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討論區規矩與守則
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Fact: Mods are deemed by US copyright law, as well as a number of international treaties to be either derivative works, or original works, depending upon the extent of the changes made, previous agreements between parties involved, and other factors. To put it bluntly, under international law, modders *do* have the right to sell their work if they contract with the original developer, or an approved distributor which they did.
Fact: More then half of the paid mods rushed out in alleged protest used stolen art assets from other, previously released mods. To put it bluntly, a handful of people *stole* from mod makers in order to try and put both Bethesda and Valve into a bad legal position, specifically in hopes of getting rid of paid mods.
Fact: Paid mods have a very long history of existing. And people have been buying them for a very long time. You lost this war before you ever sought to begin it.
wrong while you state some valid points you missed 2 vital points .
1 not every game would have a devloper who didnt care if others made money out side the company and that could open up AAA companies making a mod for a popular game . why develop a whole game when you can make a mod that will have alot more mark up
2 greed exist and its not people who wanted to put valve in a bad position it was just people who wanted money that didnt care if they stole assets . infact its not even as simple as assets from another game or mod its in some cases the ip that is in the mod . doesnt matter if you make it from scratch the ip owner has the right to shut it down if money changes hands . there was a lotr mod for skyrim that got hit because they had a donation link on one of the web pages for the devlopment of the mod before this paid mod stuff
your side lost because people cant follow simple rules . this is why you cant have nice things
That is a horrible comparison. People sell croissants because they have a store and are selling stuff to make money. Modders make mods as a hobby/passion, maybe if they're good enough they get picked up by a company or release a mod as retail.
And the marriage comparison? You're missing the point. Modding was never about getting paid and it's a huge part of the PC community.
Modding doesn't have to be just one thing, any more than painting or filmmaking or game development or music does. Some people make music as a hobby, purely for the passion. Other people retain that passion but charge a fee for their work so they can pay the rent. Others still will exist that treat it as just a job. But the fact that some people treat it as just a job surely wouldn't make you say that music as a whole is that way. People making music out of passion haven't ceased to exist.
Or if you think they somehow have, and you're unhappy about that, do you similarly rail against people charging for music? What about games, should games be free too, so that people make the best possible works out of passion? Movies? Books?
What about whatever it is you do for a living? I'm sure it's something people value, but wouldn't it be so much more pure if you did it out of passion rather than charging your employer for your services?
All I'm suggesting is that different people be allowed to do things their own way, as long as none of them are hurting anyone. If someone wants to charge a fee for their mod, and they have the permission of the game-maker to do so, how is that worse than someone charging for a book they wrote or a croissant they baked?
I'm not missing the point, I'm disagreeing that it's a good point, and repeating it doesn't make it any more persuasive. The mere fact that things have always been done a certain way doesn't mean that they shouldn't change. Everyone travelled on foot or by horse before trains and cars were invented. That was what travel was. But travel having always been that doesn't mean people shouldn't have invented cars or trains or planes or whatever.
If you want to present an argument as to why a change should not happen, you have to actually do that, not just cite the fact that things haven't been that way in the past.
Also, aside from some important technical issues like are you really willing to purchase something that could get soon obsolete or abandoned from its creator and how do you put some form of DRM to a bunch of copied files, Skyrim's failed paid mod project was poorly presented: "Hey there, from now on all the mods that used to be free might get a price tag slapped on them. Bethesda likely won't lift a finger to ensure those mod will not break in the next update and while at it we'll also take 75% of the revenue, K?"
See you're blinded by your opinion that modders deserve money for their time. Yes, people deserve to make money when they put hard work into something. Problem is, like I said before and I'm saying again for god knows what reason since you're going to ignore me, modders dont get into modding for the money. But Wally, no Gus, stop. Please. I'm not continuing the circle. Modders don't get into modding for money because what are we discussing? Modders getting paid or not! If modders got into modding for money we wouldn't be having this discussion right now.
You have to understand, maybe you're younger and haven't been around for as long, but modding is one of the if not the biggets foundation of pc gaming and what seperates it from console gaming. If you want to kill that, and turn it into some DLC that the modders will get a small slice of, sure man, go ahead.
Who knows how many talented modders we, the community, have lost because of their everyday life commitments?
I can't read these sentences differently as "I want free stuff" anymore. Let people be free to manage their abilities and resources how they feel appropriate and stop this "passion & love" nonsense, thanks.
Overpirced mediocre sword reskins? Let 'em tank.
Entirely different gamemode/total conversion mod for a price? Why not? They're already around by the way, see Aperture Tag and Black Mesa.
Your logic is circular, Wally. Modders apparently don't get into modding for the money, therefore it's bad to charge for mods, which of course leads to modders not getting into modding for the money because it's the only option. And circular logic isn't logic.
Oddly enough, my comparisons exist to make my points, not yours. They have plenty of relevance to the principle that people charging for their work is isn't a problem, which is all they need to have.
I'm glad you agree. Would you then care to answer the question I posed in my last post? If a modder decides to charge a fee for the product of their hard work, why is that a problem? More importantly, why is it a problem for a modder to do that, but not a painter or a filmmaker or an author? A reason other than "because that's different to what modders have done in the past" which is not really a reason at all, as I have explained.
Ignore you? I have repeatedly addressed this very statement, which anyone can see if they want to look back over our last few posts. You do not speak for modders. You do not get to act like you're the authority on the motivations and desires of a huge and diverse group. Make an argument that doesn't rely on you being omniscient about what modders want and I'll be happy to address that too.
I'm well aware of what modding is and what it's always been, thanks; I grew up making Doom WADS and then Quake, HL mods, etc etc. I still make use of plenty of mods and I've the utmost respect for mod developers. Which is precisely why I don't like people claiming to speak for them.
Maybe try to make less assumptions? I haven't said anything about being happy with the small cut modders were getting with Skyrim. Being in favour of modders being able to charge for their work in principle is not the same thing as automatically loving everything about any particular implementation of that.
I don't personally think making something and then only getting a 25% cut of the money it makes is reasonable. I think it's pretty ridiculous to be honest, and I think people were right to be critical of Valve and Bethesda for their parts in that. And that wasn't the only problem with the Skyrim mods thing - changing compatibility and the like are also big concerns.
I'm not trying to "kill" free mods. Paid videogames haven't killed free videogames. Paid writing hasn't killed free writing. I'm just in favour of people being able to charge for their work, because I'd like them to be able to use that work to help support themselves if that's something they're interested in doing.
If modders didn't want to get paid, then why do some go on to get hired at development studios? They 2 guys who created CounterStrike were hired by Valve. Serellan (AKA The Rooster) was hired by Red Storm Entertainment, Wolfsong went on to be hired by GRIN. These are just a few I know off the top of my head that went on to be game developers after modding games previously (modders know the programs used to create games and have a portfolio of said mods to prove their work unlike those who study game design in a college and want to become designers).
There is nothing wrong with wanting to get paid for one's work. If a modder wishes to charge for his work, he (or she) should be able to. That people complain about it shows that they have no idea what is really happening in the world of gaming. Are there games that payware mods would work? Sure, just like there are games that they would not work. To say that there is no room for them is pure folly.
Patch mods, restorations and fixes have been around, making a game complete/fixing for years. I don't think it's right that the original companies get a cut of a fix/ completed story that was their responsibility to start with. Bring on the complete and game breaking bug free releases and we can talk about unicorn horn lances and story expansion mods for dollars. Until then, it's just asking for even the official patches to get cut early and mod patches posted by a company either publicly/covertly for a price.
1. Paid mods is a great idea
2. Modders should stop making mods given the communities response to the topic.
Unfortunately, there are two primary reasons why this won't work as intended. Firstly, there are far too many users who would abuse the system by flooding the store with junk or stolen mods. Secondly Valve have a terrible track record at policing their community submissions. You only have to look at the community hubs of some games to see them spammed with random anime GIF's, or even Greenlight at a ton of RPG Maker games and Unity asset stealing games.