Steam denies refund based on faking play time

[CrooksFrom*****AreFraudsters]

Steam denies refund for a game which could not be launched and when one launches that game, then play time counts as if one plays, but game does not even start and shows error message.

Game installation requires 40GB, so I let it run over night, in the morning however, it seems game was installed, but it stucked on installation of originSetup and all that time Steam seems to have counted the whole process as Play time and shows 12 hours play time, which is wrong.

After over 5 requests were denied telling me falsely that I played for 12 hours, I tested once again, clicked on launch game, game did not start and I got the error message, however, my play time suddenly changed to 13 hours without game even starting.

DO NOT BUY ANY PRODUCTS FROM THIEVES WHICH STEAM/VALVE SEEM TO BE. BECAUSE OF A LITTLE CASH ONE HAS TO GO AND REPORT THEFT/FRAUD TO POLICE

[Judgmental Amaterasu]

Cool story. PEBKAC strikes again.

[CrooksFrom*****AreFraudsters]

What is PEBKAC? I actually do not understand what you tried to say with your comment.

[Crazy Tiger]

Playtime is the time the .exe has been opened. Whatever happens, so whether you play or whether it crashes and remains active in task manager, isn't relevant. After all, Steam CANNOT see what actually happens when the .exe is opened. It's not spyware.

If an external launcher is used to download the game, then that launcher is the .exe launched and is active and obviously will count as playtime.

You can try a manual ticket.

[Overseer]

Another problem is that you seem to think that Valve will rip you off in 100% of the cases. While in fact you just encountered one single case that cost you a small amount of money. A case where any experienced user can easily argue is the standard risk of buying PC games in the grand scheme of compatibility.
Contact the publishers support.

[CrooksFrom*****AreFraudsters]

@Crazy Tiger
well, if Steam uses play time to deny refund for not launchable games, then play time does not change the fact the game can not be launched and therefore product can not be used at all. Not to mention that whatever the exe you claim is running, it was not the game. As last, if you say that play time equals execution time without any meaning of play time or if game really launched, then it is irrelevant what Steam claims if they delivered faulty product or better said never delivered a working product.

@Overseer
Valve can rip off as long as the law/execution does not come after them, the problem is most kids simply do not go to police to report fraud because they are lazy or simply spent time isnt worth it. For EU, there is clear law defined, which does vary for digitial products but in this case Steam never delivered a working product where game is not launchable.

If police or judge orders Steam to explain how this time is counted and if they can guarantee that play time is correct, they will need a proof for that, not just some buggy counter which also does not tell me which exact information and where and why it sends, this raises now also data protection law from EU, as Valve claims something and do not show any proof for it.

[captainwiseass]

Messaggio originale di CrooksFrom*****AreFraudsters:

What is PEBKAC?

"Problem Exists Between Keyboard and Chair."

[Crazy Tiger]

Messaggio originale di CrooksFrom*****AreFraudsters:

@Crazy Tiger
well, if Steam uses play time to deny refund for not launchable games, then play time does not change the fact the game can not be launched and therefore product can not be used at all. Not to mention that whatever the exe you claim is running, it was not the game. As last, if you say that play time equals execution time without any meaning of play time or if game really launched, then it is irrelevant what Steam claims if they delivered faulty product or better said never delivered a working product.

The thing is that a game not working for you does not equal a faulty or non-working game. That's a misconception often made by people. And if the game works without issue for other people, you'll have a hard time proving that it indeed is a faulty or non-working game.

And of course they cannot see what actually is happening. They only see whether the connected .exe starts, is active and when it closes.

As said, you can try a manual ticket. Find the purchase here: https://help.steampowered.com/en/wizard/HelpWithPurchase, use the "I have a question about this purchase" option and explain politely. If they still say "no", take that as a final answer.

Seeing how you posted in the German forums, I'm going to assume you are in Europe. According to EU directives, you waive your right to withdrawal when you download the game. While faulty products do require refunds, it's questionable that the game is actually a faulty product. You can go to the police, but I doubt you'll get anything from that. But if you do, keep us posted.

[CrooksFrom*****AreFraudsters]

Dear @Crazy Tiger you try to do things which are well defined by law. You seem to fail to understand basic logic, any product, be it a digital or not has to be delivered, with the same logic both, customer and reseller like Steam can argue with a lot of arguments, therefore there was a law created which specifies a lot what you write about.

Trying to paint other users as "expectting", "thinking" or whatever is something I do not understand, you get no gain from protecting Steam's behaviour which is against law. I also find your suggestion to create a ticket is a little bit silly, you assume I did not, but a ticket is there without any single reply from Support, which is additional reason for asking refund, there is simply no support at all for products sold here as well as there is no real contact person, instead you have to deal with bot system.

Next assumption is correct which you made, by you do need that assumption if I already pointed to EU law on official EU site.

Going to police to report a crime is the first thing that one has to do if you do not do it over civil court, in my case, it is cheaper to go to police than to pay lawyer additional € 100 per letter sent to Valve and then as addition to request that from court.

Hey, but thanks for actually supporing Valve and the way the sell those products, once again, I have no clue what you gain from it and your tips were sadly of no help

[Satoru]

The law clearly states in the EU

Your right of refusal expires the nano second you begin the download of a game

Meaning you now no longer have a leg to stand on with regards to any legal recourse for refunds

Meaning you are then subject to the voluntary refund policy of steam, which is less than 2 hours and less than 2 weeks since purchase

Since you don't meet the voluntary policy it was declined

Learn the EU law before claiming the law says something it does not

[my new friend]

How did you not notice the game was running for nearly 13 hours?

[Your Mom's Oshi]

Messaggio originale di my new friend:

How did you not notice the game was running for nearly 13 hours?

That's my question. Sounds like op may be straight up lying.

[Overseer]

Messaggio originale di CrooksFrom*****AreFraudsters:

Valve can rip off as long as the law/execution does not come after them, the problem is most kids simply do not go to police to report fraud because they are lazy or simply spent time isnt worth it.

See the problem is many people who ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up rush to the forums and think they can talk big about legal stuff while in reality there is no case. None of them ever came back and had a case.
There was no fraud. No crime. Police has nothing to do with it. Valve is acting well within its legal boundaries. And even if you plead and try to start a civil case the moment you reveal you let the process run for 12 hours it will be rejected because of grossly negligent acting.
I also don't know of any installation process that would automatically start the game which would then start the playtime counter. You are much better off to troubleshoot with the publisher. Or write it off to play at a later time once you have a system that can run it.

[CrooksFrom*****AreFraudsters]

@Satoru you clearly speak nonsense, there wouldnt be courts if only one lawyer is correct, you do not try to help and you do not try to work out why the hell they steal money by selling products which even do not launch, as next you claim that one lie covers the other in saying that I can claim to voluntary policy which seem to be changed for each request separately, when things like that are not clear and Valve cant prove actually that everything was understandable and visible, then even signed contract is not guilty. So far, once again, laws in EU are clearly defined to actually void this lenghty process of word against word. Once again, claiming wrong things here to actually take side of Steam is not understandable to me, are you in any way involved with steam? Why the desire to have other customers suffer on "bad habbits" of a company?

@my new friend
I actually did not notice it first at all, it first just after first request for refund was denied telling me this nonsense, in fact, 12 hours was installation time and it never installed the product completly, game could not even start (like some claim exe), steam then counts origin client setup as running a game.

After I asked few times, also support, how the hell they get to 12 hours and that this can not be correct, I got no reply at all. Then I clicked once again on launch button, game did not launch, with origin error. After that launch my playtime suddenly raised to 13 hours, then I looked in steam client it says 12.7 (which they seem to round up to 13) and before it was 12 (meaning probably >12.5, where in fact one click to launch causes it seems at least 0.2 hours of playtime, it seems even not be in seconds. 0.2 hours is 12 minutes, but launch and error took maybe a minute or max 2.

By all of that, I can not trust steam and refund system is a bot system, I guess this is also an legal issue if Steam operates in EU without actually having locally in each country representative office which one can contact for support and call it. For Valve it is too expesive to have those services it seems or it is too expensive for them to fight bots or fake call, whatever it is, they rip off their own customers like in my case making sure I never ever spend a cent.

[Crazy Tiger]

Messaggio originale di CrooksFrom*****AreFraudsters:

Dear @Crazy Tiger you try to do things which are well defined by law. You seem to fail to understand basic logic, any product, be it a digital or not has to be delivered, with the same logic both, customer and reseller like Steam can argue with a lot of arguments, therefore there was a law created which specifies a lot what you write about.

Trying to paint other users as "expectting", "thinking" or whatever is something I do not understand, you get no gain from protecting Steam's behaviour which is against law. I also find your suggestion to create a ticket is a little bit silly, you assume I did not, but a ticket is there without any single reply from Support, which is additional reason for asking refund, there is simply no support at all for products sold here as well as there is no real contact person, instead you have to deal with bot system.

Next assumption is correct which you made, by you do need that assumption if I already pointed to EU law on official EU site.

Going to police to report a crime is the first thing that one has to do if you do not do it over civil court, in my case, it is cheaper to go to police than to pay lawyer additional € 100 per letter sent to Valve and then as addition to request that from court.

Hey, but thanks for actually supporing Valve and the way the sell those products, once again, I have no clue what you gain from it and your tips were sadly of no help

I don't support Valve, I'm just pointing out how things are. I haven't even given my personal stance on things. But you are wrong on how the EU directives work.

I point out the manual ticket because many people only use the "I want a refund" option. That one is automated and only checks for 2 things: 2 weeks ownership and 2 hours playtime. Outside that, you get denied and you can try a manual ticket as I provided.
And indeed, I assume you didn't do the manual ticket because, again, many people don't actually try that method. But if trying to help you is apparently a bad thing, fine by me.

Your hostility is unnecessary, but quite telling.

[Zekiran]

Even if you "left it on to download the game" overnight....

Guess what?

You left the game on. Overnight.

Thus: the game was played. Period.

The executable for the game running is the ONLY qualifier that the game gets its time seen by steam.

I'm curious as to know what game you are talking about because downloading a game DOES NOT play the game nor count toward that time.