Steam, We need to have a serious chat about trolls

[Hatsune Miku]

Honestly, I've been a member of steam for what...11...12 years now and I've seen this platform grow into the power house it is today, but unfortunately that comes with a price and that is the ever growing and abusive trolls base that Steam just wants to sweep under the carpet and pretend it just isn't there.

The fact right now, the trolls have all the power to actually hurt anyone, legitimate or not. Flagging Trolls, Review Bombers and everything else in-between, legitimate users have nearly no power at all - steam treats many users with contempt and mistrust it seems, often even siding with trolls just because, it seems like its just the easier option.

I've said it several years ago that steam needs to start changing its policies, and it desperately needs to update its platform too. Even the online publication "Kotaku" has touched upon this very subject by labelling them 'false postive trolls' with an article that was released in late Feb 2018.

We could get really down and dirty with many of the finer aspects of this, because lets face it - trollin' is going to happen no matter what, you're going to get bored kids or channers raiding profiles for 'easy pickings' and most of the time, that account owner can't do anything about it and you just can't pretend that problem is there, or ignore it - chances are; you're account is going to get compromised somehow.

Flagging Trolls, this honestly is a two part problem. Steam really needs to change its policies and protections for the consumers, especially with opening the flood gates to anime and even adult oriented games. Essentially, right now - the current rules are simply not good enough at all, the fact you could buy pretty any anime type of game that shows even a little bit of skin and that'll attract sjws, or trolls soo, Lets not even get into deeper issues of nudity here.

Case and point, If steam is going to sell adult based games or anime based games, the rules need to change as well. You can't sell the game, and then punish the player for taking in-game screen shots. Steam has to figure this out, right now - this aspect alone is a serious issue for me? I'm facing a 14 day ban because I attracted a few trolls who are flagging anime girl screenshots that are not even remotely NSFW...because? Trolls naturally, they can get away with it with abusing the system, if not - and face an account ban? No big deal because almost always trolls are Level 0 anyway, so no big deal if they get banned, they can just remake.

Essentially, if you buy a game on steam - you should be allowed to post screenshots/video or broadcast *everything* that game has to offer without exception, now that doesn't mean patches or uncensored content should be allowed but the end user should not be punished at all for buying a product on steam and right now, that isn't the case - this is a problem! Perhaps if steam isn't going to change on its policies, then games need to be properly vetted for any potential violations, but you know what? That'll never happen because we're talking money...its easy to take money from developers and publish games on steam and then just punish the end user for buying the game.

Screenshots themselves, really could do with a better system in place. Proper NSFW labels or even having screenshots set to friends only would be a start. But the best solution here is actually changing the system to prevent flagging trolls in general, the fact right now - I could personally flag thousands of screenshots and they would actually *get* removed and the account owners penalised speaks volumes on the scope of this problem. The fact right now, I could sift through thousands of Witcher 3 sex scenes and flag them just because I can? Again, is a problem - Steam needs to start working on its image, less hypocritical notions would be a start.

This needs to change, I think its about time serious account restrictions are placed on new accounts, and even accounts that are not vetted or under a certain level // # of games for example, and I'm not talking about bundle packs either, actual steam sales on the account, that would make people think twice before trolling and risk losing their own account priveleges.

Lets not even bother with all the other trolls - we all know they exist and its becoming a problem. GoG is starting to become a serious competitor now, and has a far less problem when it comes to issues like this; I'm not alone here in thinking this way, So - for people like me who have spent serious money over the years on steam, supported steam for many years - its about time, steam starts to protect its end user base better. I know, its not an easy problem to fix, but simply ignoring it and fixing the damage trolls cause here and there in the long run, is probably going to hurt everyone.

The fact that trolls could even respond to this tread to get it locked or derailed by the mods again, speaks volumes on the actual scale of the problem.

[Darren]

The Steam community is designed for 13+.

Games can be M or even R rated. This implies they have content that would not be acceptable to show to the community at large.

If you take screenshots of content that would be inappropriate they can be quite legitimately flagged as inappropriate.

I'm not saying your content was or was not appropriate (I have no idea I haven't looked at them) but it is definitely possible for games to have content that should not be on your profile.

[Hatsune Miku]

And that is the inherent problems for steam, because that can be massively abused in its own right with flagging trolls. Right now, I'm serious - I could flag thousands of screenshots from the Witcher series, or Huniepop...or the SakuraQuest series, literally you have a massive catalog of content that you could get flagged as inappropriate.

Some content I can legitimately see as being inappropriate, with some other content skirting the grey areas but that still doesn't mean this problem should be ignored, its high time that some changes are made.

Essentially I see this as an issue with steam, not the user here. If you purchase a game that is on steam, you should have the right to post in-game screenshots on your account - it is that simple, if you don't *have* that right, then you're not only facing censorship issues, but you have to wonder why and how that game 'is' allowed to be sold in the first place? So its okay to 'buy' the game, but not to play/display it? That alone to me....sounds pretty shady wouldn't you say?

Tagging is a major problem, it seems any tags that are labelled "Nudity" or "Sexual Content" are just asking for trolls, so steam needs to make a conscious decision here, if its totally fine with selling the product to make money, then it should be totally fine with the players showing off the goods, it really is that simple.

Steam definitely has this problem, its not a new problem at all if anything its growing worse each day especially as trolls learn the intricacies of the whole moderation process.

[Darren]

Not really you can buy and play any game you want. But you don't have freedom to post whatever you want on Steam. There is no freedom of speech or expression on a service run by a private company.

If Twitch decided that content from X game is inappropriate for the audience they are aiming for they don't have to let you steam it on their platform.

Similarly if Valve determines that a screenshot is inappropriate for the audience the Steam community is catered toward they will remove it. It doesn't matter if they sell the game.

[Hatsune Miku]

Your missing the point here, the fact I could flag thousands of screenshots and some being against the TOS and others are 'totally' fine, is a problem because it isn't what steam itself does, but the trolls who abuse that for personal enjoyment is, its almost hypocritical that an extremely violent screenshot could be totally fine, heck even deemed 'safe for work' but a anime girl fully clothed could be considered unsafe, its almost amusing.

Its gotten so out of hand, that the anime and even eroge community has to protect itself. In one corner you have the sjws, and another corner you have all the trolls and haters. Heck, even many fans themselves can be toxic to one another lol..

The 4 in-game screenshots in particular, 3 of them - I can see somewhat inappropriate but the 4th show does not violate any terms, it isn't even inappropriate but - its a big busty anime styled character that is fully clothed, still flagged. This is what I'm saying that the end user needs better protections, why should the user get punished for buying a game and then broadcasting or simply pressing that 'screenshot' button when something interesting pops up?

"Similarly if Valve determines that a screenshot is inappropriate for the audience the Steam community is catered toward they will remove it. It doesn't matter if they sell the game."

This part is the most humorous, because lets say any particular anime style game - that is for 'that' specific community, it doesn't matter - because it'll still get flagged by haters and trolls, because simply put, they can and as such, the reason why steam needs to be better.

What I'm saying is things do need to change, products that are rated M for instance, should have screenshots or community content that anyone under age could never see, but we all know that that you can easily lie about your age, kids do it all the time, its easy unfortunately.

Are there better methods? Absolutely! The problem is, after all - money, those better methods would mean less money, and that is always a bad thing when it comes to big business and that is unfortunately the part that makes me sad, because I know - at the end of the day - I don't think valve really does have its loyal users best interests, no matter how much we spend on products.

[ploppo]

This has certainly attracted my interest.

I don't have time to fully read this, but I hope the topic doesn't get deleted or locked before I do get time.

I can agree with the opening statment:

Honestly, I've been a member of steam for what...11...12 years now and I've seen this platform grow into the power house it is today, but unfortunately that comes with a price and that is the ever growing and abusive trolls base that Steam just wants to sweep under the carpet and pretend it just isn't there.

... but I have yet to read the rest.

One of my suspicions is Steam itself has not grown with the number of Steam users - ie, there could be an imbalance of not enough people to deal with trolls.

True Trolls to me are the toxic, abusive, swearing, threatening ones - not just people who are arguing etc.

There is a guy on Steam who makes threats to find and harm other users - smash their skulls in - Steam won't take him out. I find that odd - very odd - considering he has done it since I reported him.

[The End]

Originally posted by Tsukasa Hiiragi:

Steam, We need to have a serious chat about trolls

This again? the answer has to be the same as all the other times.
Don't post inappropriate pictures and you will not get into trouble.

Originally posted by Tsukasa Hiiragi:

Essentially, if you buy a game on steam - you should be allowed to post screenshots/video or broadcast *everything* that game has to offer without exception

No, the platform has to be "clean" a game is a personal experience, the platform is for all, and NSFW content has no place on it.

[Hatsune Miku]

Originally posted by ploppo:

This has certainly attracted my interest.

I don't have time to fully read this, but I hope the topic doesn't get deleted or locked before I do get time.

I can agree with the opening statment:

Honestly, I've been a member of steam for what...11...12 years now and I've seen this platform grow into the power house it is today, but unfortunately that comes with a price and that is the ever growing and abusive trolls base that Steam just wants to sweep under the carpet and pretend it just isn't there.

... but I have yet to read the rest.

One of my suspicions is Steam itself has not grown with the number of Steam users - ie, there could be an imbalance of not enough people to deal with trolls.

True Trolls to me are the toxic, abusive, swearing, threatening ones - not just people who are arguing etc.

There is a guy on Steam who makes threats to find and harm other users - smash their skulls in - Steam won't take him out. I find that odd - very odd - considering he has done it since I reported him.

Thanks, I have to agree with your statement. I think steam has unfortunately just drifted in the winds of a successful and commercially stable platform to deliver great products and discounts to the consumers, but at the same time - not address the same consumers needs, fears and concerns.

I enjoy using steam, its a great platform but the trolls should not be the ones inforcing the rules or inforcing policies or what is even considered "appropriate" - this has been abused for years now, and as time has passed steam has grown and grown, trolls used to be a minor annoyance - but now, it is an major problem.

Your missing the point Rockon, "No, the platform has to be "clean" a game is a personal experience, the platform is for all, and NSFW content has no place on it."

Anything can be flagged no matter what and it can get removed, even content that isn't NSFW. That term is in the eye of the beholder, one of my screenshots that was personally flagged and removed "was" not NSFW - not even close. But to other people, especially SJWs for example, just because its an anime character means its fair game for being flagged.

I would say personally, that the term NSFW is a misnomer - you shouldn't even be looking at steam if you are at work, I would personally say that the violent, especially graphic violence is way more unsafe than say, some cartoon girl bearing a little skin? There are limits and expectations in play, sure if you post something that is risque for example, then yes - I can see the point being made, but that still doesn't mean - the trolls and flaggers should be the steam police here.

[ploppo]

Oh, I thought it was just about abusive trolls - yeh, I agree that NSFW stuff should not be allowed. Anthing that is NSFW gives a free licence for people to swear at each other.

Another issue I have is Steam users blatantly swearing in thread titles - ie where just one letter is an asterisk. Some of the swearing is bad enough, but in thread titles is just not acceptable at all.

[ploppo]

The thing about trolls is everyone is told to Report, Block Ignore, etc - and will continue to be told this.

A problem of this is when Steam does not act or appears to have done nothing.

I am 20 days down the line and don't have a clue what Steam is going to do or what they might intend to do.

It is like the whole thing is broken.

[Hatsune Miku]

Trolls can do a lot of damage to anyone on steam, they wield a lot of power and that unfortunately is a problem and needs fixing. Level 0s for example, should have considerably restrictions placed on them, that would actually solve a significant amount of the problems in one go.

Chances are, someone who is Level 0 and is a new account is most likely a troll account. We all know this, this isn't anything new. So why steam still allow this?

[ploppo]

There was some female Steam user who was complaining about trolls and that Steam support would not help her. She had abuse going onto her profile wall thing.

I can remember she got the usual Report, Block, Ignore stuff coming at her - but her argument was that she had already done this.

I completely got her point - her point seeming to be, why are Steam not acting to protect users.

Other users are telling her to make her wall private, etc - ie don't let people post their publically and she is pretty much saying why should she do that just to stop trolls that Steam seem unable to stop.

[The End]

Originally posted by Tsukasa Hiiragi:

problem and needs fixing. Level 0s for example, should have considerably restrictions placed on them, that would actually solve a significant amount of the problems in one go.

Chances are, someone who is Level 0 and is a new account is most likely a troll account. We all know this, this isn't anything new. So why steam still allow this?

You are showing as level 0 exactly as everyone else with account set to friends only/private.

New limited accounts is heavily restricted as it is now.

Protips, stop tapdancing on that thin line between appropriate and not appropriate when you post pictures, and you will not get reported.

[Darren]

Originally posted by Tsukasa Hiiragi:

Trolls can do a lot of damage to anyone on steam, they wield a lot of power and that unfortunately is a problem and needs fixing. Level 0 for example, should have considerably restrictions placed on them, that would actually solve a significant amount of the problems in one go.

Most level 0 profiles are merely people who have friend-only or private profiles. There aren't that many level 0 profiles since a single $5 game purchase unlimits your account.

Personally I would imagine those that are active on the forums are even less likely to be actually level 0, and unless they are active on the forums how would they find accounts that they want to report.

I have no fear of people reporting my account, because I haven't done anything on it even remotely close to the boundaries of breaking the rules, let alone actually breaking them. If you have to worry about people reporting things it's because you are flirting too close to the boundaries of the rules.

[Hatsune Miku]

Originally posted by ploppo:

There was some female Steam user who was complaining about trolls and that Steam support would not help her. She had abuse going onto her profile wall thing.

I can remember she got the usual Report, Block, Ignore stuff coming at her - but her argument was that she had already done this.

I completely got her point - her point seeming to be, why are Steam not acting to protect users.

Other users are telling her to make her wall private, etc - ie don't let people post their publically and she is pretty much saying why should she do that just to stop trolls that Steam seem unable to stop.

I've had friends quit steam entirely due to trolls, racism and hate speech. This account has been raiding several times in the past due to trolls, I've seen it all unfortunately and each time, Steam is either mute, they don't care or the actual times they step in - often, its the trolls who are victorious.

I feel like, steam doesn't have a solid answer to combat some of the problems and as such, it gets frustrating. Nobody should have to feel like a prisoner, everybody should be able to enjoy this platform but over the years its become increasingly toxic. Back in 2015 when anime games started to appear frequently, the anime and visual novel community often got targetted, and still is.

There are many fixes, many solutions but nothing ever happens so we go around and around in a vicious cycle of abuse.

I'm only showing 0, because I switched my account to private again - most likely going to switch to friends only from here on out, as getting tired with all the problems within our communities. I'm not the only one - I know many in a similar situation.

[Hatsune Miku]

I can think of a broad range of fixes that wouldn't be hard at all to implement to fix the issues, proper vetting of any games that as nudity or sexual content, and adding in filters for said content so you take a screen shot of a particular scene, the filter can detect that and not allow it to be uploaded to the community, just for personal or friends only sharing.

That would be really easy to do, that would be actually a welcome change and would solve a huge amount of the flagging problems steam currently has.