Steam, We need to have a serious chat about trolls

[Hatsune Miku]

Honestly, I've been a member of steam for what...11...12 years now and I've seen this platform grow into the power house it is today, but unfortunately that comes with a price and that is the ever growing and abusive trolls base that Steam just wants to sweep under the carpet and pretend it just isn't there.

The fact right now, the trolls have all the power to actually hurt anyone, legitimate or not. Flagging Trolls, Review Bombers and everything else in-between, legitimate users have nearly no power at all - steam treats many users with contempt and mistrust it seems, often even siding with trolls just because, it seems like its just the easier option.

I've said it several years ago that steam needs to start changing its policies, and it desperately needs to update its platform too. Even the online publication "Kotaku" has touched upon this very subject by labelling them 'false postive trolls' with an article that was released in late Feb 2018.

We could get really down and dirty with many of the finer aspects of this, because lets face it - trollin' is going to happen no matter what, you're going to get bored kids or channers raiding profiles for 'easy pickings' and most of the time, that account owner can't do anything about it and you just can't pretend that problem is there, or ignore it - chances are; you're account is going to get compromised somehow.

Flagging Trolls, this honestly is a two part problem. Steam really needs to change its policies and protections for the consumers, especially with opening the flood gates to anime and even adult oriented games. Essentially, right now - the current rules are simply not good enough at all, the fact you could buy pretty any anime type of game that shows even a little bit of skin and that'll attract sjws, or trolls soo, Lets not even get into deeper issues of nudity here.

Case and point, If steam is going to sell adult based games or anime based games, the rules need to change as well. You can't sell the game, and then punish the player for taking in-game screen shots. Steam has to figure this out, right now - this aspect alone is a serious issue for me? I'm facing a 14 day ban because I attracted a few trolls who are flagging anime girl screenshots that are not even remotely NSFW...because? Trolls naturally, they can get away with it with abusing the system, if not - and face an account ban? No big deal because almost always trolls are Level 0 anyway, so no big deal if they get banned, they can just remake.

Essentially, if you buy a game on steam - you should be allowed to post screenshots/video or broadcast *everything* that game has to offer without exception, now that doesn't mean patches or uncensored content should be allowed but the end user should not be punished at all for buying a product on steam and right now, that isn't the case - this is a problem! Perhaps if steam isn't going to change on its policies, then games need to be properly vetted for any potential violations, but you know what? That'll never happen because we're talking money...its easy to take money from developers and publish games on steam and then just punish the end user for buying the game.

Screenshots themselves, really could do with a better system in place. Proper NSFW labels or even having screenshots set to friends only would be a start. But the best solution here is actually changing the system to prevent flagging trolls in general, the fact right now - I could personally flag thousands of screenshots and they would actually *get* removed and the account owners penalised speaks volumes on the scope of this problem. The fact right now, I could sift through thousands of Witcher 3 sex scenes and flag them just because I can? Again, is a problem - Steam needs to start working on its image, less hypocritical notions would be a start.

This needs to change, I think its about time serious account restrictions are placed on new accounts, and even accounts that are not vetted or under a certain level // # of games for example, and I'm not talking about bundle packs either, actual steam sales on the account, that would make people think twice before trolling and risk losing their own account priveleges.

Lets not even bother with all the other trolls - we all know they exist and its becoming a problem. GoG is starting to become a serious competitor now, and has a far less problem when it comes to issues like this; I'm not alone here in thinking this way, So - for people like me who have spent serious money over the years on steam, supported steam for many years - its about time, steam starts to protect its end user base better. I know, its not an easy problem to fix, but simply ignoring it and fixing the damage trolls cause here and there in the long run, is probably going to hurt everyone.

The fact that trolls could even respond to this tread to get it locked or derailed by the mods again, speaks volumes on the actual scale of the problem.

[Gallifrey - CSSC Gaming Founder]

The problem is that there are a number of paedophile profiles, groups, and even at one stage a curator on Steam.

The manga/ anime games are a fertile breeding ground because the wide eyed manga style makes characters look younger. Also Japan has no restrictions on indecent drawings and was one of the last major economies to criminalise indecent photos of children.

The sexualisation of school girls also seems more prevalent in Japanese culture than elsewhere.

There's an ongoing "war" between the groups and individuals who want to promote sexualised images of, I'll say young peoople, and those that are trying to drive them and the content off Steam.

Steam's problem is that it has a user base the size of a medium to large country and inadequate resources or desire to police everything anyone uploads. Thus it relies on reactive community policing - Steam users who see offensive content to report it.

Trying to police a community drawn from every corner of the world with widely different standards is a thankless task and all Steam can do is set out its rules and enforce them as best it can.

S.x.

[Hatsune Miku]

Originalmente postado por gallifrey:

The problem is that there are a number of paedophile profiles, groups, and even at one stage a curator on Steam.

The manga/ anime games are a fertile breeding ground because the wide eyed manga style makes characters look younger. Also Japan has no restrictions on indecent drawings and was one of the last major economies to criminalise indecent photos of children.

The sexualisation of school girls also seems more prevalent in Japanese culture than elsewhere.

There's an ongoing "war" between the groups and individuals who want to promote sexualised images of, I'll say young peoople, and those that are trying to drive them and the content off Steam.

Steam's problem is that it has a user base the size of a medium to large country and inadequate resources or desire to police everything anyone uploads. Thus it relies on reactive community policing - Steam users who see offensive content to report it.

Trying to police a community drawn from every corner of the world with widely different standards is a thankless task and all Steam can do is set out its rules and enforce them as best it can.

S.x.

That I would have a problem with for sure, there should not be any Pedo groups at all pure and simple, as for anything risque again- that is in the eye of the beholder and personal opinion, steam cannot be hypocritical in this respect. The personal issue I'm having is a blanket trollin' of screenshots with the sole purpose to illicit a ban, that is harassment and I specifically stated that fact.

One of the screenshots that got flagged by the troll is of Yellow Heart from one of the HyperDimension Neptunia series, she is fully clothed and nothing unsafe about it. As for steam, I'm very much against all the trolls and haters, I've been in that war too and would definitely fight harder against it, after all - a lot of that mess is again, trolls stirring the pot.

Anime games have a place on steam, the haters have just accept that fact, however - the adult games that have been appearing, I'm honestly on the fence about that and that is why the community hubs need to be changed, simply slapping an age check or an age restriction isn't going to solve that problem, and just punishing one or two people just because they got targetted by trolls just makes that problem worse not better.

The exact same problems happened with Huniepop, just 10x worse if you guys know that game... That is a very sexualized game and put the development on the radar for sure. But the fallout from that is still all around us today, and is still happening - it is so easy to troll people for that. So, as I said before - Steam needs to make some decisions about sexual content and nudity, I'm not alone in this - and many publications like kotaku have touched on this subject.

*Community content for this product may not be appropriate for all ages, or may not be appropriate for viewing at work.* Again, this isn't good enough the fact that more than half of the images in the community hub could be considered against the TOS and the uploaders penalized, these are the problems that steam needs to address to protect the end users who buy these games. Steam needs to figure this out, if it wants all the sales from the lewd games out there, then great - I'm all for that, but I think 'that' type of community needs to be segreatted from the rest.

[Matt]

What specifically do you want done or changed?

[Hatsune Miku]

Originalmente postado por Matt:

What specifically do you want done or changed?

Thats really the problem as well lol, right now - I can see a few positive changes that would help to protect users against harassment. But at the same time, people who have responded do have valid points as well. I want something that is fair to everyone, after all - I love steam, its a great platform but I don't want to be chased away either.

I think the slapping age restrictions, the age check and even putting "Community content for this product may not be appropriate for all ages, or may not be appropriate for viewing at work." on any products that may content nudity or content of that nature isn't helping steam. Its like with the on-going battle for anime games that have nudity or sexual content tags on them, that is almost like having a death wish for flagging trolls.

I would like to have at least some protection against flagging trolls, I'm not even remotely alone here in the anime type communities and the visual novel communities who often are targetted, as I said in a previous comment, I'd had friends give up on steam entirely due to on-going attacks and harrassment.

There is an on-going war between people who don't want to see any anime related games on steam at all, doesn't matter the game - Dragonball Z fighting games through to cute visual novels, haters are going to hate no matter what.

Also, thanks for the reply Matt :)

[ploppo]

Harassment cases have to be resolved quicker.

Someone threatening other users needs to be dealt with quicker.

There has to be a 2-way system on this. The whole idea of reporting someone and 'hoping' something is done is kind of pointless.

I reported someone 20 days ago who was talking about finding me and I wouldn't like it when they did - they had previously posted about finding and harming others - ie smashing skulls in - shutting people up for good.

Since I reported them, they have threatened to find and knock another Steam user senseless.

This user is clearly a loon and is on the loose on Steam - it is almost like they come onto Steam drunk/intoxicated, etc at times and at other times they behave normally - but that is not an excuse.

[Hatsune Miku]

Thank you steam moderators for looking at my ticket in a timely response, I firmly believed that the screenshots in question that I took were not against the TOS, and they have since been reinstated. I know, there is an obvious grey area now with this type of content on steam, and discussing it openly can only help everyone - after all, I wouldn't want my kids to look at any questionable content either and censorship exists for that very reason.

[Hatsune Miku]

Originalmente postado por ploppo:

Harassment cases have to be resolved quicker.

Someone threatening other users needs to be dealt with quicker.

There has to be a 2-way system on this. The whole idea of reporting someone and 'hoping' something is done is kind of pointless.

I reported someone 20 days ago who was talking about finding me and I wouldn't like it when they did - they had previously posted about finding and harming others - ie smashing skulls in - shutting people up for good.

Since I reported them, they have threatened to find and knock another Steam user senseless.

This user is clearly a loon and is on the loose on Steam - it is almost like they come onto Steam drunk/intoxicated, etc at times and at other times they behave normally - but that is not an excuse.

O.O; wow, yeah - that sounds really bad. That is something steam really doesn't want, not healthy at all. Have you blocked them?

The whole reporting someone just to attempt to get bans or account restrictions should be punished more, the person who was getting my account restricted and content removed was purely harrassing for no other reason because they could. But from what you said...I think I should consider myself lucky that I don't have a loonatic threatening me like that o.o

[Dagnabbit]

Originalmente postado por Tsukasa Hiiragi:

Yep, I've noticed that too. My Visual Novel communities are just like that - people there, even developers themselves upload racy screenshots. Most of the time, nobody cares until you get trolls flagging the content, that to me - is the problem. The trolls should not have that power.

Ah, now we get the heart of the matter.

Let me guess, OP, you had content removed for being inappropriate? People reporting inappropriate content are not trolls. You not liking them is one thing, but they are NOT breaking the rules. The individuals getting content removed for violating Community guidelines are the ones breaking the rules.

EDIT: Yep. This was an attention seeking thread:

Originalmente postado por Tsukasa Hiiragi:

Thank you steam moderators for looking at my ticket in a timely response, I firmly believed that the screenshots in question that I took were not against the TOS, and they have since been reinstated. I know, there is an obvious grey area now with this type of content on steam, and discussing it openly can only help everyone - after all, I wouldn't want my kids to look at any questionable content either and censorship exists for that very reason.

[Hatsune Miku]

Its not really so much an attention seeking thread at all, these are very real problems. The fact that Ploppo by the sounds of it has a crazy stalker O.o

I can totally see someone uploading decensored photos of games as being against the TOS, but everything else - I see as fair game whether someone likes it or not, its all personal opinions. The fact that some of my screenshots was restored proves that fact that flagging/reporting just because they can, isn't a good enough reason to abuse that.

I had content removed, so has friends too and people who I know in the communities. Its nothing new in fact, its part of the on-going war against visual novels on steam, sooner or later something needs to change in order to protect people who are not violating community guidelines.

[Яковлев Миша V12]

Originalmente postado por Hatsune Miku:

Honestly, I've been a member of steam for what...11...12 years now and I've seen this platform grow into the power house it is today, but unfortunately that comes with a price and that is the ever growing and abusive trolls base that Steam just wants to sweep under the carpet and pretend it just isn't there.

The fact right now, the trolls have all the power to actually hurt anyone, legitimate or not. Flagging Trolls, Review Bombers and everything else in-between, legitimate users have nearly no power at all - steam treats many users with contempt and mistrust it seems, often even siding with trolls just because, it seems like its just the easier option.

I've said it several years ago that steam needs to start changing its policies, and it desperately needs to update its platform too. Even the online publication "Kotaku" has touched upon this very subject by labelling them 'false postive trolls' with an article that was released in late Feb 2018.

We could get really down and dirty with many of the finer aspects of this, because lets face it - trollin' is going to happen no matter what, you're going to get bored kids or channers raiding profiles for 'easy pickings' and most of the time, that account owner can't do anything about it and you just can't pretend that problem is there, or ignore it - chances are; you're account is going to get compromised somehow.

Flagging Trolls, this honestly is a two part problem. Steam really needs to change its policies and protections for the consumers, especially with opening the flood gates to anime and even adult oriented games. Essentially, right now - the current rules are simply not good enough at all, the fact you could buy pretty any anime type of game that shows even a little bit of skin and that'll attract sjws, or trolls soo, Lets not even get into deeper issues of nudity here.

Case and point, If steam is going to sell adult based games or anime based games, the rules need to change as well. You can't sell the game, and then punish the player for taking in-game screen shots. Steam has to figure this out, right now - this aspect alone is a serious issue for me? I'm facing a 14 day ban because I attracted a few trolls who are flagging anime girl screenshots that are not even remotely NSFW...because? Trolls naturally, they can get away with it with abusing the system, if not - and face an account ban? No big deal because almost always trolls are Level 0 anyway, so no big deal if they get banned, they can just remake.

Essentially, if you buy a game on steam - you should be allowed to post screenshots/video or broadcast *everything* that game has to offer without exception, now that doesn't mean patches or uncensored content should be allowed but the end user should not be punished at all for buying a product on steam and right now, that isn't the case - this is a problem! Perhaps if steam isn't going to change on its policies, then games need to be properly vetted for any potential violations, but you know what? That'll never happen because we're talking money...its easy to take money from developers and publish games on steam and then just punish the end user for buying the game.

Screenshots themselves, really could do with a better system in place. Proper NSFW labels or even having screenshots set to friends only would be a start. But the best solution here is actually changing the system to prevent flagging trolls in general, the fact right now - I could personally flag thousands of screenshots and they would actually *get* removed and the account owners penalised speaks volumes on the scope of this problem. The fact right now, I could sift through thousands of Witcher 3 sex scenes and flag them just because I can? Again, is a problem - Steam needs to start working on its image, less hypocritical notions would be a start.

This needs to change, I think its about time serious account restrictions are placed on new accounts, and even accounts that are not vetted or under a certain level // # of games for example, and I'm not talking about bundle packs either, actual steam sales on the account, that would make people think twice before trolling and risk losing their own account priveleges.

Lets not even bother with all the other trolls - we all know they exist and its becoming a problem. GoG is starting to become a serious competitor now, and has a far less problem when it comes to issues like this; I'm not alone here in thinking this way, So - for people like me who have spent serious money over the years on steam, supported steam for many years - its about time, steam starts to protect its end user base better. I know, its not an easy problem to fix, but simply ignoring it and fixing the damage trolls cause here and there in the long run, is probably going to hurt everyone.

The fact that trolls could even respond to this tread to get it locked or derailed by the mods again, speaks volumes on the actual scale of the problem.

I know it’s a old topic, but i feel like i should post this.

basically, this is a new trolling tactic that's intended to subtly annoy with passive/aggressive & condescending remarks in hopes that you start to defend yourself.

if you end up getting tired of their passive condescending/patronizing attitudes, and start to get a bit rowdy, then YOU will get spam reported and probably banned right after, because all moderators systems (ESPECIALLY the ones on Steam) are ran by dumb AI algos. human mods are slowly falling off the map.

this form of trolling has arisen purely do to the rise of corporate power abuse & their automated moderation systems + woke agenda ToS shilling. back in the old era of the internet, trolls were more assertive and aggressive. nowadays, this is not the case.

defending yourself against an overly aggressive, ad hominem spewing individual is very manageable, ESPECIALLY if there's little-to-no actual moderation. however, having to now defend yourself against some troll who's completely out to get you, who's being disagreeable on all levels for no reason, sneakily condescending, and adds passively aggressive remarks to slowly inflame you all under an overly woke & sensitive AI moderation system is just bananas. they will never throw out direct insults. the more logical & sound you are, the worse their trolling gets. that's what feeds them = logical critical thinking. they understand that people who think critically tend to get annoyed by nonesense lol. so they will try to be as illogical as possible to annoy you.

they do all of this with intent to make you frustrated to the point of defending yourself so that when you do, then they'll report tf outta your post so that you can get banned. if you have a strong will and do not get annoyed, then you still lose... because these people work to discredit anything you stand for, and they have no issue arguing for the last word indefinitely.

this goes on in games like Overwatch & LoL or any other Esport games like Val/CSGO... this is also a huge issue on the Steam forums themselves and X(Twitter). just complete abuse of these new automated mod systems :(.

these new types of trolls love to look for complaint or suggestion posts on forum/discussions that are logical and sound in mind. they FEED off just posts alone. no matter how logical or correct a suggestion/complaint is they will look and go the extra mile to tear it down. they want you to use your logic, then start to defend your logic. after a certain point they are looking for you to break because their goal is to be as difficult as possible to get you to crack. once you crack... then bam, spam reports all on your account and you WILL get banned, even though they were being weird first... sadly these automatic automation systems dont care how the argument got started. these new systems just look for who threw the first insult. stay frosty!!

[miakisfan]

Originalmente postado por Hatsune Miku:

Honestly, I've been a member of steam for what...11...12 years now and I've seen this platform grow into the power house it is today, but unfortunately that comes with a price and that is the ever growing and abusive trolls base that Steam just wants to sweep under the carpet and pretend it just isn't there.

The fact right now, the trolls have all the power to actually hurt anyone, legitimate or not. Flagging Trolls, Review Bombers and everything else in-between, legitimate users have nearly no power at all - steam treats many users with contempt and mistrust it seems, often even siding with trolls just because, it seems like its just the easier option.

I've said it several years ago that steam needs to start changing its policies, and it desperately needs to update its platform too. Even the online publication "Kotaku" has touched upon this very subject by labelling them 'false postive trolls' with an article that was released in late Feb 2018.

We could get really down and dirty with many of the finer aspects of this, because lets face it - trollin' is going to happen no matter what, you're going to get bored kids or channers raiding profiles for 'easy pickings' and most of the time, that account owner can't do anything about it and you just can't pretend that problem is there, or ignore it - chances are; you're account is going to get compromised somehow.

Flagging Trolls, this honestly is a two part problem. Steam really needs to change its policies and protections for the consumers, especially with opening the flood gates to anime and even adult oriented games. Essentially, right now - the current rules are simply not good enough at all, the fact you could buy pretty any anime type of game that shows even a little bit of skin and that'll attract sjws, or trolls soo, Lets not even get into deeper issues of nudity here.

Case and point, If steam is going to sell adult based games or anime based games, the rules need to change as well. You can't sell the game, and then punish the player for taking in-game screen shots. Steam has to figure this out, right now - this aspect alone is a serious issue for me? I'm facing a 14 day ban because I attracted a few trolls who are flagging anime girl screenshots that are not even remotely NSFW...because? Trolls naturally, they can get away with it with abusing the system, if not - and face an account ban? No big deal because almost always trolls are Level 0 anyway, so no big deal if they get banned, they can just remake.

Essentially, if you buy a game on steam - you should be allowed to post screenshots/video or broadcast *everything* that game has to offer without exception, now that doesn't mean patches or uncensored content should be allowed but the end user should not be punished at all for buying a product on steam and right now, that isn't the case - this is a problem! Perhaps if steam isn't going to change on its policies, then games need to be properly vetted for any potential violations, but you know what? That'll never happen because we're talking money...its easy to take money from developers and publish games on steam and then just punish the end user for buying the game.

Screenshots themselves, really could do with a better system in place. Proper NSFW labels or even having screenshots set to friends only would be a start. But the best solution here is actually changing the system to prevent flagging trolls in general, the fact right now - I could personally flag thousands of screenshots and they would actually *get* removed and the account owners penalised speaks volumes on the scope of this problem. The fact right now, I could sift through thousands of Witcher 3 sex scenes and flag them just because I can? Again, is a problem - Steam needs to start working on its image, less hypocritical notions would be a start.

This needs to change, I think its about time serious account restrictions are placed on new accounts, and even accounts that are not vetted or under a certain level // # of games for example, and I'm not talking about bundle packs either, actual steam sales on the account, that would make people think twice before trolling and risk losing their own account priveleges.

Lets not even bother with all the other trolls - we all know they exist and its becoming a problem. GoG is starting to become a serious competitor now, and has a far less problem when it comes to issues like this; I'm not alone here in thinking this way, So - for people like me who have spent serious money over the years on steam, supported steam for many years - its about time, steam starts to protect its end user base better. I know, its not an easy problem to fix, but simply ignoring it and fixing the damage trolls cause here and there in the long run, is probably going to hurt everyone.

The fact that trolls could even respond to this tread to get it locked or derailed by the mods again, speaks volumes on the actual scale of the problem.

No, we don't. You know why?

Everyone has their own definition of what a troll is and 99% of the time is is simply because people don't agree with their opinions.

I prefer to think of the trolls in The Hobbit as the closest version to them.

I also tend to believe that since a good percentage of the people here are living in their mother's basement (yeah, yeah ... judging) and will never see the sun that would turn them to stone.

I think it is you that have some issues if you are classifying people as differing types of trolls. You might be taking this a little too seriously and need a visit to your friendly neighborhood therapist instead.

In any case, good luck joining the human race ... or at least stopping being a Liberal. It'll be better for your health.

[Crazy Tiger]

That's a serious necro.

[DerEider]

Yep ... That's one of them, for sure !!

[Steven]

This thread was quite old before the recent post, so we're locking it to prevent confusion.