Way Too Many 2D Games

[Fidelio]

When I browse for games on Steam it seems like almost all the games offered are these terrible 2D 3rd person games. Is that just a fad now or what?

[Dune Jumper]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Spawk:

Diposting pertama kali oleh eeemayle:

When I browse for games on Steam it seems like almost all the games offered are these terrible 2D 3rd person games.

Would you rather have 2D first person games?

That's not even possible! DUN DUN DUUUN

[APerfectCircle]

All I see is terrible AAA games

[Kargor]

They are easier to make, therefore more companies do it.

[Megaman.png]

2D is a problem? I'd rather play Braid or Dust than a Mass effect 3 any day

[Dannystaples]

Diposting pertama kali oleh eeemayle:

When I browse for games on Steam it seems like almost all the games offered are these terrible 2D 3rd person games. Is that just a fad now or what?

Yeah what Kargor (#7) said. Indie developers start off as one person or up to five - ten people in very small teams working on games with shoe string budgets normally. 2D platformers and things take relatively little effort and actual development to get them going. Unlike a full 3D game which requires a lot more actual hands on coding time due to increased complexity. Just think the difference between using a range of sprites for motion and character models compared to a 3D model that needs to be fully animated and textured to get the same effect.

That means they start off 2D, fools on the internet don't like keeping their money so they pour tonnes into them even though they are quite poor games. Multiply that by a couple of thousand sales and they have doubled tripled their money. That means they can expand the office and get more developers and make a bigger games.

It is just that Indie development is a cut throat industry. If people fail there is no endless publisher budget cushoning their fall. When they fall they don't often get a second chance. Which I personally think is a good thing. If it was too easy we'd end up with even more crap games on here than we already have.

It also means it takes a long time for any developers to get any meaningful revenue. Indie is still early which means most of the developers are still scrambling around on the first few rungs of the ladder. Sooner or later we will see some of the more successful developers appear victorious above the rest but we are a way off that yet.

It may even become possible that in the future one or two Indie devs become so successful that they can compete with the likes of AAAs with EA and Ubisoft on the boxes. Who knows.

What I do know is Steam needs to give us a way of removing Indie from the searches. I don't mind as such that they let so many crap games and shovel ware onto Steam but they don't give us any way of filtereing that crap out from the other games.

[Kargor]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Dannystaples:

That means they start off 2D, fools on the internet don't like keeping their money so they pour tonnes into them even though they are quite poor games.

Not necessarily. There are excellent 2D games out there (including "pseudo-3D" like isometric stuff, or 2D games using 3D technology); however, you have to look for them as they don't have marketing budgets that allow them to be on TV, in movie theaters and on posters everywhere around the world and get press coverage every month keeping people hyped long before the game is even finished.

With platforms such as Desura and Steam, however, there is no "need" to have a professinally developed game and a decent publisher to get into stores. You can be one guy with no game development skills making a crappy game in your spare time, and still have it on a sales platform that can potentially reach millions of people.

However, you can also be one guy or a small company with a lot of game development skills getting a really great game onto a sales platform that can potentially reach millions of people. There's two sides to Steam.

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Dannystaples:

Yeah what Kargor (#7) said. Indie developers start off as one person or up to five - ten people in very small teams working on games with shoe string budgets normally. 2D platformers and things take relatively little effort and actual development to get them going. Unlike a full 3D game which requires a lot more actual hands on coding time due to increased complexity. Just think the difference between using a range of sprites for motion and character models compared to a 3D model that needs to be fully animated and textured to get the same effect.

Slightly wrong.

2D platformers require less work to make them look good.

Though they require just as much thoughtfulness to actually design a good game, with things like a proper learning curve / dificulty ramp, a thematically interesting and coherent progression of level environments, an engaging narrative presented by story script or other means, and much more.

Of course, 3D games can present all these things, but they can also fail at them just as easily.

That said, a lot of indie games (including 3D indie games) probably came about on tight budgets and could probably improve on their narrative, design, etc. Though I wouldn't know since I haven't bought most of them...

...same probably applies to AAA games, from what I hear. Though again, I wouldn't know since I haven't bought most of them either.

[HLCinSC]

2d/indie games on the store does not prevent or take the place of 3d ones. It's a digital store there is room for everything.

[Fidelio]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Dannystaples:

Diposting pertama kali oleh eeemayle:

When I browse for games on Steam it seems like almost all the games offered are these terrible 2D 3rd person games. Is that just a fad now or what?

Yeah what Kargor (#7) said. Indie developers start off as one person or up to five - ten people in very small teams working on games with shoe string budgets normally. 2D platformers and things take relatively little effort and actual development to get them going. Unlike a full 3D game which requires a lot more actual hands on coding time due to increased complexity. Just think the difference between using a range of sprites for motion and character models compared to a 3D model that needs to be fully animated and textured to get the same effect.

That means they start off 2D, fools on the internet don't like keeping their money so they pour tonnes into them even though they are quite poor games. Multiply that by a couple of thousand sales and they have doubled tripled their money. That means they can expand the office and get more developers and make a bigger games.

It is just that Indie development is a cut throat industry. If people fail there is no endless publisher budget cushoning their fall. When they fall they don't often get a second chance. Which I personally think is a good thing. If it was too easy we'd end up with even more crap games on here than we already have.

It also means it takes a long time for any developers to get any meaningful revenue. Indie is still early which means most of the developers are still scrambling around on the first few rungs of the ladder. Sooner or later we will see some of the more successful developers appear victorious above the rest but we are a way off that yet.

It may even become possible that in the future one or two Indie devs become so successful that they can compete with the likes of AAAs with EA and Ubisoft on the boxes. Who knows.

What I do know is Steam needs to give us a way of removing Indie from the searches. I don't mind as such that they let so many crap games and shovel ware onto Steam but they don't give us any way of filtereing that crap out from the other games.

This answered my question. Thank you for your informative answer.

[4rchibald]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Spawk:

Would you rather have 2D first person games?

Diposting pertama kali oleh Dune Jumper:

That's not even possible! DUN DUN DUUUN

LOL
Not possible at all!
Seriously, how old are you guys?

Ofc it's possible to make first person game in 2d
ex. TES: Arena

[Dwerklesberry]

Very low cost to entry, so the markets flooded with this fad of retro, aka rebranding of no budget games.

But so many are terrible, the only way this will stop is if people just stop buying after a while.. Most of the games aren't even worth a dollar.

As for rungs on ladders, you have the big hits like mobile, candy crush/angry birds, and you then trail off to nothing. where is there to go from candy crush? Its a dead end. Many indies can't expand beyond their scope, so expansion is just not a long term possibility. You have zenga and its nonsense facebook games, Farmville etc, its all just a big money grab of shallow games. AAA games can expand their scope, expand their budgets, but whats the point of making angry birds sequels, its just more of the same, at the same level...

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

Many indies can't expand beyond their scope, so expansion is just not a long term possibility.

Why are you looking for expandability?

The point is to make a good game, not to make a teaser for a future game.

FYI, if you want some good 2D games, check my profile's infobox.

Edit: Reproduced the stuff currently in my infobox, here:

Games on Steam that I recommend:
* the Ys games, especially Ys Origin, and also Ys: the Oath in Felghana
* action JRPGs localized by Carpe Fulgur, including Recettear: an Item Shop's Tale and Fortune Summoners
* the action platformer and metroidvania Guacamelee
* the metroidvanias La-Mulana, Saira, Aquaria, and Anodyne
* the shmups Ether Vapor Remaster and RefleX
* the virtual board game 100% Orange Juice
* the adventure platformers DuckTales Remastered, Mutant Mudds Deluxe, Stealth Bastard Deluxe, Tobe's Vertical Adventure, and eversion
* the roguelikes One Way Heroics and Dungeons of Dredmor
* the visual novels/story adventures Dysfunctional Systems, episode 1: Learning to Manage Chaos and Nelson Tethers: Puzzle Agent

[4rchibald]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Spawk:

I'm not quite sure you know what 2D means. The Elder Scrolls: Arena had 3D environments.

Not sure you know that 2D means. Arena is flat as graphene, the perspective make it look different.
Even though there are games that meet 'your understanding' of first person 2d like the 'Duck hunt'

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

If I recall correctly, you're still navigating ES1:Arena as if it were a 3D environment, so it's a 3D game.

[gleofrocga]

2D games are bad? My childhood would be ruined without them.

Pokémon
Super Mario
Zelda
Worms

Arena is a 3D game, hint the geometry in the buildings. Things like enemies use 2D sprites that face you all the time. Alot of modern games do this, for example background trees that have leaves facing you.