Who's getting ripped off, Steam or Developers?

[Cake for Mumm-Ra]

I'm trying to decide if buying game keys from outside websites is hurting developers or Steam in general. There are a number of sites out there that sell you games that you can play on Steam. But there are also a few online stores that appear to be doing legal business that Steam doesn't want us talking about. Some of these companies names are word-filtered on Steam. I don't fully understand how it works, but you're basically buying CD keys that work here on steam - but you can the keys for way cheaper than just about anywhere else.

I've done some research already and have figured that buying from these sites are only mildly risky for the buyer. You can get insurance on your orders, for example. But the prices lead me to think somebody is missing out. I don't want to rip-off small companies, but I am definitely willing to find ways to save money on AAA titles.

Thoughts?

Also, mods please don't ban me lol, this is a legit question

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

Escrito originalmente por Cake for Žižek:

I'm trying to decide if buying game keys from outside websites is hurting developers or Steam in general. There are a number of sites out there that sell you games that you can play on Steam. But there are also a few online stores that appear to be doing legal business that Steam doesn't want us talking about. Some of these companies names are word-filtered on Steam. I don't fully understand how it works, but you're basically buying CD keys that work here on steam - but you can the keys for way cheaper than just about anywhere else.

I've done some research already and have figured that buying from these sites are only mildly risky for the buyer. You can get insurance on your orders, for example. But the prices lead me to think somebody is missing out. I don't want to rip-off small companies, but I am definitely willing to find ways to save money on AAA titles.

Thoughts?

Also, mods please don't ban me lol, this is a legit question

For bundle sites like Humble Bundle, Indie Gala, Groupees, etc., those are legit keys, generated by the developers/publishers, for distribution in that bundle. Same with a few sites associated with them, such as Humble Store and Gala Store, as far as I know.

If you buy those bundles, the developers/publishers will get the money. And the keys are unique and can be expected to work -- I've never had a problem with them not working, and since they're generated directly from Steam by the devs/pubs, they're unique and can be reasonably expected to work with no problem.

For sites that are the shady key resellers who don't seem to like to tell you how they get their keys -- or heck, why they'd sell you "insurance" on something that ought to work anyway -- I wouldn't buy from them.

First, buying from them doesn't give devs/pubs money. Unless you hate the developer or publisher of a game...
Second, these keys have been known to have problems -- such as being bought with stolen credit cards or being from the wrong region. Sometimes these keys aren't even supposed to be resold at all -- such as a press review copy being resold. There's been a huge scandal involving the Original Curators Group on Steam which was headed by a guy who basically demanded free keys in return for asking his reviewers to write good reviews, and was known for reselling those keys to others for profit. (He once complained that a game became free, because he had 21 keys of it!)

[ReBoot]

Escrito originalmente por eisberg:

Escrito originalmente por alexm.box:

As I wrote to ReBoot:
Because you don't know if they're legit or not, you're willing to deny good honest stores your busieness on the premise they might not be legit?

if they come up as unauthorized on keyradar.com, then yes I will deny my business with them. If they are truly legit, then they can go through the proces of becoming an authorized dealer. Unless they can prove 100% they do not particapte in any illegal or ethically wrong practices to get their keys, I cannot trust them, because they are in a industry that is dripping with illegal and ethically wrong activity and I have no way of knowing if they are participating in that or not. I can know they are not participating in that kind of activity if they simply go through the process of becoming authorized.

Well said!

[Mdk25]

Escrito originalmente por eisberg:

Escrito originalmente por alexm.box:

As I wrote to ReBoot:
Because you don't know if they're legit or not, you're willing to deny good honest stores your busieness on the premise they might not be legit?

if they come up as unauthorized on keyradar.com, then yes I will deny my business with them. If they are truly legit, then they can go through the proces of becoming an authorized dealer. Unless they can prove 100% they do not particapte in any illegal or ethically wrong practices to get their keys, I cannot trust them, because they are in a industry that is dripping with illegal and ethically wrong activity and I have no way of knowing if they are participating in that or not. I can know they are not participating in that kind of activity if they simply go through the process of becoming authorized.

I never asked you to trust anyone who's unauthorized or has been reviewed as a scammer.
But I don't see any reason not to by from legit, authorized by keyradar.com stores that sell Steam keys for less than their cost on Steam.

[ReBoot]

Escrito originalmente por alexm.box:

Escrito originalmente por eisberg:

if they come up as unauthorized on keyradar.com, then yes I will deny my business with them. If they are truly legit, then they can go through the proces of becoming an authorized dealer. Unless they can prove 100% they do not particapte in any illegal or ethically wrong practices to get their keys, I cannot trust them, because they are in a industry that is dripping with illegal and ethically wrong activity and I have no way of knowing if they are participating in that or not. I can know they are not participating in that kind of activity if they simply go through the process of becoming authorized.

I never asked you to trust anyone who's unauthorized or has been reviewed as a scammer.
But I don't see any reason not to by from legit, authorized by keyradar.com stores that sell Steam keys for less than their cost on Steam.

no one ever said anything against the legit third party stores.

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

That keyradar.com site seems useful. I ran through it several sites I know about and they all give the result that I expected.

The exceptions are Playism-Games.com (which is apparently too small to have a record, but I know it to be legit since it's the pubilsher's own site where they just happen to sell some other games), bundle-in-a-box.com (which was legit as far as I knew but no longer operates), and thegreenlightbundle.com (which I think hasn't been active in a while).

[76561198001062896]

Escrito originalmente por alexm.box:

I can't say for all the 3-rd party stores, I don't know them all, and obviously some might be scammers. But there is a lot of misconception about them in this thread,

Most of these sites don't use fake credit cards, hack developers or steal from buyers.
They simply buy games during Steam sales, and then re-sell them with a small markup.
For example: Steam puts Civ 5 on sale for 5$, while regular price is 20$. 3 Months later you want to buy the game, and the sale is long gone.
So your options are: to buy at full price (20$) from Steam, or for 7$ from a 3rd party site.
The developer wins - he got the money already during the sale, and now he got an additional person to play his game.
The users win - They don't need to wait for the sale to buy the game at a cheap price.
Steam doesn't lose - They still got their money (when they sold the game), but they will still cry about it as they wanted you to buy for 20$ and instead you "cheated" them and bought for only 5$ (during the sale, when the 3rd party site bough the game).

Is it illegal - definitiely not.
Is it against Steam policy - Not knowing the policy, the answer is definitely yes. Anything that makes Steam earn less money will definitely be against their policy.

If you're worried about your money - don't be.
With PayPal you can cancel any stransaction within 60 days,if you're scammed. And they tend to be on the customer's side.
With credit cards it's even longer (up to 6 months in some cases).

its not against steam policy to buy from third party sites

[76561198001062896]

Escrito originalmente por Quint the Robot Girl:

Escrito originalmente por Cake for Žižek:

I'm trying to decide if buying game keys from outside websites is hurting developers or Steam in general. There are a number of sites out there that sell you games that you can play on Steam. But there are also a few online stores that appear to be doing legal business that Steam doesn't want us talking about. Some of these companies names are word-filtered on Steam. I don't fully understand how it works, but you're basically buying CD keys that work here on steam - but you can the keys for way cheaper than just about anywhere else.

I've done some research already and have figured that buying from these sites are only mildly risky for the buyer. You can get insurance on your orders, for example. But the prices lead me to think somebody is missing out. I don't want to rip-off small companies, but I am definitely willing to find ways to save money on AAA titles.

Thoughts?

Also, mods please don't ban me lol, this is a legit question

For bundle sites like Humble Bundle, Indie Gala, Groupees, etc., those are legit keys, generated by the developers/publishers, for distribution in that bundle. Same with a few sites associated with them, such as Humble Store and Gala Store, as far as I know.

If you buy those bundles, the developers/publishers will get the money. And the keys are unique and can be expected to work -- I've never had a problem with them not working, and since they're generated directly from Steam by the devs/pubs, they're unique and can be reasonably expected to work with no problem.

For sites that are the shady key resellers who don't seem to like to tell you how they get their keys -- or heck, why they'd sell you "insurance" on something that ought to work anyway -- I wouldn't buy from them.

First, buying from them doesn't give devs/pubs money. Unless you hate the developer or publisher of a game...
Second, these keys have been known to have problems -- such as being bought with stolen credit cards or being from the wrong region. Sometimes these keys aren't even supposed to be resold at all -- such as a press review copy being resold. There's been a huge scandal involving the Original Curators Group on Steam which was headed by a guy who basically demanded free keys in return for asking his reviewers to write good reviews, and was known for reselling those keys to others for profit. (He once complained that a game became free, because he had 21 keys of it!)

im not sure what exacty the Original Curators Group has to do anything with third party key resellers

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

Escrito originalmente por Zetikla:

im not sure what exacty the Original Curators Group has to do anything with third party key resellers

Just wondering where those key resellers get their keys, especially the ones that aren't region-locked, and review copies distributed in somewhat larger numbers to unscrupulous reviewers (which there are quite a few) seems to be a plausible source.

[76561198001062896]

Escrito originalmente por Quint the Robot Girl:

Escrito originalmente por Zetikla:

im not sure what exacty the Original Curators Group has to do anything with third party key resellers

Just wondering where those key resellers get their keys, especially the ones that aren't region-locked, and review copies distributed in somewhat larger numbers to unscrupulous reviewers (which there are quite a few) seems to be a plausible source.

ah okay, makes sense then