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Tealius Maximus 4 ABR 2019 a las 2:58 a. m.
Review bombing is utterly stupid.
Good games are good games. Review bombing good games because of Epic Games just being a bit scummy isn't doing anything. I don't think companies give a damn about what reviews they get on Steam like 3 years after the games got publish and became successful.
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Mostrando 31-45 de 78 comentarios
Start_Running 5 ABR 2019 a las 7:48 a. m. 
Publicado originalmente por Ness_and_Sonic|Bye Reviews.:
Publicado originalmente por Start_Running:

Which goes back to hurting as opposed to helping.
Hurting the developers until they fix what you perceive to be an issue.
I call it tough love. Companies can't do whatever they feel like. Review bombs are a natural result of them thinking they can.
Ever notice that 'tough love' and 'abusive behaviour' tend to be the same thing?
By your own logic the recent change to the review system could be seen as STeam applying 'tough-love' to the users to make them better people and encourage better reviews.
Pharaoh 5 ABR 2019 a las 8:02 a. m. 
As I have learned from previous social media experience *looking at you reddit* witch hunting gets us bloody nowhere and only works to inflame the situation
Última edición por Pharaoh; 5 ABR 2019 a las 8:03 a. m.
Ness_and_Sonic 5 ABR 2019 a las 8:02 a. m. 
Publicado originalmente por Start_Running:
Publicado originalmente por Ness_and_Sonic|Bye Reviews.:
I call it tough love. Companies can't do whatever they feel like. Review bombs are a natural result of them thinking they can.
Ever notice that 'tough love' and 'abusive behaviour' tend to be the same thing?
By your own logic the recent change to the review system could be seen as STeam applying 'tough-love' to the users to make them better people and encourage better reviews.
If you read the replies to the announcement, you'd see it's not working too well for Steam. However, would you rather people write reviews for games on Steam and tell them to buy the console versions used instead? Or how about writing a review claiming they got a high end computer and the game wouldn't start instead of claiming what's really bothering them?
Última edición por Ness_and_Sonic; 5 ABR 2019 a las 8:13 a. m.
Start_Running 5 ABR 2019 a las 8:11 a. m. 
Publicado originalmente por Ness_and_Sonic|Bye Reviews.:
Publicado originalmente por Start_Running:
Ever notice that 'tough love' and 'abusive behaviour' tend to be the same thing?
By your own logic the recent change to the review system could be seen as STeam applying 'tough-love' to the users to make them better people and encourage better reviews.
If you read the replies to the announcement, you'd see it's not working too well for Steam. However, people write reviews for games on Steam and tell them to buy the console versions used instead?

And how does that actually work. I mean for one it assumes the person has the console to begin with and generally if they did they wouldn't be getting it on PC. and if its a game not on console then its sorta pointless and I suspect the unhelpful downfvotes would bury such reviews quickly.

The thing is , and anyone who's been on steam long enough knows this, anything Valve implements for the greater good always incurs a backlash from the very people they're helping.

Tradeholds - Backlash
Refunds - Backlash
2FA - Backlash
Hiding DOwnvotes on reviews - Huge Backlash
Cancelling Greenligh - Backlash.
Removing a game - Backlash
Not removing a game - Backlash

The list goes on and on.
The only constant is that no matter what valve does or does not do there will be backlash, so if all actions yield backlash then backlash becomes a non issue and you do what you can to shape the platform in a way that actually promotes and helps the silent majority. You know the people that just want to find games, buy games, and not get caught up in the internet outrage of the week

Ness_and_Sonic 5 ABR 2019 a las 8:22 a. m. 
Some I can get.
Waiting to trade or sell something means you may have someone list it for a lower price than you by the time it gets listed.
Great way to cost companies money when they pull a Sonic Mania... had Sega not tried to undermine the refund period with Sonic 1 and a two week delay.
I get 2FA. We can't assume everyone has access to a phone. I don't have a smart phone, for example.
Can't blame hiding downvotes. The same thing happened with No Man's Sky. It's almost like hiding negative feedback is a bad idea. In fact, you'd draw more attention to the issue by doing so. I feel like there's a name for that, but I can't remember what it's called off hand.
Can't blame people for being upset over canceling greenlight since it allowed them to actually vote on games they want to see.
Metro Exodus had it coming as removing it to make it exclusive was just tempting fate. Deep Silver would have been better off just doing what Valve's doing with Half-Life 3.
That one from last month? The nature of the game was kind of pushing it. I will admit I don't know if it had an ESRB rating, but if it did, something tells me it would be AO. There's a reason console makers like Nintendo and Sony distance themselves from that rating. AO games should be avoided or at the very least considered on a case by case base.
Última edición por Ness_and_Sonic; 5 ABR 2019 a las 8:29 a. m.
Start_Running 5 ABR 2019 a las 8:48 a. m. 
Publicado originalmente por Ness_and_Sonic|Bye Reviews.:
Some I can get.
Waiting to trade or sell something means you may have someone list it for a lower price than you by the time it gets listed.
Yeah but you have to keep in mind as to the reason why. The why being because people were stupidly trading away their items as gifts and then complaining that they were scammed.

Great way to cost companies money when they pull a Sonic Mania... had Sega not tried to undermine the refund period with Sonic 1 and a two week delay.
They gave out a freebie and that's considered 'undermiuning' interesting. Should game companies stop giving away stuff as bonus content then?

I get 2FA. We can't assume everyone has access to a phone. I don't have a smart phone, for example.
And at this point in world history that's a matter of choice, not a lack of options. If you can afford to buy games on Steam, you can afford a smartphone.

Can't blame hiding downvotes. The same thing happened with No Man's Sky. It's almost like hiding negative feedback is a bad idea. In fact, you'd draw more attention to the issue by doing so. I feel like there's a name for that, but I can't remember what it's called off hand.
Reverse psychology.
People will generally want to do the thing you tekll them not to do.

Can't blame people for being upset over canceling greenlight since it allowed them to actually vote on games they want to see.
And they sold those votes cheap.

Are you noticing the trend that most of these things come about as a result of the gaming community essentially ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ in the milk bucket. Would any of those actions need to be taken if there weren't bad actors out there essentially weaponizing or abusing the system to the detriment of others?

No.

And the same goes true for the recent review change.

Metro Exodus had it coming as removing it to make it exclusive was just tempting fate. Deep Silver would have been better off just doing what Valve's doing with Half-Life 3.
That one from last month? The nature of the game was kind of pushing it. I will admit I don't know if it had an ESRB rating, but if it did, something tells me it would be AO. There's a reason console makers like Nintendo and Sony distance themselves from that rating. AO games should be avoided or at the very least considered on a case by case base.

The reason for the distance is because of the stores that have to sell the games. I mean lets be honest. Nentrendo is hardly the one to call as being naughty shy given some of the games that proudly bore the nintendo seal of approval.

And as for SOny.. have you noticed that almost every time a JRPG gets ported over they have to change the ages and the outfits of some of the characters?

The reason AO games aren't so much of a thing is the same reason R movies aren't much of a thing. Because it reduces the number of places that you can deliver your product through.
Ness_and_Sonic 5 ABR 2019 a las 9:45 a. m. 
Publicado originalmente por Start_Running:
Yeah but you have to keep in mind as to the reason why. The why being because people were stupidly trading away their items as gifts and then complaining that they were scammed.

They gave out a freebie and that's considered 'undermiuning' interesting. Should game companies stop giving away stuff as bonus content then?

And at this point in world history that's a matter of choice, not a lack of options. If you can afford to buy games on Steam, you can afford a smartphone.

Reverse psychology.
People will generally want to do the thing you tekll them not to do.

Are you noticing the trend that most of these things come about as a result of the gaming community essentially ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ in the milk bucket. Would any of those actions need to be taken if there weren't bad actors out there essentially weaponizing or abusing the system to the detriment of others?

The reason AO games aren't so much of a thing is the same reason R movies aren't much of a thing. Because it reduces the number of places that you can deliver your product through.
Happens with PSN as well in a sense. "My account was hacked!" usually translates to "I gave my details to strangers."

The way it worked did undermine the refund period. The delay was two weeks and Sonic 1 was given on the day it was supposed to be released. The steam refund period is 2 weeks. Sonic 1 set the refund period off early. By the time it was over, Steam was declining refunds because of Sonic 1 setting it off.

I never needed one. Stuck with a landline.

And that's why it's a bad idea to try to cover stuff up. You draw more attention to the problem. Another good example would be the Fat Axl meme. I never knew about it until it was on TV.

Things like bait and swaps, adding ads and manipulating the game's rewards system to get them to view them, games becoming casinos, and not selling games on store fronts you previous agreed to at launch is a milk bucket? I don't buy that for a second. Companies are pulling as many lame stunts as think they can get away. I'm thankful review bombs are a thing as they act as a way to inform consumers. I'd prefer them to be on by default so consumers can read this stuff and do research on these issues and make up their own minds rather than take a company's word that there's no problem and that you should hand them your money just because they made a game. Letting people know about this stuff is not abuse so much as informing. Claiming games are broken garbage on a high end system instead of talking about the controversy surrounding a game would be abuse, though... Well, unless there was a situation where the game broke thanks to a Windows update like Alone in the Dark the New Nightmare did or something like that, then that's fair game as well.

I have to wonder what would happen if laws were passed where games with loot boxes had to be rated AO because of gambling. Would AO rated games become more common on consoles or would loot boxes die out?
Última edición por Ness_and_Sonic; 5 ABR 2019 a las 9:48 a. m.
Crashed 5 ABR 2019 a las 12:15 p. m. 
Publicado originalmente por sonic65101:
Publicado originalmente por Ness_and_Sonic|Bye Reviews.:
Review bombs aren't some act of god. A company had to do something to trigger it. Reviews bombing was a way to stick it to these companies by hurting their sales for actions and couldn't just be deleted and ignored like forum posts.
Review bombing is malicious abuse of the review system. You are supposed to be reviewing the game, not the people who made it.
He has abused the review system in order to destroy the reputation of at least one game because he didn't like the DRM. If you zoom in his profile picture you will see he has made it a point to openly argue about moderation here.

He also complains about the refund policy because he misused that too, as part of his relationship to less savory parts of the Internet.
Última edición por Crashed; 5 ABR 2019 a las 12:17 p. m.
Ness_and_Sonic 5 ABR 2019 a las 12:34 p. m. 
Publicado originalmente por Crashed:
Publicado originalmente por sonic65101:
Review bombing is malicious abuse of the review system. You are supposed to be reviewing the game, not the people who made it.
He has abused the review system in order to destroy the reputation of at least one game because he didn't like the DRM. If you zoom in his profile picture you will see he has made it a point to openly argue about moderation here.

He also complains about the refund policy because he misused that too, as part of his relationship to less savory parts of the Internet.
Actually, abuse of the system would be claiming the game fried your computer, which is something I didn't do. In fact, you're the one who tried to claim that something I found on my PC was the result of a virus. Also, if you have an issue with my avatar, you can just tell me you're sorry for all your accusations that would have resulted in you being community banned if I wasn't willing to allow you a chance to redeem yourself.

So I'm supposed to support bait and swaps, despite them being an illegal business practice? Do you endorse companies that commit criminal activities like bait and swaps? Is that the kind of sites you visit? The kind that endorse corporations cheating customers with illegal business practices like bait and swaps and illegal gambling?
Última edición por Ness_and_Sonic; 5 ABR 2019 a las 12:51 p. m.
Crystal Sharrd 5 ABR 2019 a las 1:10 p. m. 
Publicado originalmente por Crashed:
Publicado originalmente por sonic65101:
Review bombing is malicious abuse of the review system. You are supposed to be reviewing the game, not the people who made it.
He has abused the review system in order to destroy the reputation of at least one game because he didn't like the DRM. If you zoom in his profile picture you will see he has made it a point to openly argue about moderation here.

He also complains about the refund policy because he misused that too, as part of his relationship to less savory parts of the Internet.
IK, I've seen his posts on the Sonic Mania forums

Publicado originalmente por Ness_and_Sonic|Bye Reviews.:
Publicado originalmente por Crashed:
He has abused the review system in order to destroy the reputation of at least one game because he didn't like the DRM. If you zoom in his profile picture you will see he has made it a point to openly argue about moderation here.

He also complains about the refund policy because he misused that too, as part of his relationship to less savory parts of the Internet.
Actually, abuse of the system would be claiming the game fried your computer, which is something I didn't do. In fact, you're the one who tried to claim that something I found on my PC was the result of a virus. Also, if you have an issue with my avatar, you can just tell me you're sorry for all your accusations that would have resulted in you being community banned if I wasn't willing to allow you a chance to redeem yourself.

So I'm supposed to support bait and swaps, despite them being an illegal business practice? Do you endorse companies that commit criminal activities like bait and swaps? Is that the kind of sites you visit? The kind that endorse corporations cheating customers with illegal business practices like bait and swaps and illegal gambling?
Valve doesn't require publishers to disclose the fact that a game uses thrird-party DRM. And yes, baiting and switching is illegal, but that's not what happened. Bait and switch is "the action of advertising goods which are an apparent bargain, with the intention of substituting inferior or more expensive goods". Even if SEGA did add Denuvo at the last second, they have the right to protect their intellectual property from thieves.
Última edición por Crystal Sharrd; 5 ABR 2019 a las 1:18 p. m.
Crashed 5 ABR 2019 a las 1:19 p. m. 
Publicado originalmente por Ness_and_Sonic|Bye Reviews.:
Publicado originalmente por Crashed:
He has abused the review system in order to destroy the reputation of at least one game because he didn't like the DRM. If you zoom in his profile picture you will see he has made it a point to openly argue about moderation here.

He also complains about the refund policy because he misused that too, as part of his relationship to less savory parts of the Internet.
Actually, abuse of the system would be claiming the game fried your computer, which is something I didn't do. In fact, you're the one who tried to claim that something I found on my PC was the result of a virus. Also, if you have an issue with my avatar, you can just tell me you're sorry for all your accusations that would have resulted in you being community banned if I wasn't willing to allow you a chance to redeem yourself.

So I'm supposed to support bait and swaps, despite them being an illegal business practice? Do you endorse companies that commit criminal activities like bait and swaps? Is that the kind of sites you visit? The kind that endorse corporations cheating customers with illegal business practices like bait and swaps and illegal gambling?
What accusations?

Also, you forget to mention that you did make a claim that almost amounted to computer damage when you claimed a malicious folder appeared that nobody else has seen happen when playing the game.
Última edición por Crashed; 5 ABR 2019 a las 1:20 p. m.
Ness_and_Sonic 5 ABR 2019 a las 1:33 p. m. 
Publicado originalmente por Crashed:
Publicado originalmente por Ness_and_Sonic|Bye Reviews.:
Actually, abuse of the system would be claiming the game fried your computer, which is something I didn't do. In fact, you're the one who tried to claim that something I found on my PC was the result of a virus. Also, if you have an issue with my avatar, you can just tell me you're sorry for all your accusations that would have resulted in you being community banned if I wasn't willing to allow you a chance to redeem yourself.

So I'm supposed to support bait and swaps, despite them being an illegal business practice? Do you endorse companies that commit criminal activities like bait and swaps? Is that the kind of sites you visit? The kind that endorse corporations cheating customers with illegal business practices like bait and swaps and illegal gambling?
What accusations?
Does this guide look familiar?:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=143962136
I've seen you imply something that you shouldn't have been implying several times. If you don't want to apologize, I suppose I could report the rule violation next time I notice it. I do have another avatar ready for a change.

Anyway, getting back on topic, I honestly see the developer/publisher's actions as a good reason not to recommend games. By purchasing stuff, you're putting trust into not just the game, but the company that made to not sabotage it in the future some how. Trust that they will stay true to their word, that they won't pull bait and swaps, that they won't break gambling laws, etc. Trust isn't something that should be given out like candy on Halloween, it's earned and can lost based on the developer/publisher's business choices. That's why it's an important factor of this.
Publicado originalmente por sonic65101:
Valve doesn't require publishers to disclose the fact that a game uses thrird-party DRM. And yes, baiting and switching is illegal, but that's not what happened. Bait and switch is "the action of advertising goods which are an apparent bargain, with the intention of substituting inferior or more expensive goods". Even if SEGA did add Denuvo at the last second, they have the right to protect their intellectual property from thieves.
How they do it is just as important. In fact, that lack of disclosure led me to believe it wouldn't have it when I preordered. A classic bait and switch for you.
Última edición por Ness_and_Sonic; 5 ABR 2019 a las 1:35 p. m.
Crashed 5 ABR 2019 a las 1:47 p. m. 
Didn't you have access to stolen emails that suggested Sega was going to use Denuvo? Bait d switch would be them advertising that it was DRM free then changing their minds.

You say I accuse you of something yet you don't say what.
Última edición por Crashed; 5 ABR 2019 a las 1:50 p. m.
Ness_and_Sonic 5 ABR 2019 a las 1:57 p. m. 
Publicado originalmente por Crashed:
Didn't you have access to stolen emails that suggested Sega was going to use Denuvo? Bait d switch would be them advertising that it was DRM free then changing their minds.

You say I accuse you of something yet you don't say what.
Nope. Just a rumor going around. Also, the lack of that notice was an advertisement it wouldn't have it.

I gave you a hint with that guide and saying you shouldn't even be implying it. In fact, the things you've been implying could get you perma-banned for implying them according to that guide. Does that help you figure out what I'm asking you to say you're sorry for and to stop doing?

Anyway, as I've stated, a lot of this backlash could be avoided just by consulting the fans before making controversial decisions about their opinions instead of actually doing things, then letting them know after you've done them. In fact, it makes more sense to consult fans when in doubt as they're the ones you're trying to sell the product in question to, so they're where the return on investment comes from.
Última edición por Ness_and_Sonic; 5 ABR 2019 a las 2:00 p. m.
Crashed 5 ABR 2019 a las 2:03 p. m. 
Publicado originalmente por Ness_and_Sonic|Bye Reviews.:
Anyway, as I've stated, a lot of this backlash could be avoided just by consulting the fans before making controversial decisions about their opinions instead of actually doing things, then letting them know after you've done them. In fact, it makes more sense to consult fans when in doubt as they're the ones you're trying to sell the product in question to, so they're where the return on investment comes from.
You mean caving in to the misinformation spread by the "scene"?
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Publicado el: 4 ABR 2019 a las 2:58 a. m.
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