You don't own your Steam games

[Rallianto]

This is a surprise to me. I always thought Steam were consumer friendly and let you buy and own games. I was very wrong. Steam is able to revoke ANY game at ANY time, without you being able to do ANYTHING about it. Just too bad. Pay full price $60 ($70 if you ask Sony) like you would for a physical (real) copy, but Steam can take it away the next second if they so desire.
You are also not allowed to re-sell you games!!!
Imagine if Apple said "You cannot resell you iPhone".
You cannot TRADE or SELL you game you paid full price for - like you could with a REAL COPY of the game. Why are the Steam fake copy the same price as a real copy?
Are people aware, you do not in ANY way own the games you bought on Steam?

[Jamebonds1]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από William Shakesman:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Jamebonds1:

Except, 0 DRM don't give you an ownership.

We're running into an issue here where nobody agrees on what ownership means and this post is 100% proof of it. The argument starts with "I don't want corporations to be able to degrade my games after I pay for them and revoke my games unilaterally" "No that's their right you don't own your games. You have no right to demand that of corporations." but to get to arguing about ownership here after the initial claim has been resolved by GOG's format meeting every single complaint in the original argument is a result of splitting hairs ever more fine because there is no established definition of "ownership" with testable criteria.

Main reason I saw is misunderstood what ownership really mean.

[Psychlapse]

Not quite sure how this thread has gone on for over 330 comments.

You never own any IP you use. For videogames, you own the physical media, but you do not own the game thats on it.

It's the same for movies on dvd, blu Ray, vhs, betamax etc.
It's the same for music on cd, tape, vinyl etc.

You own the dvd, but not the movie. You own the record, but not the song, and you own the disc or cartridge, but not the game. The actual IP is owned always by the people who made it, or agents for them.

All you ever owned and ever will own is the physical media and the license to use the information on it for its intended purpose.

You are allowed to back up data to preserve the original, but not distribute copies to anyone else to use. One user, one license.

All the advent of digital stores has done is make it easier to enforce the above, by way of tying a license to an account.

DRM had existed in many forms for decades, such as code wheels, games pausing to ask you a question where the answer is in the manual. It's always been illegal to distribute copies of games, it's just never been easily enforceable.

Piracy was a plague in the 80s and 90s, hence the decades long struggle to put an end to it, and digital DRM is just the latest step.

[Jamebonds1]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Psychlapse:

Not quite sure how this thread has gone on for over 330 comments.

You never own any IP you use. For videogames, you own the physical media, but you do not own the game thats on it.

It's the same for movies on dvd, blu Ray, vhs, betamax etc.
It's the same for music on cd, tape, vinyl etc.

You own the dvd, but not the movie. You own the record, but not the song, and you own the disc or cartridge, but not the game. The actual IP is owned always by the people who made it, or agents for them.

All you ever owned and ever will own is the physical media and the license to use the information on it for its intended purpose.

You are allowed to back up data to preserve the original, but not distribute copies to anyone else to use. One user, one license.

All the advent of digital stores has done is make it easier to enforce the above, by way of tying a license to an account.

DRM had existed in many forms for decades, such as code wheels, games pausing to ask you a question where the answer is in the manual. It's always been illegal to distribute copies of games, it's just never been easily enforceable.

Piracy was a plague in the 80s and 90s, hence the decades long struggle to put an end to it, and digital DRM is just the latest step.

You still don't own DVD. It belong to Sony and/or Philip. Any physical media belong to a company that make them.

[Dr.Shadowds 🐉]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Psychlapse:

Not quite sure how this thread has gone on for over 330 comments.

You never own any IP you use. For videogames, you own the physical media, but you do not own the game thats on it.

It's the same for movies on dvd, blu Ray, vhs, betamax etc.
It's the same for music on cd, tape, vinyl etc.

You own the dvd, but not the movie. You own the record, but not the song, and you own the disc or cartridge, but not the game. The actual IP is owned always by the people who made it, or agents for them.

All you ever owned and ever will own is the physical media and the license to use the information on it for its intended purpose.

You are allowed to back up data to preserve the original, but not distribute copies to anyone else to use. One user, one license.

All the advent of digital stores has done is make it easier to enforce the above, by way of tying a license to an account.

DRM had existed in many forms for decades, such as code wheels, games pausing to ask you a question where the answer is in the manual. It's always been illegal to distribute copies of games, it's just never been easily enforceable.

Piracy was a plague in the 80s and 90s, hence the decades long struggle to put an end to it, and digital DRM is just the latest step.

^This, and I agree not sure why this discussion gone so many posts because it's not new, it's not even recent either, as well not sure why some people can't understand simplest answer given to them.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Jamebonds1:

You still don't own DVD. It belong to Sony and/or Philip. Any physical media belong to a company that make them.

Not quite, when comes to physical things, you kind of do own it since that what sold to consumer since it's a physical product, of course I don't mean IP rights to making the product you still don't own rights to that lol, but you can do almost anything to it really like sell it off, borrow, gifting, and so on, the only issue that be is what in the physical product such as media content for games, movies, OS, etc software, those are content you can't really own and are often bound to said physical product, meaning can't just make a copy, and gift / sell it. Even with games that say on the box not for resale that doesn't mean consumer can't resell it that just for store partnership with said company to not accept those games for resale like Gamestop, walmart, or etc... Now of course if those stores chooses not to make partnership agreement with said company, normally ma and pa shops they can just take it, and resell it.

Anyways it's just comes down how licenese are setup, how you can access, and use the content.

[yeeck]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Dr.Shadowds 🐉:

Anyways it's just comes down how (licenses) are setup, how you can access, and use the content.

Excellent explanation.
Now, just hope readers will stay humble, and try to read-learn-understand on the real facts, before start posting.

[El Cacharro]

imagine not playing f2p games

[yeeck]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από DxvidIsHere ツ:

imagine not playing f2p games

LOL!
Please elaborate.
Isn't a f2p is just another business model?

It is kind of you pay early, suffer early but enjoy later.
But if you enjoy early, you pay later and still suffer but later...

[Alcoholic]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Dr.Shadowds 🐉:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Zorgλ:

Why are then people still selling their accounts with games and making profit?

Ask why the same people that got caught get their account locked, and banned, trying to justify an action that is wrong doesn't overrule the consequences that may comes with it. And I haven't gone over the scams that happens in this area either such as scammers selling stolen accounts, or the fact scammers take the account back scamming victims to paying for something that not theirs to begin with.

You can read the ToS stating your account not for resell, nor is to be lease/rent, loan/borrow/tranfer out to anyone. #1-C Account.
https://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/

No one respects any of that from ToS you mentioned. And the ones that get caught are the amateur ones. The professional ones are going to give you the least amount of info for account that you want to buy as possible and they are not going to advertise it on every possible platform.

And when the guy sells you an account Valve has 0 knowledge if that account is sold or not

And since you mentioned it is forbidden to borrow accounts, that's just plain stupid and it should be removed from ToS. Firstly, they aren't going to find out about it, secondly it isn't end of the world if i give my brother my account to try some games for example

[Dr.Shadowds 🐉]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Zorgλ:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Dr.Shadowds 🐉:

Ask why the same people that got caught get their account locked, and banned, trying to justify an action that is wrong doesn't overrule the consequences that may comes with it. And I haven't gone over the scams that happens in this area either such as scammers selling stolen accounts, or the fact scammers take the account back scamming victims to paying for something that not theirs to begin with.

You can read the ToS stating your account not for resell, nor is to be lease/rent, loan/borrow/tranfer out to anyone. #1-C Account.
https://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/

No one respects any of that from ToS you mentioned.

No one said you had like it, but the TOS doesn't magically go away because someone opinion it there for a reason. Much like how at zoo with signs say don't enter lion cage you will be killed by lion, will you jump in the lion cage because you dislike the sign??? Clearly you wouldn't with common sense, but would you just because you wanted to despite the warning sign?

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Zorgλ:

And the ones that get caught are the amateur ones. The professional ones are going to give you the least amount of info for account that you want to buy as possible and they are not going to advertise it on every possible platform.

Doesn't matter being amateur, or not the fact is the rules doesn't change, nor do they stop existing, and scammer do this to con people to buying account, as it's not hard to recover when have original ownership info hence the point why scammers do it. Doesn't take a rocket science to figure out what can go wrong.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Zorgλ:

And when the guy sells you an account Valve has 0 knowledge if that account is sold or not

They can know if support get involved checking the account if they believe there conflicts answers to their questions such as recovery, or how often account has to be recovered. There other methods as well but that can vary.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Zorgλ:

And since you mentioned it is forbidden to borrow accounts, that's just plain stupid and it should be removed from ToS. Firstly, they aren't going to find out about it, secondly it isn't end of the world if i give my brother my account to try some games for example

For starters yes they can know if there activities with account such as multiple locations sign in across the globe/regions, they can know when multiple people fighting to sign in from multiple devices on different networks at same time, and they can know base on the devices account signs into.

The point of this is to deter those from trying to abuse service to make profit from it, and to scam others that what you failed to understand of the TOS, this is to protect business against abusive consumers, but also protect consumers from making bad decisions.

[Psychlapse]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Jamebonds1:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Psychlapse:

Not quite sure how this thread has gone on for over 330 comments.

You never own any IP you use. For videogames, you own the physical media, but you do not own the game thats on it.

It's the same for movies on dvd, blu Ray, vhs, betamax etc.
It's the same for music on cd, tape, vinyl etc.

You own the dvd, but not the movie. You own the record, but not the song, and you own the disc or cartridge, but not the game. The actual IP is owned always by the people who made it, or agents for them.

All you ever owned and ever will own is the physical media and the license to use the information on it for its intended purpose.

You are allowed to back up data to preserve the original, but not distribute copies to anyone else to use. One user, one license.

All the advent of digital stores has done is make it easier to enforce the above, by way of tying a license to an account.

DRM had existed in many forms for decades, such as code wheels, games pausing to ask you a question where the answer is in the manual. It's always been illegal to distribute copies of games, it's just never been easily enforceable.

Piracy was a plague in the 80s and 90s, hence the decades long struggle to put an end to it, and digital DRM is just the latest step.

You still don't own DVD. It belong to Sony and/or Philip. Any physical media belong to a company that make them.

Nope.

"The disc itself is yours. But copyright law says that while the actual disc is yours (the metal and plastic you hold in your hand), you do not own the music which is contained on the disc. That is owned by the copyright holders and performers whose performance and music are on the disc."

[Jamebonds1]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Psychlapse:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Jamebonds1:

You still don't own DVD. It belong to Sony and/or Philip. Any physical media belong to a company that make them.

Nope.

"The disc itself is yours. But copyright law says that while the actual disc is yours (the metal and plastic you hold in your hand), you do not own the music which is contained on the disc. That is owned by the copyright holders and performers whose performance and music are on the disc."

Actually, it was trademarked, so you don't own DVD format instead you are licensed to use a DVD format in fair use.

https://trademarks.justia.com/owners/dvd-format-logo-licensing-corporation-3439152/

[Blue]

It's not like it matters.

The problem to most is that everything online is beyond your control. If for whatever reason the wish to revoke your access they can do.

Something that isn't realistically possible on hard media. Sure you can revoke the license but it doesn't get the content out of the users hands.

[Psychlapse]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Jamebonds1:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Psychlapse:

Nope.

"The disc itself is yours. But copyright law says that while the actual disc is yours (the metal and plastic you hold in your hand), you do not own the music which is contained on the disc. That is owned by the copyright holders and performers whose performance and music are on the disc."

Actually, it was trademarked, so you don't own DVD format instead you are licensed to use a DVD format in fair use.

https://trademarks.justia.com/owners/dvd-format-logo-licensing-corporation-3439152/

Against my better judgement I've just spent 10 minutes googling trying to fact check that and come up with zip.

Regardless we're talking about games, not DVD movies.

[Chocolate Pie Kitten]

We never owned the games even in the physical cd era. The games were always under licence.

The difference now is that publisher have now the tools to revoke this licence in case of piracy or

other problems and that we can no more sell the games . But an era of digital copies selling

used games would be a disaster for publishers, developpers , games selling platforms and finally

for consummers .

And for paying full prices there is still the sales that are numerous and usually important.

[Jamebonds1]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Psychlapse:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Jamebonds1:

Actually, it was trademarked, so you don't own DVD format instead you are licensed to use a DVD format in fair use.

https://trademarks.justia.com/owners/dvd-format-logo-licensing-corporation-3439152/

Against my better judgement I've just spent 10 minutes googling trying to fact check that and come up with zip.

Regardless we're talking about games, not DVD movies.

Please check my source. It is trademarked.