, but it still influences alot of peoples day by day and casually.
I'm going to revisit a suggestion I brought up. Why make it required? If trading is such a small thing than why do we give it so much attention? If we simply give the attention password sharing has to hijacking we could lower the amount of hijacks, "Never click links you can't trust" or something along the lines of that every time you open up a chat.
Is it foolproof? No. But it can give players options.
Yes, the security for those who are getting tricked into being hijacked isn't as relevent, but is that the majority of hijacks? we could make the same system we had already but with mobile authenticator. No mobile/escrow = no steam support help. Anyone with a brain will use escrow/mobile authenticator or will know their limits, while anyone not using it will learn their lesson.
I only realized this recently but why are we being harsh to the whole trading community? Can't we be harsh to the people who make asses out of themselves, get phished and get us the terrible holds? It'll make the majority with brains happy.
TL;DR: theres no TL;DR, I applaud all the people that took the time to read this instead of skipping everything and just TL;DR'ing
Can you link this post so I can see the proper context? I highly doubt I would've asked 'who even cared'.
Because it's not a small thing. If you ask about the nr1 complaint about Steam? Support. And I have no doubt a majority of the waiting times involved there have been due to catering to the trading communities vulnerabilities, both scamming and hijacking.
And that does not just affect the trading community, that affects everyone that needs support.
Educating against scams only gets you so far and it's not like there hasn't been plenty available to read on that. It's not like people should be told to click links they don't trust, even more so when they started blocking them, again. And even if people did learn that, phishing's all about making a link appear trustworthy to begin with. They're not all obvious, and yes, most people will catch it, but I've seen the most attentive traders (including me) almost fall for it simply because it happened to catch them at a bad time, either sleepy or distracted, or for others their greed just blinds them and in their rush to get the trade done they forget simple safety measures. It's all a numbers game. Eventually some will fall for it, and that's all hijackers need.
The fact is, currently (too large a number of) people do not seem capable of proper security. Education wouldn't instantly solve that. Maybe in time but not now. And now is when it's a problem. So sure, perhaps they should focus on educating the people on proper trading practices (assuming they're planning on keeping the system around that long), but I won't fault them for fixing the problems they have now with other measures that actually have an effect when it's needed.
If you mean similar to the email system, under that system the number of accounts hijacked was still growing so clearly people can not be trusted with that responsibility.
Not to mention that that system doesn't solve anything. If people's accounts get hijacked, even when they disabled the email thing, they still got support. People still go and complain they lost their accounts and Valve still recovers them for them. And that part is the problem.
But that's not what people are saying is it? People are fine giving up their right to get their items recovered but I doubt as many people are willing to give up their right to have their account recovered. So in the end, not only are they still a target for hijackers to profit from (thus continuing to promote hijackers doing their thing), but they're also still a burden on support.
This is a measure after the fact. Maybe it would help longterm, but it won't solve anything right now, and knowing people if they'd ever get affected by it they'd just make alternate accounts to get around any tradeholds on them anyway and still be just as vulnerable as before.
http://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/0/492378806379747270/#p47 (that page contains all of the links I provided)
True, educating people will only go so far, and it's effect may take time, but it's also what we need. People who didn't know how to do math would continue to not know how to do math until we teach them how to do math, it's worth the acting to maintain our education.
Than Steam Support honestly needs to get a bit tougher, or nothing's going to change, either they'll heed to each sob story they see or they learn that they should only help those that listen to them. I'm guessing that should be decided by the workers at steam support though.
If people figure out that steam support won't make acceptions than people won't take as many unnecessary risks.
If it helps longterm than why not keep for longterm?
I still fail to see what that post has to do with me, or where it shows anything you claim I said. I'm not "Astori Heichalot"
Well, that's where the not recovering accounts part comes in, though I doubt they'll ever go that far. Consumer agencies would start circling like vultures if Valve would start not recovering people's accounts, regardless of how carelessly they lost access to it.
If it helps longterm than why not keep for longterm? [/quote]
Because it's doubtful it'd be that effective. Like I said, alt accounts get around any limitation. Only thing it takes is $5 and 30 days of waiting and you have a limitfree trading account again.
This is true, we've conditioned the playerbase into thinking that they can always get help for obvious or silly screw-ups, we'd have to reverse that, it's harsh, but thats how to teach people, first hand experience works the best.
May I also suggest we replace the current system of tolerence with a one-time recovery of all items and account, than request activation the security measures or not get anymore help?
Also, I think I misscommunicated, steam support should always help with recovering acounts, but not items. Especially if they don't have the security measures, but if we give them an example of what would happen than they would learn a bit better.
Than they can learn. Or they can sacrifice 5 dollars and 30 days over and over again. win-win for valve.