A scammers paradise

[Azzy the Avaricious]

Steam is practically the kingpin of online gaming distributors these days, however it's started to falter.

Used to, steam was a very exclusive service, that only the best of games could get into. However with the addition of Greenlight and Early Acces, and the lack of support or customer service has led to anyone being able to put a game up, for real money.

There have been counltess examples to date, but the one recently that really got to me was Grass Simulator.

Among the many, MANY other games made in unity in under a minute in an attempt to scrape in some cash, this one takes the cake. Not only was little to absolutely no effort put into it, but Steam put even less effort into controlling it, reviewing it, or doing anything whatsoever about it. And they've proven that they can hear the users, after what happened with Hatred.

So it's a matter of them not listening, it taking months and months of complaints and the biggest of youtubers calling a game out for them to remove a scammers game, because let's be honest... that's what they are.

It's not the lack of attention they pay to their users that bothers me, it's how unbelievably easy these problems are to fix.

I would say "I propose" for this, but ♥♥♥♥'s sake, noone at valve gives a damn about us.
One solution i thought of is to put the rating system for a game to use. If a game's rating plummets to 'Very Bad' or near it, and gets so many negative reviews, then it should be temporarily removed from the store page for review. This allows the users of steam to actually have some influence, it'll root out all the scam games, and it puts the rating system to use.

TL;DR
Reading isn't hard, go back up and read it :I

[Start_Running]

So you be okay with this if a game you liked/owned got pulled from your store and library for 'review' right?

[Satoru]

I love how the 'system is being abused' and is a 'paradise'

But somehow proponents have a problem coming up with actual 'scams' in numbers that would support the wide spread 'abuse'. Rather than addressing that these are 0.01% of the games on steam and thus are edge cases.

[Azzy the Avaricious]

Цитата допису Start_Running:

So you be okay with this if a game you liked/owned got pulled from your store and library for 'review' right?

A: I would not enjoy a game that widespreadly low-rated, it would obviously be majorly flawed.
I honestly can't think of a single game that low-rated that anyone would enjoy... your statement sounds genuinely like something someone who enjoyed that new "Dungeon Keeper" (Or whatever...) IOS game would say.

Цитата допису Satoru:

I love how the 'system is being abused' and is a 'paradise'

But somehow proponents have a problem coming up with actual 'scams' in numbers that would support the wide spread 'abuse'. Rather than addressing that these are 0.01% of the games on steam and thus are edge cases.

They're still a problem. People buy these games not knowing that they're massive wastes of money, and Steam deosn't do well with refunds. Plus, quality control has been eradicated from steam, resulting in a flood of shovelware and worthless games that SHOULD be put on free gaming websites, rather than being put up for MONEY on STEAM.

This is all a result of people only giving a damn about money, in the end; And it's pathetic.

[ACSlater2001]

I put the rating system to use all the time when purchasing games. I use common sense, and read the reviews to find out if a game is good or not, I don't just look at the price and the summary rating. I don't need Valve to decide for me what games are good and what games are scams, I can do that myself.

Also, Valve still makes money from these scam games whenever anyone buys them. Telling them to pull them from the store because some people felt the game was a scam would be like telling Walmart to pull certain shampoos from the shelves because people don't think they smell like Springtime Rain like the label says so.

[Satoru]

Note that you can't call it a 'scammers paradise' and claim there are 'countless examples' while not providing any and the ones you do provide account for 0.01% of all available steam games.

These are contradictory statements. You are claiming some kind of massive problem when you can't even show that said problem exists on the scale you are purporting. The numbers do not agree with the preception you are trying to create.

Grass Simulator isn't even a 'scam'. It does not mis-represent anything it does in any way. You may not like it. But you not liking it does not make it a 'scam'. Its just a game you don't like.

Even if a game is medeocre or bad. That isn't a crime. Such games existed in the retail space yet somehow the retail gaming market hasn't imploded upon itself. And no the Atari crash isn't relevant since the situation and economics back then have absolutely no correlation to the market of today.

Again I eagerly await any actual specific non-circular definition of 'scam' and 'shovelware' that does not boil down to "Stuff I don't like" because that's all you've actually described so far.

[supertrooper225]

People used to complain there weren't enough games to play. Now they complain there are too many games on Steam. People don't know what they want. Steam is not a haven or paradise for scammers and the only reason that people get scammed is because they allow themselves to. Then they don't want to be inconvenienced with actually learning from the experience, they would rather complain that Steam should be doing something about it while continuing their previous behavior. It is ridiculous.

We have more than enough tools on Steam to keep you from a game like Grass Simulator. Nobody is lying about that game...the proof of what it is lies right there on the store page. If you buy it....you are getting what you paid for. That is NOT a scam. The word scam has become nothing more than a buzz word used by people who love to overexaggerate.

[Azzy the Avaricious]

Цитата допису Satoru:

Note that you can't call it a 'scammers paradise' and claim there are 'countless examples' while not providing any and the ones you do provide account for 0.01% of all available steam games.

These are contradictory statements. You are claiming some kind of massive problem when you can't even show that said problem exists on the scale you are purporting. The numbers do not agree with your perception.

Grass Simulator isn't even a 'scam'. It does not mis-represent anything it does in any way. You may not like it. But you not liking it does not make it a 'scam'. Its just a game you don't like.

Again I eagerly await any actual specific non-circular definition of 'scam' and 'shovelware' that does not boil down to "Stuff I don't like" because that's all you've actually described so far.

You want examples?
Day One: Garry's Incident.
Grass Simulator (And every 'joke' simulator Goat Simulator Spawned.)
Air Control
Slaughtering Grounds
Skate Man Intense Rescue

These are just off the top of my head. And no, it's not that I 'Don't like' these games. That's not how I define it, so stop trying to twist my words into a different arguement completely.
Take Air Control for example. The game had fake pictures on the page, along with a fake description, and wasn't anything like what it said it was. That is, in a way, a scam for anyone that buys it. If you can't see that, then there's no use trying to explain it to you, because you're starting to sound like the kind of people that make these fake games. I do hope you don't condone what these people do, because it is stealing no matter how you swing it.

[Satoru]

Цитата допису 『Wrath』 MoonzWolf:

Day One: Garry's Incident.

Ah yes a common one where people have no idea what they're talking about

The only thing that game is guilty of is bad PR. Thats it. The game itself is somewhat uninspiring but I guarantee you'd never have even heard about it unless they had sent out those DMCA notices. The game is guilty of being 'dull'. That's it. It would have been relegated to the 'middle of the road boring uninspired game you'd quickly forget aobut' without those DMCA notices.

Selling boring uninspired games isnt a crime against humanity. If it was Desura would be on trial in the Hauge.

Grass Simulator (And every 'joke' simulator Goat Simulator Spawned.)

And again 'games you don't like' do not qualify as scams. Did said games mis-represent what they do? Nope! Why are said games scams? Are 'joke' games now illegal? Can devs no longer create 'joke' games? Why? Should we get rid of Surgeon Simulator and I am Bread then since by your critera these are 'scams' right?

And no, it's not that I 'Don't like' these games. That's not how I define it, so stop trying to twist my words into a different arguement completely.

I note that you have not 'defined' anything. You are claiming MASSIVE scams are happening. If you do, you'd better come up with an actual list that's more than the # of fingers on one hand. AND you'd better come up with an actual criteria.

Your 'list' already shows you're employing entirely aribitrary criteria for scams and are in fact ignorant of said games actual content. Thus one can only draw the conclusion you are deriving your criteria that you simply don't like those games. Since obviously you're not employing an actual objective criteria from which you can actual quantify said 'scam'.

Take Air Control for example. The game had fake pictures on the page, along with a fake description, and wasn't anything like what it said it was. That is, in a way, a scam for anyone that buys it. If you can't see that, then there's no use trying to explain it to you, because you're starting to sound like the kind of people that make these fake games. I do hope you don't condone what these people do, because it is stealing no matter how you swing it.

Great you've come up with 1 game out of 5000 on Steam that might even remotely qualify as a scam.

I note a distinct lack of 'scammers paradise' and 'massive fraud' going on if that's the best you can do. You can address EDGE CASES as they come about. But that's what they are. EDGE CASES.

[supertrooper225]

Цитата допису 『Wrath』 MoonzWolf:

Цитата допису Satoru:

Note that you can't call it a 'scammers paradise' and claim there are 'countless examples' while not providing any and the ones you do provide account for 0.01% of all available steam games.

These are contradictory statements. You are claiming some kind of massive problem when you can't even show that said problem exists on the scale you are purporting. The numbers do not agree with your perception.

Grass Simulator isn't even a 'scam'. It does not mis-represent anything it does in any way. You may not like it. But you not liking it does not make it a 'scam'. Its just a game you don't like.

Again I eagerly await any actual specific non-circular definition of 'scam' and 'shovelware' that does not boil down to "Stuff I don't like" because that's all you've actually described so far.

You want examples?
Day One: Garry's Incident.
Grass Simulator (And every 'joke' simulator Goat Simulator Spawned.)
Air Control
Slaughtering Grounds
Skate Man Intense Rescue

These are just off the top of my head. And no, it's not that I 'Don't like' these games. That's not how I define it, so stop trying to twist my words into a different arguement completely.
Take Air Control for example. The game had fake pictures on the page, along with a fake description, and wasn't anything like what it said it was. That is, in a way, a scam for anyone that buys it. If you can't see that, then there's no use trying to explain it to you, because you're starting to sound like the kind of people that make these fake games. I do hope you don't condone what these people do, because it is stealing no matter how you swing it.

Throwing around accusations is nothing but a cheap attempt to discredit people that have extremely legitimate points. Another thing, people got refunds for Air Control. And do you see it on the store now? No. The problem is that users overexaggerate issues and cherry pick examples to serve their own agenda.

All of those examples.....are 5 out of 5000. You do the math. You would have to try really hard to get scammed if you bought more than one of those titles.

[Start_Running]

Цитата допису 『Wrath』 MoonzWolf:

Цитата допису Start_Running:

So you be okay with this if a game you liked/owned got pulled from your store and library for 'review' right?

A: I would not enjoy a game that widespreadly low-rated, it would obviously be majorly flawed.
I honestly can't think of a single game that low-rated that anyone would enjoy... your statement sounds genuinely like something someone who enjoyed that new "Dungeon Keeper" (Or whatever...) IOS game would say.

And thats a bit short sighted on your part. Also you illustrate. If the majority doesn't like it, what does that matter... the majority can buy what they do like and want and leave the minority to buy what they want. That's how niche markets work.

And most mainstream markets start off as Niche-markets.

They're still a problem. People buy these games not knowing that they're massive wastes of money, and Steam deosn't do well with refunds.

So people made bad decisions. The mistake will teach them how to make better decisions.

I

Plus, quality control has been eradicated from steam, resulting in a flood of shovelware and worthless games that SHOULD be put on free gaming websites, rather than being put up for MONEY on STEAM.

You seem to be confusing your personal beliefs for what should be. I wager any game you could point at as an example there would be at least two people who'd say the opposite. Same goes for any game you actually like. Steam never really had QC, they just had a smaller catalog. The catalogs have grown as more and more publishers seek to place their catalogs on Steam.

This is all a result of people only giving a damn about money, in the end; And it's pathetic.

No it's the result of making the apparently flawed assumption that the consumer is capable of making good decisions. If a game is bad there's usually enough information available that anyone can tell if it's bad. If they need to go further there's always watching a let's play.