Devs ban-hammering their forums like North Korea

[bvrakvs]

I never can understand why Valve gives such freedom to devs to silence and harass their own users/customers on their forums, devs don't own them, Valve rents out the space. In the end Valve should have some say when there are unfair decisions, but no, Valve says devs have complete autonomy in these spaces.

I have two examples,

1) on the release day of Diablo IV, I created a thread on their forums about the possibility of a Warcraft / older Diablo titles also coming to Steam, somehow that triggered a perma-ban from a Blizzard employee, there was nothing negative in the thread, and it was 100% unwarranted, and Valve staff said so, but they have no way to change a ban from the developers, so I contacted Blizzard, but they said they are not able to revert bans, and they don't even ban people on Steam. So now I am perma banned there, and neither Blizzard nor Valve can revert it.

2) just today on Homeworld 3 forums, I posted a thread asking people to wait for reviews before going in, because the devs have denuvo, I thought there might be some issues with the game, this somehow came back as a perma-ban in the end, which was 100% unwarranted again, and Valve agreed, they said it was excessive, but again unable to revert this developer decision.

I just don't agree with free reign given to devs on game forums, and Valve should have some say over such bs decisions. In the end this is Steam, and getting unfairly banned makes me hate Steam, and Valve as well, essentially they allow these 3rd parties hurt their brand.

tl;dr
I am not fighting for free speech really, I agree it is an impossible task to moderate forums in a way to keep everyone happy, but perma-bans by devs should be a special case where Valve needs to be involved, that's all there is to my point. It affects Steam accounts in the long term, and 3rd party devs should not have that power over people on Steam.

What do you think?

[Mad Scientist]

bvræqvete님이 먼저 게시:

Mad Scientist님이 먼저 게시:

It doesn't affect the steam account at all, you would just be unable to post in a game hub if banned from there or the main steam hubs for having too many bans from too many places within a short period of time. IT does not affect the account itself, just forum posting privileges.

It does affect, it triggers a profile restriction, and that essentially locks my profile, cannot post screenshots, post reviews, post comments on peoples things, do anything essentially,

You would be able to do everything else that matters. This includes playing any games one is not banned from. Community privileges affected by a community ban or game hub ban preventing using community functions for that section is normal.

Since you could still use friends, play games, buy games; it doesn't affect the account in any important way related to the playing games or purchasing them.

Multiple hub removals within a small time gives a community ban, and almost no one earns those, which is a strong warning in itself for individuals hit with such to improve their behavior or community function privileges can be revoked permanently.

[bvrakvs]

Mad Scientist님이 먼저 게시:

bvræqvete님이 먼저 게시:

It does affect, it triggers a profile restriction, and that essentially locks my profile, cannot post screenshots, post reviews, post comments on peoples things, do anything essentially,

You would be able to do everything else that matters. This includes playing any games one is not banned from. Community privileges affected by a community ban or game hub ban preventing using community functions for that section is normal.

Since you could still use friends, play games, buy games; it doesn't affect the account in any important way related to the playing games or purchasing them.

Multiple hub removals within a small time gives a community ban, and almost no one earns those, which is a strong warning in itself for individuals hit with such to improve their behavior or community function privileges can be revoked permanently.

I am not disagreeing, but just asking Steam to intervene in such cases where dev perma-bans unfairly, and neither dev or valve staff can take action, and it creates this state where account is prone to community restricted, there was a time when I got a lot of bans and nearly all of them were reverted after contacting Steam support, but now even once I get a ban for any reason, I get community restricted. It was meant to stop people who are getting hub bans concurrently in a short period of time, but due to my perma-ban stuck, it triggers for me at every point. The system is not perfect, there are many power hungry mods out there who ban people super unfairly, so I am walking on eggshells because can get community restricted at any point.

Also reviewing, posting screenshots, and interacting with my friends' posts is a big thing for me, not having those is a major issue. You don't decide what matters for others.

[Kerry]

bvræqvete님이 먼저 게시:

Mad Scientist님이 먼저 게시:

You would be able to do everything else that matters. This includes playing any games one is not banned from. Community privileges affected by a community ban or game hub ban preventing using community functions for that section is normal.

Since you could still use friends, play games, buy games; it doesn't affect the account in any important way related to the playing games or purchasing them.

Multiple hub removals within a small time gives a community ban, and almost no one earns those, which is a strong warning in itself for individuals hit with such to improve their behavior or community function privileges can be revoked permanently.

I am not disagreeing, but just asking Steam to intervene in such cases where dev perma-bans unfairly, and neither dev or valve staff can take action, and it creates this state where account is prone to community restricted, there was a time when I got a lot of bans and nearly all of them were reverted after contacting Steam support, but now even once I get a ban for any reason, I get community restricted. It was meant to stop people who are getting hub bans concurrently in a short period of time, but due to my perma-ban stuck, it triggers for me at every point. The system is not perfect, there are many power hungry mods out there who ban people super unfairly, so I am walking on eggshells because can get community restricted at any point.

Also reviewing, posting screenshots, and interacting with my friends' posts is a big thing for me, not having those is a major issue. You don't decide what matters for others.

Yeah, I'm getting the same thing.

[Shreddy]

If they want to allow a dev to ban people from their own little echo chamber of the forums that’s fine but it’s disgraceful that Valve allows cowboys (some of which sell no games on steam) to affect the functionality of a paying customers steam account with automated community bans. They should simply remove automated community bans or make it so that a valve employee needs to manually verify each one has been given correctly. I have had around ten community bans and every single one was overturned as soon as I got a real person to look at it.

[Kerry]

Shreddy님이 먼저 게시:

If they want to allow a dev to ban people from their own little echo chamber of the forums that’s fine but it’s disgraceful that Valve allows cowboys (some of which sell no games on steam) to affect the functionality of a paying customers steam account with automated community bans. They should simply remove automated community bans or make it so that a valve employee needs to manually verify each one has been given correctly. I have had around ten community bans and every single one was overturned as soon as I got a real person to look at it.

Yeah, bigtime agreement. Every time I get a disciplinary action from a community hub, I get an automated community ban. I'm one away from permanent - and I literally have no other way to contact some of my closest friends.

[HikariLight]

Shreddy님이 먼저 게시:

If they want to allow a dev to ban people from their own little echo chamber of the forums that’s fine but it’s disgraceful that Valve allows cowboys (some of which sell no games on steam) to affect the functionality of a paying customers steam account with automated community bans. They should simply remove automated community bans or make it so that a valve employee needs to manually verify each one has been given correctly. I have had around ten community bans and every single one was overturned as soon as I got a real person to look at it.

The OP refused to read the rules and then broke said rules.
Not reading the rules and then getting in trouble for breaking them and being upset for being punished is just being ignorant.
Always look for rules.

[bvrakvs]

HikariLight님이 먼저 게시:

Shreddy님이 먼저 게시:

If they want to allow a dev to ban people from their own little echo chamber of the forums that’s fine but it’s disgraceful that Valve allows cowboys (some of which sell no games on steam) to affect the functionality of a paying customers steam account with automated community bans. They should simply remove automated community bans or make it so that a valve employee needs to manually verify each one has been given correctly. I have had around ten community bans and every single one was overturned as soon as I got a real person to look at it.

The OP refused to read the rules and then broke said rules.
Not reading the rules and then getting in trouble for breaking them and being upset for being punished is just being ignorant.
Always look for rules.

I did not submit to nazism, or supported genocide, or any insane stuff that would trigger an immediate perma-ban, the bans I received did not even have a reason in the message, I did not break any said rule, just devs whim, or maybe even a mistake by the dev.

Supporting a dev perma-banning anyone without any reason as a first act is just not normal.

[Kerry]

bvræqvete님이 먼저 게시:

HikariLight님이 먼저 게시:

The OP refused to read the rules and then broke said rules.
Not reading the rules and then getting in trouble for breaking them and being upset for being punished is just being ignorant.
Always look for rules.

I did not submit to nazism, or supported genocide, or any insane stuff that would trigger an immediate perma-ban, the bans I received did not even have a reason in the message, I did not break any said rule, just devs whim, or maybe even a mistake by the dev.

Supporting a dev perma-banning anyone without any reason as a first act is just not normal.

Man has a point. Steam encourages people to warn first, then ban.

[nullable]

starbuck님이 먼저 게시:

I agree with the OP here, the devs shouldnt be able to censure and ban like they are able to at current time. Its being misused to limit bad/honest info all in the name of 'keeping it game related' which it tecnically is.
Its about censure and freedom of speech and steam chose to give that role to a third party to avoid repurcussions in the fallout.

Game forums are private property. Private property isn't protected by "free speech". Free speech refers to government silencing speech. Not the owner of private property telling you to GTFO.

Problem is a lot of users seem to forget that their rights end where others rights begin. And developers have plenty of rights to space they own and pay for, like it or not.

The other thing users seem to do is expect Valve to be gaming's mom, and they imagine if the complain to Valve then Valve will make the developer be nice to them. Only that's not the reality of everyone's relationship.

starbuck님이 먼저 게시:

Almost every single comment on this thread is a troll who happily condone the new world order of things and have forgotten what their grandparents fought for.

I don't think my grandparents fought for the right of know-nothings to run amok on someone else's property without consequences or crying free speech when they don't like the consequences of their actions.

Among other things your grandparents fought for freedom and that means everyone has some, not just customers.

starbuck님이 먼저 게시:

All i can say is dont fincaially support games and devs who use shady tactics and remove negative comments instead of comunicating on why and give apology where needed instead.

And ofc, dont ever support games using Denuvo, for obivous reasons that most still cant see what Denuvo is really about.

I quit blizzard gamiens many years ago after their WoW changes in regards to censureship and total control, its not a company worth supporting (owned by Tenton in large btw, a chinese gigacorp enforcing censure and control in all their games)

Yes, voting with your wallet is the appropriate response. Not all the free speech fantasies people misuse to try and supersede everyone else's rights.

[bvrakvs]

I am not fighting for free speech really, I agree it is an impossible task to moderate forums in a way to keep everyone happy, but perma-bans by devs should be a special case where Valve needs to be involved, that's all there is to my point. It affects Steam accounts in the long term, and 3rd party devs should not have that power over people on Steam.

Maybe devs should not have the ability to perma ban people, and have limits on the period of bans they can hammer, if they need to ban for longer or perma ban, they need to apply for a valve person to OK it?

[Kerry]

bvræqvete님이 먼저 게시:

I am not fighting for free speech really, I agree it is an impossible task to moderate forums in a way to keep everyone happy, but perma-bans by devs should be a special case where Valve needs to be involved, that's all there is to my point. It affects Steam accounts in the long term, and 3rd party devs should not have that power over people on Steam.

Maybe devs should not have the ability to perma ban people, and have limits on the period of bans they can hammer, if they need to ban for longer or perma ban, they need to apply for a valve person to OK it?

I fully agree with you.

Devs and mods should not have the ability to permanently ban unless Valve is involved, reviews the ban, and the evidence.

Even if it's just to make sure that the devs and mods are not breaking the rules of Steam themselves when issuing said bans.

[BOBTOMAS]

bvræqvete님이 먼저 게시:

I never can understand why Valve gives such freedom to devs to silence and harass their own users/customers on their forums, devs don't own them, Valve rents out the space. In the end Valve should have some say when there are unfair decisions, but no, Valve says devs have complete autonomy in these spaces.

I have two examples,

1) on the release day of Diablo IV, I created a thread on their forums about the possibility of a Warcraft / older Diablo titles also coming to Steam, somehow that triggered a perma-ban from a Blizzard employee, there was nothing negative in the thread, and it was 100% unwarranted, and Valve staff said so, but they have no way to change a ban from the developers, so I contacted Blizzard, but they said they are not able to revert bans, and they don't even ban people on Steam. So now I am perma banned there, and neither Blizzard nor Valve can revert it.

2) just today on Homeworld 3 forums, I posted a thread asking people to wait for reviews before going in, because the devs have denuvo, I thought there might be some issues with the game, this somehow came back as a perma-ban in the end, which was 100% unwarranted again, and Valve agreed, they said it was excessive, but again unable to revert this developer decision.

I just don't agree with free reign given to devs on game forums, and Valve should have some say over such bs decisions. In the end this is Steam, and getting unfairly banned makes me hate Steam, and Valve as well, essentially they allow these 3rd parties hurt their brand.

tl;dr
I am not fighting for free speech really, I agree it is an impossible task to moderate forums in a way to keep everyone happy, but perma-bans by devs should be a special case where Valve needs to be involved, that's all there is to my point. It affects Steam accounts in the long term, and 3rd party devs should not have that power over people on Steam.

What do you think?

I think you should consider this:
Freedom of speech is only the right to the owners of the publisher's forum.
Freedom of speech is only for sponsored participants.
The discussions of publishers in the forums are all in favor of their moderators.
Trying to propose its own point of view is impossible in the forums of the publishers: if you are a constructive person and expose a bug as politely as possible; You are risking being banned.
So in our liberal world; Freedom is the property of those who hold the power .

[bvrakvs]

I am not talking about the freedom of speech, I am talking about the perma ban power of devs and how Valve is powerless to do anything about it, stop politicizing things jeez

[BOBTOMAS]

bvræqvete님이 먼저 게시:

I don't talk about freedom of speech, I only talk about the perma ban power of devs and how Valve is powerless to do anything about it, stop politicizing things jeez

The "perma ban power" is the way for stop your freedom of speech.

[bvrakvs]

EFFE님이 먼저 게시:

bvræqvete님이 먼저 게시:

I don't talk about freedom of speech, I only talk about the perma ban power of devs and how Valve is powerless to do anything about it, stop politicizing things jeez

The "perma ban power" is the way for stop your freedom of speech.

I am worried about the "permanent" part, not so much for the bans, I think they should be able to ban people, there are a lot of maniacs out there, but I also agree that there is a conflict where devs can silence valid criticism and grievances about their games and make it so that there are no issues.